233 replies to this topic

[C0untZer0]

Don't mess with Sasquatch

[RockerXX]

Oldman, on 23 May 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

It happened to me! More like 7 times in 3 yrs. BUT, that was 30 yrs. ago.

It has never happened to me personally, but I do have a few friends who would have met the arrest number in their younger days...  A few of them would get arrested all the time for being at the wrong party, being in the wrong company, trespassing (4x4 mudding in vacant corn fields), suspicion of this or that, all stuff that never resulted in any formal charges or convictions but did result in arrest...

And although it wouldn't count here, there was one summer that I couldn't go 7 days without being pulled over by the police for something, sometimes the same cop twice in the same day, never got a single ticket from any of those pull overs though...

Edited by RockerXX, Today, 10:11 PM.

[TheDaveFactor]

pdpsc, on 23 May 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

RockerXX, on 23 May 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Federal Farmer, on 23 May 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

What if Bigfoot sneaks into the system and fabricates arrest records for me?  This seems like a gaping hole!  Ripe for abuse...not only for Bigfoot but for Yeti and Space Aliens.

I have witnessed and been party to police fabricating evidence, claiming to have evidence they didn't all while trying to frame me for something I never had any part in...  There were so many lies and fabrications of evidence in my Grand Jury indictment is was comical for me to read, so call me a skeptic all you want  but I have seen the ugly abuse of rouge police from the front row...

I too have seen it happen to someone once, maybe twice to same person in their lifetime, but I've never seen it happen 5 times in 7 years to the same person.  If you are arrested 5 times in 7 years and have no convictions, you have either got (1) some bad cops with a real vendetta against you; (2) some very incompetent cops; (3) some very incompetent prosecutors; (4) a perfect storm of one, two and/or three.

Or you continually find yourself in the position of being involved in gang like activity that keeps getting you arrested but the charges are dismissed by the prosecutor...  Hmmm...  Funny that that never happens to me...  Or my friends...  Or my neighbors...  Just the GANG guys...

[Elderberry]

RockerXX, on 23 May 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have witnessed and been party to police fabricating evidence, claiming to have evidence they didn't all while trying to frame me for something I never had any part in... There were so many lies and fabrications of evidence in my Grand Jury indictment is was comical for me to read, so call me a skeptic all you want  but I have seen the ugly abuse of rouge police from the front row...

RockerXX, on 23 May 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

It has never happened to me personally, but I do have a few friends who would have met the arrest number in their younger days...  A few of them would get arrested all the time for being at the wrong party, being in the wrong company, trespassing (4x4 mudding in vacant corn fields), suspicion of this or that, all stuff that never resulted in any formal charges or convictions but did result in arrest...

And although it wouldn't count here, there was one summer that I couldn't go 7 days without being pulled over by the police for something, sometimes the same cop twice in the same day, never got a single ticket from any of those pull overs though...

So which is it...??  It either did or did not happen to you...  

And frankly, I'm not the least surprised.

Edited by Elderberry, Today, 10:20 PM.

[BShawn]

RockerXX, on 23 May 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Federal Farmer, on 23 May 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

What if Bigfoot sneaks into the system and fabricates arrest records for me?  This seems like a gaping hole!  Ripe for abuse...not only for Bigfoot but for Yeti and Space Aliens.

I have witnessed and been party to police fabricating evidence, claiming to have evidence they didn't all while trying to frame me for something I never had any part in...  There were so many lies and fabrications of evidence in my Grand Jury indictment is was comical for me to read, so call me a skeptic all you want  but I have seen the ugly abuse of rouge police from the front row...

I do agree with those 100%

-NO searching of juvenille records
-NO basing decisions on mere arrests, ONLY actual CONVICTIONS

Edited by BShawn, Today, 10:24 PM.

[ca22151]

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I'd like a little more info on the drivers license wording. Not wearing a tin hat for this but..,

A corrected DL/State ID is $10, renewals are more. But to reissue an address change/lost card on the Conceal Carry permit was $75.


Also, with a traffic ticket, you give your License in mos cases as bond in lieu of cash. How would they collect bond in this case now? I normally don't carry cash to post. I haven't been pulled over in about 8 years for tinted windows, but I still lost my license as bond.


I'm not good at legalese so be easy if Im misinterpreting this.

Interesting point about the DL as bond.  Bet they didn't think of that.

[ca22151]

.

Edited by ca22151, Today, 10:36 PM.

[spu69]

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Livewire18, on 23 May 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I'd like a little more info on the drivers license wording. Not wearing a tin hat for this but..,

A corrected DL/State ID is $10, renewals are more. But to reissue an address change/lost card on the Conceal Carry permit was $75.


Also, with a traffic ticket, you give your License in mos cases as bond in lieu of cash. How would they collect bond in this case now? I normally don't carry cash to post. I haven't been pulled over in about 8 years for tinted windows, but I still lost my license as bond.


I'm not good at legalese so be easy if Im misinterpreting this.

The section about dl's is to give the ISP access to your DL photos and info for issuing the permits. Just like using your DL photo and signature for your foid.

Are you sure about that?

To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

I've reread it and reread it and still can't see where it states its only to access the digital image through the SOS. This isn't a sneaky thing or what have you, but it definitely will be conflicting with fees for having your DL and State ID updated. Might be an oversight, but it definitely says they'll want to put a designation on the DL/ID for being able to own and/or carry concealed.

They talk about putting together a task force to explore it.

[Hoffsoft]

The more I read the mental health wording, the more screwed up I think it is.  I THINK it says that if you've ever had mental health treatment (fuzzy definition of "facility" and "outpatient"), you have to certify you're not a danger to yourself or others.  Can somebody explain this language to me?  I think just about everybody who has ever seen a doctor about anything anytime in their life now rates a FOID revocation.

[Elderberry]

I think it is fair to say the legislature is being overly zealous and erring on the side of caution on this part of the bill....  Well, many parts of the bill for that matter...  The pattern in most states is to over-react when first passing a cc law and ease things as time goes on.  I would anticipate that here too....

And on that weed -- the law does say it can be considered "in your control" even if it isn't in your car.  I suppose the leo thought the guy pitched it.  I once had a friend busted for an open beer that was sitting on the hood of his car -- it was not his beer -- but, unfortunately, he was drunk and took the hit for the open beer AND a dui arrest.  He pleaded out for the open beer....

Sometimes life isn't fair....

Edit:  I'm referring to BShawn's post....

Edited by Elderberry, Today, 10:31 PM.

[cls74]

ca22151, on 23 May 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I'd like a little more info on the drivers license wording. Not wearing a tin hat for this but..,

A corrected DL/State ID is $10, renewals are more. But to reissue an address change/lost card on the Conceal Carry permit was $75.


Also, with a traffic ticket, you give your License in mos cases as bond in lieu of cash. How would they collect bond in this case now? I normally don't carry cash to post. I haven't been pulled over in about 8 years for tinted windows, but I still lost my license as bond.


I'm not good at legalese so be easy if Im misinterpreting this.

Interesting point about the DL as bond.  Bet they didn't think of that.

It's being looked into, but yeah it's definitely a technical glitch that needs addressed.  The bond issue could be remedied with having bothe DL and ID. But it would essentially make a DL/ID correction or replacement cost $75.

[ca22151]

Well, they caught one thing that made things a little easier previously - w/Amend 1, in order to seek a CC license, you either: 1) had to have a FOID card already issued to you; or 2)  be eligible to have a FOID card, i.e., you didn't actually have to have a FOID card issued and in force before you could submit your application.

Now after Amend 2 it seems (reasonably) clear that you have to have a FOID card issued to you before you could submit a CC license application.  Sigh. Thought that was too good to be true.  Would have made life easier for quite a few people.  But, cie la vie, mine is good for nine + years.  Sounds like they're going to fold the FOID & CC into one card anyways, which would make a lot of sense.

I don't have the eye strength to read through the whole bill again, I assume if any GFZs were removed by Amend. 2 I'll see the white smoke coming out of the chimney pipe, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by ca22151, Today, 10:35 PM.

[Elderberry]

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part    To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

[cls74]

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part    To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

Section 92

[BShawn]

ca22151, on 23 May 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Well, they caught one thing that made things a little easier previously - w/Amend 1, in order to seek a CC license, you either: 1) had to have a FOID card already issued to you; or 2)  be eligible to have a FOID card, i.e., you didn't actually have to have a FOID card issued and in force before you could submit your application.

Now after Amend 2 it seems (reasonably) clear that you have to have a FOID card issued to you before you could submit a CC license application.  Sigh. Thought that was too good to be true.  Would have made life easier for quite a few people.  But, cie la vie, mine is good for nine + years.  Sounds like they're going to fold the FOID & CC into one card anyways, which would make a lot of sense.

I don't have the eye strength to read through the whole bill again, I assume if any GFZs were removed by Amend. 2 I'll see the white smoke coming out of the chimney pipe, but I'm not holding my breath.

Actually it still appears you can file for both at the same time according to (section 30):

16 (4) an affirmation that the applicant possesses a 17 currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and 18 card number if possessed or notice the applicant is 19 applying for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card in 20 conjunction with the license application;

Edited by BShawn, Today, 10:41 PM.

[Duck888]

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part    To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

There isn't any. They will combine the FOID and CCW together on one card. Nothing else.

[Simo Hayha]

mikelogan, on 23 May 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Reposting by request and because I care about you and your eyesight:

I threw both HA1 and HA2 through Adobe Acrobat and had it create a new document highlighting everything that was changed.

Hopefully it'll make things a little easier to decipher.

THAT was funny!  Made me laugh out loud.  Sitting here going through all of this I really needed a good laugh.  And by the way...nice job on the docs!

[RockerXX]

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

So which is it...??  It either did or did not happen to you...

5th grade reading comprehension, please read the entire sentence instead of taking part of it OUT context and making yourself look silly with yet another personal attack, OK?

"It has never happened to me personally, but I do have a few friends who would have met the arrest number in their younger days... "

Do you comprehend, yet?  In less words since the word count seems to be your hang up, I have never met the arrest number required to flag under this bill...  Is that easier for you to understand?

[spu69]

section 92.  creating task force to explore combining foid, ccw, and DL/ID

[RockerXX]

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

And frankly, I'm not the least surprised.

Neither am I seeing as you are a Former LEO, that knows it all...

Edited by RockerXX, Today, 10:42 PM.

[Elderberry]

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

Section 92

Man I must be getting tired...  I went past that a dozen times and didn't find it....'

Ok.  All it really does is say "Hey -- we have this concept of doing some combining of cards so let's create a task force to go put together a plan and here are the folks who will be on the task force"...  I would anticipate the actual details of how this would/could all work will come from the task force that figures it all out....  

You know, in some states simple traffic tickets require no bond.  I mean, if you don't bother to pay your ticket they just kill your license in the computer, and send you a registered letter.

Thanks for the Section number...!!!

[spu69]

Duck888, on 23 May 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

There isn't any. They will combine the FOID and CCW together on one card. Nothing else.

Section 92. Consolidation of concealed carry license and
Firearm Owner's Identification Card.
(a) The Director shall create a task force to develop a
plan to incorporate and consolidate the concealed carry license
under this Act and the Firearm Owner's Identification Card
under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act into a
designation on the Illinois driver's license or Illinois
identification card of a person with authority to possess a
firearm under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act, or
authority to possess a firearm under the Firearm Owners
Identification Card Act and authority to carry a concealed
firearm under this Act. The plan must provide for an
alternative card for:

Edited by spu69, Today, 10:45 PM.

[ca22151]

RockerXX, on 23 May 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

So which is it...??  It either did or did not happen to you...

5th grade reading comprehension, please read the entire sentence instead of taking part of it OUT context and making yourself look silly with yet another personal attack, OK?

"It has never happened to me personally, but I do have a few friends who would have met the arrest number in their younger days... "

Do you comprehend, yet?  In less words since the word count seems to be your hang up, I have never met the arrest number required to flag under this bill...  Is that easier for you to understand?

Long few days. Tough fight. Take a breath.

[BShawn]

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

cls74, on 23 May 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Elderberry, on 23 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Guys, what drivers license wording are you talking about..??  The only thing I find is Section 122 which only talks about accessing your picture.

What Section number is this part To me it says they will incorporate both the FOID and CCP into a designation on your State ID or DL. It then has an alternative card wording for non residents and Residents who do not possess a DL or ID.

Section 92

Man I must be getting tired...  I went past that a dozen times and didn't find it....'

Ok.  All it really does is say "Hey -- we have this concept of doing some combining of cards so let's create a task force to go put together a plan and here are the folks who will be on the task force"...  I would anticipate the actual details of how this would/could all work will come from the task force that figures it all out....  

You know, in some states simple traffic tickets require no bond.  I mean, if you don't bother to pay your ticket they just kill your license in the computer, and send you a registered letter.

Thanks for the Section number...!!!

I think if they push for the CCWP endorsement on the DL we should push for that here, that they wont take your license for a ticket bond (this is for 'everyone' as I personally have no worries since I have not only an ID but a bond card too <.<)

Edited by BShawn, Today, 10:46 PM.