26 replies to this topic

[TkoKid]

A guy was standing on the sidewalk in front of a school, with his buddy.  Neither attended the school...  He showed the friend, who also did not attend the school, he had a CO2 powered Pellet pistol...  The two boys then left the area in opposite directions....   “A teacher … stated that she saw a white male, heavyset with a shaved head, wearing black pants, a black jacket and a green shirt outside the school with a black long-barreled handgun,” Decatur police officer *** Name Witheld*** wrote in an arrest affidavit. “She stated that the white male with the gun was with another white male and they stood on the sidewalk outside the school in front of her classroom.”

The boy was charged with a class 4 felony and sentenced to probation and fees...

Please keep in mind the boy was not on school property and the gun was a pellet / BB pistol ...

What do you guys think???

Link to Story .. http://herald-review...1a4bcf887a.html

[Grey Beret]

I understand the arrest even though I don't agree but the conviction is unbelieveable.

What if he had been carrying a pressure cooker?

[RockerXX]

One thing to note the kid plead that deal, he should have fought it tooth and nail before ever pleading to a felony that will follow him forever!

IMO the legal system is creating crooks, and this is a perfect example...  The kid makes a dumb decision and now he is a convicted felon, a conviction that will severely limit his ability to get gainful employment and have a stressful career...  So the kid in the next few years will likely find himself working at McDonalds (if they even give him a chance) or more likely he will be lured into a life of crime, lies and dishonestly to actually be able to pay his bills...

Edited by RockerXX, Yesterday, 04:26 PM.

[TkoKid]

I think it should have been reported to the police and investigated. I think the teacher did the right thing, BUT...To my knowledge, it isn't illegal to walk in the city with a BB gun. They were also, NOT on school property but simply passing in front of the school. I think A class 4 felony conviction is just psychotic. .

[TkoKid]

RockerXX, on 19 May 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

One thing to note the kid plead that deal, he should have fought it tooth and nail before ever pleading to a felony that will follow him forever!

IMO the legal system is creating crooks, and this is a perfect example...  The kid makes a dumb decision and now he is a convicted felon, a conviction that will severely limit his ability to get gainful employment and have a stressful career...  So the kid in the next few years will likely find himself working at McDonalds (if they even give him a chance) or more likely he will be lured into a life of crime, lies and dishonestly to actually be able to pay his bills...

Ok. This has to stop!!  That is the second time I absolutely agree with you.

[vezpa]

Lawyer up and walk....................

NEVER take a plea deal for BS.  I don't care how much it costs, get it done.

.

Edited by vezpa, Yesterday, 04:59 PM.

[Ron]

RockerXX, on 19 May 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

One thing to note the kid plead that deal, he should have fought it tooth and nail before ever pleading to a felony that will follow him forever!

IMO the legal system is creating crooks, and this is a perfect example...  The kid makes a dumb decision and now he is a convicted felon, a conviction that will severely limit his ability to get gainful employment and have a stressful career...  So the kid in the next few years will likely find himself working at McDonalds (if they even give him a chance) or more likely he will be lured into a life of crime, lies and dishonestly to actually be able to pay his bills...

Agree, the kid was incredibly stupid, but to take a felony and be branded for life seems extreme.

Edited by Ron, Yesterday, 05:06 PM.

[azone5]

It's wrong. The prosecutor knows it too.

[mjw45]

A pellet gun gets a felony charge?
Disorderly conduct a felony?  A felony?

Who was harmed?

This does have to stop.

He didn't even threaten someone.

How is showing a friend a pellet gun a crime?

I think I feel sick now.

[RockerXX]

azone5, on 19 May 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

It's wrong. The prosecutor knows it too.

He/She doesn't care, your life and freedom is simply a scorecard for their job performance!!!  And it's the disgusting truth, convictions = rewards from above, Nolle prosequi = condemnations from above...  A plead even if they know it's utterly wrong is still a conviction on his/her score card and better for their job performance review...

[azone5]

RockerXX, on 19 May 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

azone5, on 19 May 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

It's wrong. The prosecutor knows it too.

He/She doesn't care, your life and freedom is simply a scorecard for their job performance!!!  And it's the disgusting truth, convictions = rewards from above, Nolle prosequi = condemnations from above...  A plead even if they know it's utterly wrong is still a conviction on his/her score card and better for their job performance review...

You're absolutely right.

[howie]

Kids will be kids, and kids inevitably make stupid decisions.  The felony conviction is total BS.  Nobody got hurt.  The kid exercised poor judgement, and I would hope, learned from his mistake.  Branding the kid as a felon is complete crap.

[jdbeier38]

I remember actually taking a pellet gun TO school when I was young and our teacher thought it was bad***.  I'm not even 25 yet and I'm saying "back in my day.." And "I remember when ..."

[ca22151]

They nailed him with a disorderly conduct charge because that was the only felony they had in their arsenal that could possibly fit the facst.  they know a UUW charge is iffy/not even constitutional to bring to court anymore, so they had to hang the poor slob with something else.  That's just bad behavior on the part of the prosecutor; hope he/she can live with themselves.

[RECarry]

Public Service Announcement:  History shows us the mere sight of this pellet gun would be enough for the typical cowardly mass shooter to flee or put a bullet in their own head before killing any kids.

[GlockShooter]

vezpa, on 19 May 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Lawyer up and walk....................

NEVER take a plea deal for BS.  I don't care how much it costs, get it done.

.

I agree with you under the circumstances, but what if you are broke?

I'm not playing devil's advocate.  I couldn't afford to "lawyer up" right now.  What then?

[RockerXX]

GlockShooter, on 19 May 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

I'm not playing devil's advocate.  I couldn't afford to "lawyer up" right now.  What then?

Well considering a felony is for the rest of your life, you find a way even if the means begging and pleading with family members and friends or letting your car get repo'd or whatever...  If you are out on bail you hustle 16 hours a day doing whatever jobs you can find to pay the lawyer, even if it means going door to door asking if you can pooper scoop their yards...  A felony is a life long badge that will cost you exponentially more in the long run the suffering now is temporary...  Taking a plea for a felony on what I consider a horribly unjustified charge to start with is IMO the worst thing to do...

I know fighting my case cleaned out a lot of savings and cost me dearly, but at the end of the day I prevailed and was thus able to rebuild and get over it without a life long conviction hanging over me for something I didn't do...  BTW in my case they refused to let me plead to a misdemeanor, it was something I was considering even though I was innocent just to put it in my past...  But the prosecutor insisted on nothing less then the felony I was charged with telling me it was a first offense and not that bad since I wouldn't actually see jail time, I could only shake my head at his silliness...

One thing to consider, the State has a time frame to bring you to trial (aka the right to a speedy trial), but as the defendant you can make up every excuse in the book and push that time frame out for a long time...  For the first 8 months of my case it was simply appear in court once a month so my lawyer could asked for another 30 days...  It not only gave me more time to pay the bill it wears out the prosecution and any witnesses that have to keep making failed plans to show up only to find it continued and the prosecutor starts to lose brownie points because the case is still open with no conviction...  The other defendants in my case pushed their case out 15 months...  If  you are serious you can bank the lawyer fees in that time, and you should...

The said reality is you need to lawyer up and play the game if you want a fair shake, if not you will get run over and pay for it 99% of the time...

[azone5]

I wish there was something the NRA/SAF could do to help the kid.

[Glock23]

GlockShooter, on 19 May 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

vezpa, on 19 May 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Lawyer up and walk....................

NEVER take a plea deal for BS.  I don't care how much it costs, get it done.

.

I agree with you under the circumstances, but what if you are broke?

I'm not playing devil's advocate.  I couldn't afford to "lawyer up" right now.  What then?

Miranda?  Right to an attorney, even if you cannot afford one?

[LPD5408]

I hate to agree, but Rocker is right. Do what you have to get the best attorney you can get. A felony conviction will follow you and may very well prevent you from getting certain jobs. The pubic defender option is not one I would plan on using.

[cgs]

A Felony for a BB gun?  

If he is a child he can expunge, but he has some very very bad or no counsel at all!  I know what happened. Same thing that happened when I got arrested for being in a Chicago park after it closed when I was 17. When I got to court the prosecutor took me aside and offered me a deal which included probation, said if I didn't take the deal WHEN I was found guilty it would be a few weeks in jail (surely trying to scare me.  I said no, I wanted a trial.  We settled on 6 month supervision and when the 6 month is over nothing on my record.  

Not the same thing, but that's what happens, the prosecutor doesn't want to present the case, has way way way too many cases, offered a bad deal, scared the boy, and the boy fell for it hook line and sinker.

[ca22151]

He got screwed.

If he can afford any legal counsel, whatsoever, he needs to file a motion to vacate (w/in 30 days) based on ineffective (probably none) assistance of counsel, etc., and once it was granted demand a jury trial.

[Grey Beret]

When I was 17, I was arrested for illegal transportation of alcohol.  I don't know what ever happened to that case.  I kept asking the prosecuting attorneys nephew if he knew anything but he said that he didn't.  I figured he would know since he was in the backseat at the time of the arrest(s).

[TkoKid]

cgs, on 20 May 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

A Felony for a BB gun?  

If he is a child he can expunge, but he has some very very bad or no counsel at all!  I know what happened. Same thing that happened when I got arrested for being in a Chicago park after it closed when I was 17. When I got to court the prosecutor took me aside and offered me a deal which included probation, said if I didn't take the deal WHEN I was found guilty it would be a few weeks in jail (surely trying to scare me.  I said no, I wanted a trial.  We settled on 6 month supervision and when the 6 month is over nothing on my record.  

Not the same thing, but that's what happens, the prosecutor doesn't want to present the case, has way way way too many cases, offered a bad deal, scared the boy, and the boy fell for it hook line and sinker.

Unfortunately ... He was 18 so he was tried as an adult...  Since he plea bargained.... I think that is it but would sure like to hear some lawyer types chime in... I don't know the guy personally but I could definitely reach out as I do know some of the parties involved...

[cgs]

GlockShooter, on 19 May 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

vezpa, on 19 May 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Lawyer up and walk....................

NEVER take a plea deal for BS.  I don't care how much it costs, get it done.

.

I agree with you under the circumstances, but what if you are broke?

I'm not playing devil's advocate.  I couldn't afford to "lawyer up" right now.  What then?

There is such a thing as a public defender and many many lawyer defer payments or make a payment plan.

If this were my son, I would figure something out to keep a felony off his record, and make him mow lawns around the neighborhood until it was paid off.

[cgs]

TkoKid, on 20 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

cgs, on 20 May 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

A Felony for a BB gun?  

If he is a child he can expunge, but he has some very very bad or no counsel at all!  I know what happened. Same thing that happened when I got arrested for being in a Chicago park after it closed when I was 17. When I got to court the prosecutor took me aside and offered me a deal which included probation, said if I didn't take the deal WHEN I was found guilty it would be a few weeks in jail (surely trying to scare me.  I said no, I wanted a trial.  We settled on 6 month supervision and when the 6 month is over nothing on my record.  

Not the same thing, but that's what happens, the prosecutor doesn't want to present the case, has way way way too many cases, offered a bad deal, scared the boy, and the boy fell for it hook line and sinker.

Unfortunately ... He was 18 so he was tried as an adult...  Since he plea bargained.... I think that is it but would sure like to hear some lawyer types chime in... I don't know the guy personally but I could definitely reach out as I do know some of the parties involved...

I can defiently be wrong, but can't someone "vacate a judgement" and some how ask for a retrial, kind of like an appeal?

[skinnyb82]

Nope.  He pled out.  It would've been different had he actually been tried and convicted by a judge or jury but a plea bargain pretty much screws you out of any chance of the conviction being overturned.  The only thing that could get the conviction vacated would be to prove counsel is incompetent and/or ineffective.  Gave him frivolous advice.  Which is really hard to prove.  They practically need to have video of a lawyer sleeping in open court to reverse a conviction.

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Edited by skinnyb82, Today, 11:09 AM.