Bud Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:17 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:17 PM There is a very good chance, a real possibility, that many if the downstate legislators are do hungry for a carry bill that they may in fact sell out to the Chicago machine and carve out Chicago and Cook County.,PLE immediately call your reps and Senators right now and urge them to only support the NRA approved bill.One State-One Law
patriot1776 Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:23 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:23 PM Some may cave on both sides, pass the popcorn the real show is about to begin.
wtr100 Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:28 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:28 PM Bring the pain - the biggest worry I have is enough down state socialists will bow to the machine
Patriots & Tyrants Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:35 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:35 PM There is a very good chance, a real possibility, that many if the downstate legislators are do hungry for a carry bill that they may in fact sell out to the Chicago machine and carve out Chicago and Cook County.,PLE immediately call your reps and Senators right now and urge them to only support the NRA approved bill.One State-One Law If down state Dem's sell Chicago and Cook county out then Madigan will have broken the back of the "gun" lobby in Illinois. We will have AWB and MAG bans with special little carve outs for down state for grandfathering, etc in no time if that happens. Illinois will start sliding in the wrong direction real fast. That is why we need to fight fight fight and call our reps/senators every day until a good carry bill is passed.
POAT54 Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:45 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 04:45 PM There is a very good chance, a real possibility, that many if the downstate legislators are do hungry for a carry bill that they may in fact sell out to the Chicago machine and carve out Chicago and Cook County.,PLE immediately call your reps and Senators right now and urge them to only support the NRA approved bill.One State-One Law If down state Dem's sell Chicago and Cook county out then Madigan will have broken the back of the "gun" lobby in Illinois. We will have AWB and MAG bans with special little carve outs for down state for grandfathering, etc in no time if that happens. Illinois will start sliding in the wrong direction real fast. That is why we need to fight fight fight and call our reps/senators every day until a good carry bill is passed. If they do, how long before cook expands their control. One State, One Law.
johnsxdm Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:11 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:11 PM I can see it now. Cook and Chicago get what they want, they Lake County will be screaming they want it too, then it will be DuPage County, then Will County. It will not end !! ONE STATE = ONE LAW !!!
skinnyb82 Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:20 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:20 PM If they carve out Cook County and Chicago you can count on a lawsuit being filed immediately after the bill becomes law. And you can expect the law to be overturned. We'll be right back where we started. Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2
Patriots & Tyrants Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:26 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:26 PM If they carve out Cook County and Chicago you can count on a lawsuit being filed immediately after the bill becomes law. And you can expect the law to be overturned. We'll be right back where we started. Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2 and that will be OK with the Madigans because by then the SCOTUS might not be so gun friendly.We are on a clock here as well, I think its something like 4 of the 5 Heller and McDonald votes are over the age of 70. If not Obama then the next president will almost certainly be replacing at least one if not two or three of them. If we get another anti gun president in 2016 gun rights are going to be in a very bad spot. If any of our majority votes from Heller and McDonald retire before Obama is out of office, same thing applies, though to a lesser extent if the next president is pro-gun. We really need good laws now and need to start pushing and wrapping up important lawsuits before the window closes.
RockerXX Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:35 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:35 PM Any downstate rep the flips is simply a spineless worm, that will lose any respect from me no matter their history or reputation up until then... If they don't want to include Chicago in a 'law' just let The Cliff happen and they will get carry in their district just like they want without tossing others in the State under the bus with their spineless actions... They should be told a few more times that they are STATE reps, and their actions effect the entire State, not just their corner... If Chicago and the likes want to pass Home Rule laws to restrict carry after The Cliff let them foot the bill to defend those illegal laws, but on the flip side if the State passes a spineless illegal law the entire State is going to foot the bill for those spineless reps when the State get sued yet again, and they will...
vezpa Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:42 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:42 PM If anybody flips sides now then they are just really ******* stupid. All we have to do is hold. I can't wait until this charade is over..
moon Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:47 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 05:47 PM They better not sell out or we VOTE THEM OUT! I'm thinking I should move the heck out of this pathetic state. Unto Texas! There shouldn't be as much snow, its warmer, lower taxes and our freedoms can be excercised there.
ckmorley Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:30 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:30 PM Give them nothing ! But take from them EVERYTHING! ckmorley
StreuB1 Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:38 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:38 PM There is a very good chance, a real possibility, that many if the downstate legislators are do hungry for a carry bill that they may in fact sell out to the Chicago machine and carve out Chicago and Cook County.,PLE immediately call your reps and Senators right now and urge them to only support the NRA approved bill.One State-One Law If down state Dem's sell Chicago and Cook county out then Madigan will have broken the back of the "gun" lobby in Illinois. We will have AWB and MAG bans with special little carve outs for down state for grandfathering, etc in no time if that happens. Illinois will start sliding in the wrong direction real fast. That is why we need to fight fight fight and call our reps/senators every day until a good carry bill is passed. 100% my man This is exactly what I just alluded to in the 5/14 Todd update thread. IF WE ALLOW THIS CRACK TO FORM IN OUR FOUNDATION. THE REST WILL FORM THE SAME WAY!
Mr. Fife Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:44 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:44 PM If we get carved out here in Cook County, there won't be much we can do when they come to carve out your area, except maybe to remind you that we told you so. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
RockerXX Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:50 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 06:50 PM If we get carved out here in Cook County, there won't be much we can do when they come to carve out your area, except maybe to remind you that we told you so. Yep, if Chicago gets away with a carve out, you can BET with 100% certainty that the Chicago surrounding areas will follow suit in no time flat, and it will grow from there like a plague from city to city and county to county... I can see an entire Chicagoland area, Rockford area, Springfield area out and Champaign-Urbana area carve out in the next year if the spineless allow the plague to get a footing... In a few years time we will be at the point where IL is carry only in name not in practice....
ckm Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:23 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:23 PM Yep, if Chicago gets away with a carve out, you can BET with 100% certainty that the Chicago surrounding areas will follow suit in no time flat, and it will grow from there like a plague from city to city and county to county... I can see an entire Chicagoland area, Rockford area, Springfield area out and Champaign-Urbana area carve out in the next year if the spineless allow the plague to get a footing... In a few years time we will be at the point where IL is carry only in name not in practice.... Hey, it's worked out for Hawaii, and they're not doing too bad: lots of beaches, fair weather year round! Who commits crime when the weather is nice? I'd trade carry for some nice beaches! Edit: spelling
vezpa Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:29 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:29 PM I believe they will sell out. Think of the worst possible situation, multiply it by 2 and that's what we will get. Please prove me wrong. .
BackForward Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:34 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:34 PM If we get carved out here in Cook County, there won't be much we can do when they come to carve out your area, except maybe to remind you that we told you so. Yep, if Chicago gets away with a carve out, you can BET with 100% certainty that the Chicago surrounding areas will follow suit in no time flat, and it will grow from there like a plague from city to city and county to county... I can see an entire Chicagoland area, Rockford area, Springfield area out and Champaign-Urbana area carve out in the next year if the spineless allow the plague to get a footing... In a few years time we will be at the point where IL is carry only in name not in practice.... It doesn't work that way, they would need to be included in the original bill if they wanted a Chicago style "may issue" carve out.
Jfl0 Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:37 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:37 PM Funny, a couple of weeks ago I asked if the downstate democrats would cave- and people were wondering if I was an idiot- like it could never possibly happen. I don't know if they will sell out, but I do know that my patience runs out June 9th if they don't pass shall issue.
RockerXX Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:45 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:45 PM It doesn't work that way, they would need to be included in the original bill if they wanted a Chicago style "may issue" carve out. Yes it does work that way... And you are absolutely wrong that they would need to be include in the original bill for it to happen as I said... NO enacted law is written in stone, never to be altered... That is a FACT! They can be amended or changed at will or voided all together all it takes is passing a new bill that changes the wording at a later date... Imagine that? But, hey you can deny reality and facts if it makes you feel better and gives your argument some ground stand on...
BackForward Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:49 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:49 PM It doesn't work that way, they would need to be included in the original bill if they wanted a Chicago style "may issue" carve out. Yes it does work that way... And you are absolutely wrong that they would need to be include in the original bill for it to happen as I said... NO enacted law is written in stone, never to be altered... That is a FACT! They can be amended or changed at will or voided all together all it takes is passing a new bill that changes the wording at a later date... But, hey you can deny reality and facts if it makes you feel better and gives your argument some ground stand on... It would take scrapping the entire bill, then re-writing it with these carve outs, and passing it again. That would be virtually impossible, plus none of those communities are currents trying to get "may" for themselves, only the city of Chicago.
mauserme Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:59 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 07:59 PM It doesn't work that way, they would need to be included in the original bill if they wanted a Chicago style "may issue" carve out. Yes it does work that way... And you are absolutely wrong that they would need to be include in the original bill for it to happen as I said... NO enacted law is written in stone, never to be altered... That is a FACT! They can be amended or changed at will or voided all together all it takes is passing a new bill that changes the wording at a later date... But, hey you can deny reality and facts if it makes you feel better and gives your argument some ground stand on... It would take scrapping the entire bill, then re-writing it with these carve outs, and passing it again. That would be virtually impossible, plus none of those communities are currents trying to get "may" for themselves, only the city of Chicago. This would depend on the actual wording in the bill. Once the original SB848 Raoul/Bivins compromise was shot down we've only heard rumors and innuendo about what that wording might be, at least publicly. Until something is filed you guys are arguing about things that have no specific answer.
RockerXX Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:07 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:07 PM It would take scrapping the entire bill, then re-writing it with these carve outs, and passing it again. Keep making things up that are not factual, it's become clear you need to take a civics class and get a grasp at how ideas become laws... The bill as possibly proposed HAS NOT PASSED, and is fluid until passed and signed into law, it has not been voted upon or even called for a vote so your claims that it would need to be totally scrapped and re-written is laughable as it's not even finalized or fully written as of now... Ever hear of amendments? I'll clue you in, they change the wording of a bill before it's finalized and voted into law, imagine that amending the language of a bill? And even if passed and signed into law the wording can be changed by simply passing and signing a new bill into law with different language that changes the written law, laws are not forever to believe otherwise is just ignorant... That would be virtually impossible, plus none of those communities are currents trying to get "may" for themselves, only the city of Chicago. Clearly you have not been paying attention... A few Chicago land surrounding communities have already expressed "What about Us" in these cut out debates, and I doubt the others I listed are far behind...
mauserme Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:16 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:16 PM Rocker, your scenario is entirely possible, but there are ways to accomplish what BackForward suggests too. As I said, it will depend on wording as yet to be made public.
Federal Farmer Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:26 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:26 PM Rocker, your scenario is entirely possible, but there are ways to accomplish what BackForward suggests too. As I said, it will depend on wording as yet to be made public. I beg to differ. There is nothing that could stop bills being filed next year or next session, whatever, that amend the act in any manner whatsoever. We could end the carve-out, for instance, or they could expand the carve-out. Absent an IL Constitutional amendment, any act of the state legislature can be amended in any way in any session.
mauserme Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:29 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:29 PM Rocker, your scenario is entirely possible, but there are ways to accomplish what BackForward suggests too. As I said, it will depend on wording as yet to be made public. I beg to differ. There is nothing that could stop bills being filed next year or next session, whatever, that amend the act in any manner whatsoever. We could end the carve-out, for instance, or they could expand the carve-out. Absent an IL Constitutional amendment, any act of the state legislature can be amended in any way in any session. That's a good point. I was thinking more within the current initiative but your broader perspective must also be kept in mind,
RockerXX Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:42 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:42 PM I beg to differ. There is nothing that could stop bills being filed next year or next session, whatever, that amend the act in any manner whatsoever. We could end the carve-out, for instance, or they could expand the carve-out. Absent an IL Constitutional amendment, any act of the state legislature can be amended in any way in any session. And that is my point, laws are simply not written in stone even when enacted, they can and will be changed at later dates for better or worse by simply passing new bills that re-write the existing wording of the law...
Mr. Fife Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:54 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:54 PM With 40% of the population carved out in the first carve out, that would make slicing up the remainder of the pie even easier. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
BobPistol Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:55 PM Posted May 14, 2013 at 08:55 PM This is a great case of FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD http://en.wikipedia....avours_the_bold That's why we MUST BE BOLD.
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