142 replies to this topic

[frankw438]

RECarry, on 19 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Even if Goodman was correct in his wild claim that "the majority of people don't want concealed carry" that matters not one whit.  It's a constitutional right for each individual to decide for themselves what level of self-defense they want inside and outside the home.  Why should the "majority" of people be consulted when it will always be a minority of people who are victims of rape, assault, attempted murder, abduction, stabbing, etc. The "majority" of people probably never think about self-defense proactively, so what makes "the majority" qualified to decide for those who do not want to be victimized.  This idiot has no idea what the Constitution means to individuals (as opposed to tyrants, mobs, uneducated masses, etc.).

Our Constitution was designed to protect the rights of the MINORITY.

[RECarry]

frankw438, on 19 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

RECarry, on 19 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Even if Goodman was correct in his wild claim that "the majority of people don't want concealed carry" that matters not one whit.  It's a constitutional right for each individual to decide for themselves what level of self-defense they want inside and outside the home.  Why should the "majority" of people be consulted when it will always be a minority of people who are victims of rape, assault, attempted murder, abduction, stabbing, etc. The "majority" of people probably never think about self-defense proactively, so what makes "the majority" qualified to decide for those who do not want to be victimized.  This idiot has no idea what the Constitution means to individuals (as opposed to tyrants, mobs, uneducated masses, etc.).

Our Constitution was designed to protect the rights of the MINORITY.

My thought is the Constitution protects individual rights. Counting heads has nothing to do with it - minority or majority.

[frankw438]

RECarry, on 19 May 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

frankw438, on 19 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

RECarry, on 19 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Even if Goodman was correct in his wild claim that "the majority of people don't want concealed carry" that matters not one whit.  It's a constitutional right for each individual to decide for themselves what level of self-defense they want inside and outside the home.  Why should the "majority" of people be consulted when it will always be a minority of people who are victims of rape, assault, attempted murder, abduction, stabbing, etc. The "majority" of people probably never think about self-defense proactively, so what makes "the majority" qualified to decide for those who do not want to be victimized.  This idiot has no idea what the Constitution means to individuals (as opposed to tyrants, mobs, uneducated masses, etc.).

Our Constitution was designed to protect the rights of the MINORITY.

My thought is the Constitution protects individual rights. Counting heads has nothing to do with it - minority or majority.

Yeah, I can go along with that. I'll rephrase.

Our Constitution was designed to protect our rights from the passing whims of a simple majority.

[RockerXX]

Can you imagine life as Lee, being deathly afraid of an inanimate object?  How does he even gather the courage to venture outside, especially in Chicago...

[C0untZer0]

I don't understand how violent felons don't make him feel unsafe, or how a cell phone and a few security cameras here and there make him feel safe given the situation in Chicago, but a few law-abiding citizens carrying firearms terrifies him and makes him think he's going to get shot.

[Glock23]

C0untZer0, on 20 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I don't understand how violent felons don't make him feel unsafe, or how a cell phone and a few security cameras here and there make him feel safe given the situation in Chicago, but a few law-abiding citizens carrying firearms terrifies him and makes him think he's going to get shot.

I've spoken to antis who have pretty much the same fears.  Their logic: they can avoid the "bad areas of town," thereby avoiding most of the "thugs with guns."  With legal CCW, guns will be in the good parts of town as well.

[dorvinion]

RECarry, on 19 May 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

My thought is the Constitution protects individual rights. Counting heads has nothing to do with it - minority or majority.

I kinda think of it this way. The smallest minority is the individual.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[C0untZer0]

Twenty years ago you could avoid the "bad parts" of Chicago, but the people from the bad parts are using public transportation to go practically everywhere in Chicago now, including downtown and the Gold Coast, the beaches, the parks, including Navy Pier.  And when the bad people get to where they're going - they do bad things.

But I don't expect rabid anti-gunners to understand it.  They have their head in the sand concerning the reality of safety, but they're completely over the top and unrealistic about they're odds of being shot by a citizen defending themselves.

I think it's more than just fear of being in the crossfire, I don't know what all else it is though.

[sctman800]

C0untZer0, on 20 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Twenty years ago you could avoid the "bad parts" of Chicago, but the people from the bad parts are using public transportation to go practically everywhere in Chicago now, including downtown and the Gold Coast, the beaches, the parks, including Navy Pier.  And when the bad people get to where they're going - they do bad things.

Not to worry, if a bill is passed that does not include carry on public transportation them the bad guys won't be able to take their guns with them when they go to the good parts of town.  Problem solved.   Jim.

[RockerXX]

C0untZer0, on 20 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Twenty years ago you could avoid the "bad parts" of Chicago, but the people from the bad parts are using public transportation to go practically everywhere in Chicago now, including downtown and the Gold Coast, the beaches, the parks, including Navy Pier.  And when the bad people get to where they're going - they do bad things.

Lets not forget that Chicago has been kicking the people out of and knocking down those 'bad' parts of the town...  The people have been relocated to other areas and they didn't all the sudden become model citizens just because they are now living in a different neighborhood...

I saw this happen in the Round Lake area give or take 20 years ago, they relocated a bunch of Section 8 people from Chicago projects, into Section 8 housing in the 'burbs' in an attempt at betterment for them...  Regardless of where the people live they are still the same people, and they brought their baggage with them...

[Indigo]

"You can take the boy off the farm, but you can't take the farm out of the boy."  This applies to other conditions as well.  I've seen the same process over the past 20 years in my neighborhood on the north side of Chicago.  Some of the Section 8 assisted families are good people, but some are pure trash.

[RockerXX]

Indigo, on 21 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Some of the Section 8 assisted families are good people, but some are pure trash.

Yeah, don't get me wrong there are plenty of good people on Section 8 housing that are just on hard times, but still of good moral character (no pun intended)...

When they ripped down Cabrini–Green the good and bad people living there were relocated somewhere...  Relocating them didn't eliminated the culture and problems associated with Cabrini–Green it just spread it out over a larger Chicagoland area and it was a pretend fix that looked good only on the surface because it was no longer a concentrated sore spot...  Chicago's continuing violent crime problems are proof it did nothing but change the perceived appearance of a few city blocks...

Edited by RockerXX, 21 May 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[BShawn]

RockerXX, on 20 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Can you imagine life as Lee, being deathly afraid of an inanimate object?  How does he even gather the courage to venture outside, especially in Chicago...

Oh, currently he doesn't have to worry at all, since nobody carries a firearm in Chicago except police (or other authorized governmental agencies/persons) <.<

[RockerXX]

BShawn, on 21 May 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

RockerXX, on 20 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Can you imagine life as Lee, being deathly afraid of an inanimate object?  How does he even gather the courage to venture outside, especially in Chicago...

Oh, currently he doesn't have to worry at all, since nobody carries a firearm in Chicago except police (or other authorized governmental agencies/persons) <.<

LOL, someone needs to go to his events with a megaphone plugged into a Chicago Citywide scanner, with a big sign that says "Yep, NO need to defend ourselves in this city!" in bold purple...

[skinnyb82]

My audit professor from when I did my accounting degree grew up in Cabrini Green.  He always talked about how he was from the hood.  Ironically he was fired for his violent temper heh.

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[C0untZer0]

It took Lee Goodman a while to recover from shock but he finally put out a statement"

Quote

Ultimate Betrayal !

C0untZer0,

Democratic leader Michael Madigan is cooperating with the representative who sponsored the NRA's bill to push for concealed carry in Illinois. The bill is scheduled for a vote this Friday, May 24. The Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, which has worked for decades for gun-safety legislation, calls the bill “dangerous” and says “This bill, while being put forth as a 'compromise' bill, is in fact bad public policy!”

The bill is nearly identical to the NRA's previous bill. It allows people to carry guns in cars and into most public places including on sidewalks, bike paths and some forest preserves. It also allows people to carry guns into private locations, including offices, stores, movie theaters, many bars and restaurants, factories, stores, churches, doctors' and lawyers' offices, pharmacies, barber and beauty shops, banks, currency exchanges, gas stations, and taxi cabs, unless the property owners post signs banning guns. People would also be allowed to carry concealed guns into other people's homes and properties unless the property owners expressly told them not to.

The minimal restrictions that the bill places on getting a concealed carry permit are essentially the same as the present qualifications for getting an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification Card (FOID), which means that most people who can now legally own a gun will also be able to get concealed carry permits.

In addition, the bill throws out gun safety laws that municipalities have already enacted, such as laws prohibiting discharge of guns within city limits, bans on firing ranges and gun shops near schools, bans on certain types of weapons, and laws requiring safe storage of guns when children are present. The bill expressly prohibits municipalities from enacting any new restrictions on guns whatsoever.

Because this bill does virtually nothing to protect the public from the threat of concealed weapons in most places and increases the threat of gun violence in general, I continue to urge that no bill be passed.

We have stood together this far. Please do not give up. There is still work to do, and we can still win. Please phone your legislators today and tell them to vote NO on all concealed carry bills. Then call attorney general Lisa Madigan and ask her to do her job and appeal.

Thank you for all that you have done. We have formed a remarkable coalition. Keep hope alive.

Lee Goodman, for the Coalition
Lee@StopConcealedCarry.org

[KarlJ]

Mr. Goodman has a bad habit or misrepresenting the facts.  Never trust a liar.

[BShawn]

C0untZer0, on 23 May 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

It took Lee Goodman a while to recover from shock but he finally put out a statement"

Quote

Ultimate Betrayal !

C0untZer0,

Democratic leader Michael Madigan is cooperating with the representative who sponsored the NRA's bill to push for concealed carry in Illinois. The bill is scheduled for a vote this Friday, May 24. The Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, which has worked for decades for gun-safety legislation, calls the bill “dangerous” and says “This bill, while being put forth as a 'compromise' bill, is in fact bad public policy!”

The bill is nearly identical to the NRA's previous bill. It allows people to carry guns in cars and into most public places including on sidewalks, bike paths and some forest preserves. It also allows people to carry guns into private locations, including offices, stores, movie theaters, many bars and restaurants, factories, stores, churches, doctors' and lawyers' offices, pharmacies, barber and beauty shops, banks, currency exchanges, gas stations, and taxi cabs, unless the property owners post signs banning guns. People would also be allowed to carry concealed guns into other people's homes and properties unless the property owners expressly told them not to.

The minimal restrictions that the bill places on getting a concealed carry permit are essentially the same as the present qualifications for getting an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification Card (FOID), which means that most people who can now legally own a gun will also be able to get concealed carry permits.

In addition, the bill throws out gun safety laws that municipalities have already enacted, such as laws prohibiting discharge of guns within city limits, bans on firing ranges and gun shops near schools, bans on certain types of weapons, and laws requiring safe storage of guns when children are present. The bill expressly prohibits municipalities from enacting any new restrictions on guns whatsoever.

Because this bill does virtually nothing to protect the public from the threat of concealed weapons in most places and increases the threat of gun violence in general, I continue to urge that no bill be passed.

We have stood together this far. Please do not give up. There is still work to do, and we can still win. Please phone your legislators today and tell them to vote NO on all concealed carry bills. Then call attorney general Lisa Madigan and ask her to do her job and appeal.

Thank you for all that you have done. We have formed a remarkable coalition. Keep hope alive.

Lee Goodman, for the Coalition
Lee@StopConcealedCarry.org

Yea, because I invite complete strangers in to my house on a regular basis >.< (not to mention isn't it technically already legal anyway, IE: you invite your friend over, and he's 'packin' while he's in your house [or am I wrong?])...

/epic facepalm

[Burtonrider10022]

BShawn, on 23 May 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yea, because I invite complete strangers in to my house on a regular basis >.< (not to mention isn't it technically already legal anyway, IE: you invite your friend over, and he's 'packin' while he's in your house [or am I wrong?])...

/epic facepalm

I believe you are correct.  Just as you may carry on your own land (unless in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Chicago) you may authorize others to do so as well.

[handyflyer]

Any email from on after the vote? I'm dying to here the sky is falling (literally........with bullets and black guns)

[skinnyb82]

Oh God I would've paid a lot of money to have been in the same room as him when that vote went down.  He probably came close to having a nervous breakdown and uttering "tornado of guns....tornado of guns....tornado of guns...." repeatedly hahaha.

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[TyGuy]

Tornado of guns?

[C0untZer0]

I think he's in shock, or so disheartened that he's not able to do anything.  Right after the vote he posted the vote tally on the Facebook page with only this comment:

Quote

Illinois House passed concealed carry today, SB2193,

Yes-85,
No-30,
Present-1,
excused-2

Here is how your representative voted:

The Facebook page has been completely silent - no calls for action or petitioning President Cullerton or Lisa Madigan or Governor Quinn or anything.  And he hasn't sent out any mails either.