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Veterans / past military police and Illinois concealed carry requirements

veteran vet police mp

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#1 Manhappenin

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

To whom it may concern.

I know I got my answer by ways of private messages, but for a touch more clarity and to let everyone else in my situation know, what will the training requirements be for honorably discharged veterans, and specifically those that served as a military policeman or woman while they were serving? Can you share the specific wording in the proposed law that would allow for those people in those categories in regards to the required training to be in place so it would be more clear whether or not they should be signing up now for classes if need be?

Thanks.

#2 wtr100

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

seems to me it's way too early to know

just to be safe why not take an NRA pistol class or whatever?
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#3 Bud

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

You can read the Bill as it stands now but no amendments to clean up language or change direction have been added yet.

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#4 Manhappenin

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:55 AM

Because I know firearms very well, used to carry one or two daily when I served. Fired Expert on both the M9 and M-16A2. Whatever hoops I have to jump through I will happily do so, but I don't just do anything when it comes to firearms if not need be. Zero offense intended.

#5 Lou

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

http://ilga.gov/legi...cSess=&Session=



(i) Persons with the following training or certifications 19 are exempt from the requirements of subsection (a) of this 20 Section: 21 (1) An NRA certified instructor. 22 (2) An individual who has qualified to carry a firearm 23 as a retired law enforcement officer. 24 (3) Any active, retired, or honorably discharged 25 member of the armed forces who held a combat related 26 military occupation specialty (MOS).


Look up section 85 of the current bill. There will probably be amendments coming so this is tentative as of right now.

Edited by Lou, 20 February 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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#6 THE KING

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

As Bud said, read the bill as it stands now, but it may change before passage. Nobody really knows until it is in it's final draft what the requirements will be. So, hurry up and wait like the rest of us. Not trying to be sarcastic but nobody really knows what the requirements will be until it's put up for vote.

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#7 Manhappenin

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

I'm unclear then if an MP is considered a combat MOS.

#8 Retiredguns

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

I'd be for an exemption if possible but will do whatever is necessary. As a 2111 (weapons repair/Armorer) my daily carry duty weapon was an M1911 and later an M9 and of course with that we received ongoing deadly force training and required marksmanship qualifications. We just won't know until that time what they are going to hash out. The only thing that bums me out is the thought of waiting a year for a required class seat. After spending years in Utah it all seems so damn silly.
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#9 GWBH

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

No - that MOS falls under Combat Support.

Combat arms are Armor, Artillery, Combat Engineers and Infantry.
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#10 sctman800

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

IIRC and it has been since 1971 that I was discharged an MOS with a prefix of "11" was considered a combat MOS. As in 11B-infantry, 11D-recon etc. Please correct me if wrong. Jim.
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#11 wtr100

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

I'm unclear then if an MP is considered a combat MOS.


nobody knows yet - odds are it will be some clerk IF that language becomes law.

What about my case, I don't have a MOS as a Navy Veteran I have an NOC or Naval Officer Code of Surface Warfare Officer.
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#12 Smittyp83

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

Hurry up and wait.

The UN said I was a "non-combatant". The CVMA and VFW say otherwise.

We'll see how things shake out.
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#13 GWBH

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

IIRC and it has been since 1971 that I was discharged an MOS with a prefix of "11" was considered a combat MOS. As in 11B-infantry, 11D-recon etc. Please correct me if wrong. Jim.


Any 11B with a designator is an Infantryman - (11B20) and that is a Combart Arm of the US Army.

I'm unclear then if an MP is considered a combat MOS.


No - that MOS falls under Combat Support.

Combat arms are Armor, Artillery, Combat Engineers and Infantry.
Fire Support Base Ripcord Association - the heroes of the Vietnam War have their names on a wall in Washington, DC
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#14 jlowrie

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

37F pretty sure that this is firmly within the realm of combat support.

Although the either UN or NATO did list us as a "combatant" for Kosovo. This ended up getting the deployment pulled because our official policy was that we had no combat troops on the ground at that time. :flowers:
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#15 milq

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

I'd be for an exemption if possible but will do whatever is necessary. As a 2111 (weapons repair/Armorer) my daily carry duty weapon was an M1911 and later an M9 and of course with that we received ongoing deadly force training and required marksmanship qualifications.


Similar to me, I was 2171 and had live weapons to protect our classified stuff on a daily basis, not to mention that you could be directly attached to Regimental TOW units. I was right next door to the 2111 shop at 2d Maint. btw, in case you were there at some point.
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#16 Agney5

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:50 PM


I'd be for an exemption if possible but will do whatever is necessary. As a 2111 (weapons repair/Armorer) my daily carry duty weapon was an M1911 and later an M9 and of course with that we received ongoing deadly force training and required marksmanship qualifications.


Similar to me, I was 2171 and had live weapons to protect our classified stuff on a daily basis, not to mention that you could be directly attached to Regimental TOW units. I was right next door to the 2111 shop at 2d Maint. btw, in case you were there at some point.

Another 2171 here I was also at 2nd Maintance, granted I just got out in 2011. Was Bruce Brady there while you were there, he has been around for a very long time.

#17 RandyP

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

My Army PMOS was 57F - assigned to the Quartrenaster Corps - which I am pretty sure was not considered Combat, though fer damn sure it is combat related.

#18 CplHunter

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:38 PM



I'd be for an exemption if possible but will do whatever is necessary. As a 2111 (weapons repair/Armorer) my daily carry duty weapon was an M1911 and later an M9 and of course with that we received ongoing deadly force training and required marksmanship qualifications.


Similar to me, I was 2171 and had live weapons to protect our classified stuff on a daily basis, not to mention that you could be directly attached to Regimental TOW units. I was right next door to the 2111 shop at 2d Maint. btw, in case you were there at some point.

Another 2171 here I was also at 2nd Maintance, granted I just got out in 2011. Was Bruce Brady there while you were there, he has been around for a very long time.

Small world. I was a 2171 attached to 6th Marines Regimental TOW plt in 97-98, and then with 2nd Maint Bn Fire Control from 98-2000. Bruce was there back then. Floyd break!

#19 Agney5

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

Small world. I was a 2171 attached to 6th Marines Regimental TOW plt in 97-98, and then with 2nd Maint Bn Fire Control from 98-2000. Bruce was there back then. Floyd break!


Bruce is still a grouchy old man! Good guy, but his health isn't the greatest these days though.

#20 milq

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

Small world. I was a 2171 attached to 6th Marines Regimental TOW plt in 97-98, and then with 2nd Maint Bn Fire Control from 98-2000. Bruce was there back then. Floyd break!


Will wonders never cease? We should know each other! I was at Fire Control 96-99. I'll shoot you a PM later on when I get a chance.

Kind of interesting that 2171 is such a small MOS and 3 of us (at least) are on here.

Mr. B could be a lot of fun but he could also be pretty hard to deal with when he wanted to be.
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#21 GWBH

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

Guys - it doesn't matter what your military experience is with firearms IF the bill states that a PMOS in a Combat Arm of the military excludes you from taking a training course to satisfy the requirement for a CCW permit.

A door gunner on a Huey gunship in ViteNam would have tons of experience with an M60 - have fired a zillion rounds - but if his PMOS is a Crew Chief he would not qualify as a serving in a Combat Arm.
Military Police also have considerable experience - but, again, they are not considered a Combat Arm of the US Army.
(Can't speak to the Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force or Marine Corps)

That said, this is all hypothetical anyway as we have not seen the bill in it's final form.
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#22 Indigo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:12 PM


I'm unclear then if an MP is considered a combat MOS.


nobody knows yet - odds are it will be some clerk IF that language becomes law.

What about my case, I don't have a MOS as a Navy Veteran I have an NOC or Naval Officer Code of Surface Warfare Officer.


So you would be exempted from training for any firearm caliber 5 inches or larger? :cool:
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#23 Bud

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

Actually military police are considered combat arms now as are aviation.

What makes the decision is the Direct Combat Probability Code which restricts some MOS to men only. In the old days, Infantry, Armor, Cavalry and Artillary and Combat engineers were the only Branches that were considered "Combat assignments" but that has vastly changed. but later that was changed

but as far as I am concerned, it doesn't really matter. Restricting it to a Combat MOS (which is ridiculous, there is no such thing anymore) completely eliminates women because of the DCPC which is incredible on its face.

As far as "combat MOS" would you consider "truck driver" a combat MOS?

probably not, but on January 8, 1968 I saw Sp4 Gary Wetzel, who held an MOS as 64C or truck driver, earn the Medal of Honor in a landing zone near Tan Tru, South Vietnam. He was flying as a door gunner on a Huey lift ship at the time, but his MOS was truck driver.

or how about Sgt Leigh Ann Hester, the first woman to earn the nation's third hoighest valor award, the Silver Star, in combat in Iraq:

Leigh Ann Hester

Kind of read of her heroism descibed in the citation of the Silver Star and claim that she didn't have a combat MOS and couldn't handle any weapon that she came across.

Edited by Bud, 20 February 2013 - 10:27 PM.

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#24 GWBH

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

Actually military police are considered combat arms now as are aviation.

What makes the decision is the Direct Combat Probability Code which restricts some MOS to men only. In the old days, Infantry, Armor, Cavalry and Artillary and Combat engineers were the only Branches that were considered "Combat assignments" but that has vastly changed. but later that was changed

but as far as I am concerned, it doesn't really matter. Restricting it to a Combat MOS (which is ridiculous, there is no such thing anymore) completely eliminates women because of the DCPC which is incredible on its face.

As far as "combat MOS" would you consider "truck driver" a combat MOS?

probably not, but on January 8, 1968 I saw Sp4 Gary Wetzel, who held an MOS as 64C or truck driver, earn the Medal of Honor in a landing zone near Tan Tru, South Vietnam. He was flying as a door gunner on a Huey lift ship at the time, but his MOS was truck driver.

or how about Sgt Leigh Ann Hester, the first woman to earn the nation's third hoighest valor award, the Silver Star, in combat in Iraq:

Leigh Ann Hester

Kind of read of her heroism descibed in the citation of the Silver Star and claim that she didn't have a combat MOS and couldn't handle any weapon that she came across.


I stand corrected - I was basing my answers on a 1969 US Army code. That said, I was an 11B20P - which doesn't mean squat until the final bill comes out of the ILGA.
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#25 stm

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:51 AM

I think Bud has a good point. Any honorably discharged person should have their training requirements met by presenting their DD214. Combat MOS is rather arbitrary. I was a 31K, COMBAT Signaler. Never touched a rifle in AIT, rarely saw one when assigned to my unit. But with the word "combat" in the title, you might think differently.

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#26 wtr100

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:27 AM



I'm unclear then if an MP is considered a combat MOS.


nobody knows yet - odds are it will be some clerk IF that language becomes law.

What about my case, I don't have a MOS as a Navy Veteran I have an NOC or Naval Officer Code of Surface Warfare Officer.


So you would be exempted from training for any firearm caliber 5 inches or larger? :cool:


stand back I don't know how big ....

:frantics:
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#27 Molly B.

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

This section of the bill is still being worked on -
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#28 j2dawson

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

This section of the bill is still being worked on -

I'm glad because so far it looks like only exArmy vets would qualify.

#29 GWBH

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

This section of the bill is still being worked on -


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ishmo, "L" Company 75th Infantry (RANGER) 101st Airborne Division (VietNam 1968 - 1969 / 1970 - 1971 )
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