handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:02 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:02 AM I have been reading a lot of peoples comments about Brandon's newest bill. And quite honestly, a lot of people are sounding like whinny babies. This is by far not a perfect bill. But, it is Shall issue, no carve out for Cook Count, and preemptive for the whole state (HUGE). Plus the CFP and Cook County "assault weapons" ban go away. We need to realise that we live in Illinois. Not Arizona or Texas. If you offered this bill up in California or New York, they would be jumping for joy. It is a very good start for RTC here in Illinois. Yes the restriction for Public Transportation does suck big time. However, Wisconsin, Miami and St. Louis to name a few do not allow carry as well on public transportation. Folks, the reality is that this is the last chance we have on this. There is no cliff. It's Raoul's bill or this. If you think for one second that we can simply get Raoul's bill through and then have the courts make it all better, you're wrong. The court said there are "reasonable" restrictions allowed in concealed carry. What those "reasonable" restrictions are for the court vs us could be vastly different. I'm not willing to take my chances.Madigan is done playing games. This is his baby to get everyone a little something. A wise man told me that if everyone is a little p***** off at the end of the negotiations, then it is a good compromise. And I gotta say, the other side is WAY more p***** off than we are.Let's stay together on this. This is the best we are going to get. Torpedo this and goodbye RTC in Illinois. Rauol's bill WILL get voted in and no one will carry. Is that what you really want??Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are.
RockerXX Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:10 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:10 AM Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I am an adult, one with convictions that I will not compromise because of my zip code... That is why I will continue to fight against and refuse to accept or endorse legislation that blatantly violates my Constitutional Rights on multiple levels, something that is simply unacceptable for me as an adult to compromise upon...
AlphaKoncepts aka CGS Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:44 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:44 AM There is a cliff. I would much prefer no bill to a bad bill, though I haven't read Phelps new bill yet so I am not commenting specifically. It'll be very hard to fix a bad bill once in place, vs if we have no bill it'll be much easier to continue to work on passing a good one.
Jaybuck Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:47 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:47 AM Things I don't like about it but I have lived many years without it so I can live with it easily..... It does appear that it is the end of the road. Lets get it working.
Mannon Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:51 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 09:51 AM Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I am an adult, one with convictions that I will not compromise because of my zip code... That is why I will continue to fight against and refuse to accept or endorse legislation that blatantly violates my Constitutional Rights on multiple levels, something that is simply unacceptable for me as an adult to compromise upon...This is how everyone should feel are the anti gunners gonna stop fighting us?
norsmis Posted May 23, 2013 at 10:03 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 10:03 AM Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I am an adult, one with convictions that I will not compromise because of my zip code... That is why I will continue to fight against and refuse to accept or endorse legislation that blatantly violates my Constitutional Rights on multiple levels, something that is simply unacceptable for me as an adult to compromise upon...I like what you have to say in this post. But honestly, I will keep my opinions about this bill to myself because it appears almost everyone here is ready to compromise their rights away AGAIN. I only have about a year left in this state before the Army sends me somewhere else (hopefully back to Texas!) so I will let the people who have to live with this steaming pile of a law for many years to come decide if they want to give the Chicago machine exactly what they want AGAIN. Rocker, I do admire you for not wanting to rest on your laurels and accept this garbage bill as being the best you can get. Stay strong!
Burtonrider10022 Posted May 23, 2013 at 10:57 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 10:57 AM I love how public transit was one of the non-negotiables but yet it's being negotiated away. No public transit will completely disarm my girlfriend and that bill is useless to me.
Joebie Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:06 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:06 AM While I may be for this bill, people are entitled to their opinions, and I may even find most of them valid. As in, I don't think they are being whiny babies... but just expressing how they feel.
cbrown1311 Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:11 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:11 AM I love how public transit was one of the non-negotiables but yet it's being negotiated away. No public transit will completely disarm my girlfriend and that bill is useless to me. You and me both, I live in Chicago, and this is a carve out for Chicago, plain and simple. I'm not paying upwards of 500 dollars so that I can carry as I go for a walk, since I won't be able to actually carry anywhere other than my home. No carry for all Chicagoans unless you are well off, can afford to take a car everywhere, and never actually do anything other than walk down the street. I trust Todd and Molly, but this sucks bad guys...
handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:23 AM Author Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:23 AM I love how public transit was one of the non-negotiables but yet it's being negotiated away. No public transit will completely disarm my girlfriend and that bill is useless to me. You and me both, I live in Chicago, and this is a carve out for Chicago, plain and simple. I'm not paying upwards of 500 dollars so that I can carry as I go for a walk, since I won't be able to actually carry anywhere other than my home. No carry for all Chicagoans unless you are well off, can afford to take a car everywhere, and never actually do anything other than walk down the street. I trust Todd and Molly, but this sucks bad guys...We were never going to get public transportation. And yes, IT SUCKS. but it's this or nothing.
cbrown1311 Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:25 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:25 AM Last time I check public transportation was on the list of NON-NEGOTIABLE items.
handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:26 AM Author Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:26 AM There is a cliff. I would much prefer no bill to a bad bill, though I haven't read Phelps new bill yet so I am not commenting specifically. It'll be very hard to fix a bad bill once in place, vs if we have no bill it'll be much easier to continue to work on passing a good one.No, there is no cliff. Listen to your leaders. Todd and Molly have had talks with Madigan. THERE IS NO CLIFF. It's either Phelps or Kwame. Pick your poison. Madigan is not gonna let this goto June 9th and whether we like it or not, he's in charge, not us, not Todd, not even the ILGA.
Burtonrider10022 Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:29 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:29 AM We were never going to get public transportation. And yes, IT SUCKS. but it's this or nothing. This bill IS nothing for me! Selfish? Yeah, sure, if you don't include the other 1.5 million daily riders potentially in my predicament.
WindyCityGuy Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:34 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:34 AM I have been reading a lot of peoples comments about Brandon's newest bill. And quite honestly, a lot of people are sounding like whinny babies. This is by far not a perfect bill. But, it is Shall issue, no carve out for Cook Count, and preemptive for the whole state (HUGE). Plus the CFP and Cook County "assault weapons" ban go away. We need to realise that we live in Illinois. Not Arizona or Texas. If you offered this bill up in California or New York, they would be jumping for joy. It is a very good start for RTC here in Illinois.Yes the restriction for Public Transportation does suck big time. However, Wisconsin, Miami and St. Louis to name a few do not allow carry as well on public transportation.Folks, the reality is that this is the last chance we have on this. There is no cliff. It's Raoul's bill or this. If you think for one second that we can simply get Raoul's bill through and then have the courts make it all better, you're wrong. The court said there are "reasonable" restrictions allowed in concealed carry. What those "reasonable" restrictions are for the court vs us could be vastly different. I'm not willing to take my chances.Madigan is done playing games. This is his baby to get everyone a little something. A wise man told me that if everyone is a little p***** off at the end of the negotiations, then it is a good compromise. And I gotta say, the other side is WAY more p***** off than we are.Let's stay together on this. This is the best we are going to get. Torpedo this and goodbye RTC in Illinois. Rauol's bill WILL get voted in and no one will carry. Is that what you really want??Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I don't believe it is shall issue, period. You have a sixteen hour course that has to be taught by state approved individuals. When they approve one company to train and you get a five year waiting list for the class is it still shall issue?
lockman Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM WI did not ban carry on public transit. This is a case of Milwaukee pulling a Creative interpretation. Fl how can you have Miami banning transit carry under a uniform state law? What live in a state that sucks, our rights denied sucks, and we have compromised to settle on something that makes things suck just a little bit less. I understand the political realities and realize most of our work is still ahead of us. This is a bit broader than many realize here. We must find a way to weed out the anti-gun liberals and conservatives without offending the political parties. We must come together in a coalition that can attack the obstructionists of liberty without party labels. And this must include cleaning our own houses of the elephant and donkey dung. We have let it pile up for decades and we have a big mess to clear before real change can begin.
Ricky Two Guns Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM I have been reading a lot of peoples comments about Brandon's newest bill. And quite honestly, a lot of people are sounding like whinny babies. This is by far not a perfect bill. But, it is Shall issue, no carve out for Cook Count, and preemptive for the whole state (HUGE). Plus the CFP and Cook County "assault weapons" ban go away. We need to realise that we live in Illinois. Not Arizona or Texas. If you offered this bill up in California or New York, they would be jumping for joy. It is a very good start for RTC here in Illinois.Yes the restriction for Public Transportation does suck big time. However, Wisconsin, Miami and St. Louis to name a few do not allow carry as well on public transportation.Folks, the reality is that this is the last chance we have on this. There is no cliff. It's Raoul's bill or this. If you think for one second that we can simply get Raoul's bill through and then have the courts make it all better, you're wrong. The court said there are "reasonable" restrictions allowed in concealed carry. What those "reasonable" restrictions are for the court vs us could be vastly different. I'm not willing to take my chances.Madigan is done playing games. This is his baby to get everyone a little something. A wise man told me that if everyone is a little p***** off at the end of the negotiations, then it is a good compromise. And I gotta say, the other side is WAY more p***** off than we are.Let's stay together on this. This is the best we are going to get. Torpedo this and goodbye RTC in Illinois. Rauol's bill WILL get voted in and no one will carry. Is that what you really want??Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I don't believe it is shall issue, period. You have a sixteen hour course that has to be taught by state approved individuals. When they approve one company to train and you get a five year waiting list for the class is it still shall issue? And then you can only carry from your house to your car with all the restrictions.
Livewire18 Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:55 AM Posted May 23, 2013 at 11:55 AM I have been reading a lot of peoples comments about Brandon's newest bill. And quite honestly, a lot of people are sounding like whinny babies. This is by far not a perfect bill. But, it is Shall issue, no carve out for Cook Count, and preemptive for the whole state (HUGE). Plus the CFP and Cook County "assault weapons" ban go away. We need to realise that we live in Illinois. Not Arizona or Texas. If you offered this bill up in California or New York, they would be jumping for joy. It is a very good start for RTC here in Illinois.Yes the restriction for Public Transportation does suck big time. However, Wisconsin, Miami and St. Louis to name a few do not allow carry as well on public transportation.Folks, the reality is that this is the last chance we have on this. There is no cliff. It's Raoul's bill or this. If you think for one second that we can simply get Raoul's bill through and then have the courts make it all better, you're wrong. The court said there are "reasonable" restrictions allowed in concealed carry. What those "reasonable" restrictions are for the court vs us could be vastly different. I'm not willing to take my chances.Madigan is done playing games. This is his baby to get everyone a little something. A wise man told me that if everyone is a little p***** off at the end of the negotiations, then it is a good compromise. And I gotta say, the other side is WAY more p***** off than we are.Let's stay together on this. This is the best we are going to get. Torpedo this and goodbye RTC in Illinois. Rauol's bill WILL get voted in and no one will carry. Is that what you really want??Stop pounding your fists like babies and act like the adults we all are. I don't believe it is shall issue, period. You have a sixteen hour course that has to be taught by state approved individuals. When they approve one company to train and you get a five year waiting list for the class is it still shall issue? EVERY State that requires training has a STATE APPROVED company or organization do it. This is technical verbiage only and they are not allowed to say NRA in any bill. This only keeps people from "Certifying themselves". I understand your frustrations, but jumping to conclusions will not help anyone.
handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:02 PM Author Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:02 PM NRA can't be listed on this bill. Chicago Dems won't sign off on it. And yes, we need a couple of their votes to sign off on this. Why is this so hard to understand??
handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:05 PM Author Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:05 PM Fine. Throw this bill under the bus and go with Raoul's bill. It's so much better. This is one or the other issue. Rauol or Brandon.
Kenny Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:09 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:09 PM The funniest thing about this whole deal is: Out of everybody on this board the Chicago residents are getting the clean end of the turd!!! They no longer have to register their guns!! (cost savings bigtime for some with a lot of guns) There is no more AWB!!! They got the best things out of this bill & they are still whining!!! Hindsight being 20/20 If most of them were going to cry anyways we should have passed a carveout bill and got a great bill for the rest of the state and let Chicago fight it out to join us!!! The rest of the state is paying bigtime now!! The rest of the state gains nothing over a carveout bill. Chicago & cook county residents are the ones winning big here so you should quit whining about public transportation. It can still be in a holster & a mag pouch on the other side of your hip, Shoot some USPSA and you will be able to load & have the first shot off in 1.5 seconds in no time!!!
Joebie Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM The funniest thing about this whole deal is: Out of everybody on this board the Chicago residents are getting the clean end of the turd!!! They no longer have to register their guns!! (cost savings bigtime for some with a lot of guns) There is no more AWB!!! They got the best things out of this bill & they are still whining!!! Hindsight being 20/20 If most of them were going to cry anyways we should have passed a carveout bill and got a great bill for the rest of the state and let Chicago fight it out to join us!!! The rest of the state is paying bigtime now!! The rest of the state gains nothing over a carveout bill. Chicago & cook county residents are the ones winning big here so you should quit whining about public transportation. It can still be in a holster & a mag pouch on the other side of your hip, Shoot some USPSA and you will be able to load & have the first shot off in 1.5 seconds in no time!!! I bet the gang bangers are stoked about this as well. LOL
CILhunter Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM I am not a fan of this bill, however, I am REALLY hating on Kwame's bill. I don't think Madiagan will let us get to the clif-too much risk for his little girl. The no-public transit language sux. Does not affect me, personally, but it is terrible for our brothers and sisters in Chicago. I will (reluctantly) support this bill, only because the alternative is far worse. There is more than one way to tweak this bill/law after it is enacted. I fully expect the lawsuits to commence as soon as someone is popped for forgetting to remove their firearm when going into one of the GFZs. Would not be surprised if Todd and friends already have a test case getting ready to walk into a train or bus, with a gun, at their first opportunity. Now we need to re-double our efforts to elect pro 2A legislators and a governor. Passing this bill with preemtion, and overturning some of the really bad ordinances from Chicago and the near suburbs will make it easier to change the law in the future, once we get a sympathetic governor. I am encouraged by the fact that Colleen Daley feels sold-out, is having a fit and begging her minions to help kill this bill.
oneshot Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:44 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:44 PM The reason there is no cliff is because a significant number of our votes aren't willing to go over without something being passed, either this or Kwame's bill. They don't want chaos carry, if you think about it, its very dangerous for them politically. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
chidiver Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:45 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 12:45 PM The funniest thing about this whole deal is: Out of everybody on this board the Chicago residents are getting the clean end of the turd!!! They no longer have to register their guns!! (cost savings bigtime for some with a lot of guns) There is no more AWB!!! They got the best things out of this bill & they are still whining!!! In my uninformed opinion, this is where the heavy negotiating took place.. give up public trans (for now...tho it may take years) but get FULL preemption on all firearms ordinances from now on. It affects me greatly. Ride Metra daily. What I ask to those around Chicago complaining about public transport is this..Would you trade the ability to initially carry on public transportation for 1) eliminating the ability of home rule entities to create or enforce silly gun laws and registration schemes AND 2) shall issue concealed carry available to all-including those in Cook AND 3) any future amendment to CC only requires a simple majority (and a non-veto)? Because thats probably what the tradenoff was (plus other payoffs like the casino). Did anyone think CFP would ever be legislated away short of a court order??? Didnt think so. I cannot think of one state that, once a shall issue law was on the books, didn't eventually work to soften some of the original restrictions that were required by those on the fence. Theres a reason that there are still IllinoisCarry equivalents in most states. This was only going to be the beginning, regardless of how much "leverage" we thought we had. The training and fee suck and so do the place restrictions and no reciprocity. That is a heavy price to pay by the rest of the state to tear Chicago from firearms regulation. I think everything but the fee is fixable in time (politicians never give back money once they have it). Its not a good bill. Its not a bad bill. Its a politically feasible bill. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Feh Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:01 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:01 PM Thanks for instilling some logic over emotion. After a reality check overnight, I think Brandons is certainly the best we can get initially. Shall issue, no carve outs. The only thing that bothers me, is the creation of these concealed carry panels mentioned in the bill, and State Police setting up the training. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
countyline Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:19 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:19 PM I see the NRA and ISRA are remaining silent over this, which tells me they are throwing us under the bus as well. A Chicago carve-out would have been the best option for downstate, and I could care less about what Chicago gets out of this, because they are the reason we are here to begin with. In Illinois, never, ever trust a democrat with your guns.
Trevis Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:28 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:28 PM OP, this is complete crap. They represent US! This is not about what is politically good for them. This is a crap bill that discriminates against lower income people, those that are single parents and cannot carve out days for training, etc. Saying you'll take this is the reason why Chicago rules this state. It's time to stop that. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
handyflyer Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:33 PM Author Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:33 PM OP, this is complete crap. They represent US! This is not about what is politically good for them. This is a crap bill that discriminates against lower income people, those that are single parents and cannot carve out days for training, etc. Saying you'll take this is the reason why Chicago rules this state. It's time to stop that. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2Get Madigan out of office. Only way we'll win. This is the reality we live in.
ljnowel Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:46 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:46 PM I see the NRA and ISRA are remaining silent over this, which tells me they are throwing us under the bus as well. A Chicago carve-out would have been the best option for downstate, and I could care less about what Chicago gets out of this, because they are the reason we are here to begin with. In Illinois, never, ever trust a democrat with your guns. There is the fact in this. We could have had a decent bill with a chicago carve out. Now we have this turd. All the chicago people will gladly take it because its full of good stuff for them. While we screamed we wouldnt throw them under the bus it appears they are more than happy to see downstate take a screwing for a bill thats good for them.
Trevis Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:59 PM Posted May 23, 2013 at 01:59 PM Get Madigan out of office. Only way we'll win. This is the reality we live in. I have never voted for that man, never will. I've done my part, I'm not the one who put him there. Blame people that play his games, that play by his rules. When we saw Sacia yelling and such, that is exactly what needs to happen, every single day. We need to make a physical presence at every office, at every ILGA room, tell them they are fired, to go home, and stop stealing from us our birthright. The other issue is that this is a Chicago carve out. There are so many places you cannot carry in Chicago, it's a carve out while still screwing the down state. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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