andarm16 Posted January 22, 2013 at 07:32 AM Posted January 22, 2013 at 07:32 AM I just sent out the application for my C&R license. I know it's the only way to acquire an SBR in IL, and it also appears to have other value, considering the types of guns that I'm interested in. (Early twentieth century semi autos) At first, I didn't think anything of the inspection requirement. Sure, I knew the BATFE could request an inspection of my records, and that basically I'm opening myself to a higher level of scrutiny then the average person. (Actually, considering how I live in the DPRC (Democratic People's Republic of Carbondale) I was a bit more worried about the locals than the G-Men) Then I read this thread form another forum. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?79024-Atf-amp-c-amp-r-Inspection-Completed-Notes-on-Page-4 where on page after page, countless posters declare their absolute desire never to have anything to do with a C&R license. Other than the SBR perk, am I wrong in thinking this is a good thing? Does anyone here currently have a C&R? If so, have you ever been visited by BATFE?
RockerXX Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:20 AM Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:20 AM If you a responsible gun owner, acting as a true collector and keep your books/records in order what are you worried about? The problem lies with lazy people that get it to look 'cool' or be 'hip' and never bother to actually follow the rules (probably never even bothered to read them), then complain to no end how awful it is as they scream victim... Remember the ATF agent doing the inspecting is just a pencil pusher, give him something proper to look at and sign off on and he is likely going to be polite and happy... But, if you are not holding up to your end of the deal expect to get spanked...
sleepercaprice1 Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:23 AM Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:23 AM I've found that it really isn't much of a hassle at all and the dealer discounts make up for the cost of the license quickly even if you don't take advantage of the firearm purchasing oppurtunities.
andarm16 Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:48 AM Author Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:48 AM I've found that it really isn't much of a hassle at all and the dealer discounts make up for the cost of the license quickly even if you don't take advantage of the firearm purchasing oppurtunities. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, I guess I just wanted the reassurance of someone else saying it. I mean, $30 for the license is just the cost of one transfer for me. If I do a face to face transaction in another state, (for a C&R firearm obviously) am I still subject to the IL waiting period? (IE: If I bought a gun in IN would I have to wait 3 days, or could I take possession immediately?)
howie Posted January 22, 2013 at 10:29 AM Posted January 22, 2013 at 10:29 AM I've had mine for close to 6 years, never been inspected. The discounts are nice, I order from Brownell's from time to time, and can cover the cost of the license with one order. Haven't decided whether I will renew or not....
Geneseo1911 Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:06 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:06 PM -I'm not certain I've ever read about a C&R getting inspected. I believe the rules are different as well, they have to call ahead and set an appointment. If you aren't doing something odd or illegal, I think your chances of getting checked up on are VERY low. Frankly, someone who goes through the trouble to get licensed to further their collection is the least of ATF's worries.-Waiting period does not apply for licensees, in the case of a C&R, it must be eligible under your license.-A licensee can also ignore state lines. You can use your license to buy (again C&R list guns only) out of state, FTF. My 03A3 came from MO, and my Carbine from IN.-The Midway, Brownells, and other discount EASILY pay for the $3o in my case-The only downside is that your safe will very quickly fill with eligible guns. I have a healthy collection of WW2 rifles I would not have purchased if they were not shipped right to my door. Gunboards trading post is a great place to find things to spend money on.
il.bill Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:37 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:37 PM -The only downside is that your safe will very quickly fill with eligible guns. I have a healthy collection of WW2 rifles I would not have purchased if they were not shipped right to my door. This is the only real downside I have found too. The record keeping requirements are minimal for me, since I like to note information on all my firearm purchases and sales anyway. It is just so darn easy to buy that eligible CZ82 or Tokarev Yugo M57 for $200 delivered. A C&R 03FFL can drain your bank account or load up your credit card if you are not careful. So many 'bargains' and 'deals' are out there that the temptation can be strong, especially when they are delivered to your front door with no transfer fee. The only reason I could see to ever not renew my C&R License would be if I could finally admit that I had enough guns.
Onytay Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:52 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 01:52 PM I've read of a few people getting pulled for an inspection. You have a choice to allow them to come to your house or taking your records to the local office. I've renewed 1 time and never been pulled for an inspection. Wouldn't matter I have yet to acquire any firearms with my license yet. The discounts through Midway & Brownells will pay for the license in the first order or 2.
RandyP Posted January 22, 2013 at 02:04 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 02:04 PM At out of State gun shows a C&R purchase is cash and carry. That alone makes it worthwhile to me. As has been stated, if you are following the rules, buyiing for yourself only, and keeping the minimal records required? No negatives come to mind. I live within the Chicago city limits (sucks to be me - lol) so most online vendors of C&R firearms will not ship to me direct.
skinnyb82 Posted January 22, 2013 at 04:50 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 04:50 PM I was about ready to hit "send" on my C&R application until I read the part about consenting to release ALL of my, well, every record that exists on me. Medical, criminal (just one stupid DUI), etc.
scough Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:04 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:04 PM What are the actual requirements? Do you have to have a specific quality of a safe, and other things? How long does it take? Does anyone know where the online application is?
Onytay Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:15 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:15 PM What are the actual requirements? Do you have to have a specific quality of a safe, and other things? How long does it take? Does anyone know where the online application is? APP here, http://www.atf.gov/f...f-f-5310-16.pdf no safe requirement and mine took a couple of months. All that is need is an A & D record, ( Bound Book ) Copy of A&D here http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8986
andarm16 Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:22 PM Author Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:22 PM -I'm not certain I've ever read about a C&R getting inspected. I believe the rules are different as well, they have to call ahead and set an appointment. If you aren't doing something odd or illegal, I think your chances of getting checked up on are VERY low. Frankly, someone who goes through the trouble to get licensed to further their collection is the least of ATF's worries.-Waiting period does not apply for licensees, in the case of a C&R, it must be eligible under your license.-A licensee can also ignore state lines. You can use your license to buy (again C&R list guns only) out of state, FTF. My 03A3 came from MO, and my Carbine from IN.-The Midway, Brownells, and other discount EASILY pay for the $3o in my case-The only downside is that your safe will very quickly fill with eligible guns. I have a healthy collection of WW2 rifles I would not have purchased if they were not shipped right to my door. Gunboards trading post is a great place to find things to spend money on.So no waiting period for C&R articles where both parties are Illinois residents (Or an Illinois FFL at an Illinois gun show) as well?
scough Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:56 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 05:56 PM Thanks alot Onytay! On this book, do you have to document all of the personal weapons you already have prior to the application? Some are 10+ years old and/or hand downs after my Dad passed in 1995 that I never had receipts? I do however have records for anything acquired in the last 10 years.
Onytay Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:01 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:01 PM My understanding is no....the record is for C&R firearms only. It is suggested by some that if you have C&R eligible firearms at the time that you obtain the license and cant provide documentation of when they were purchased to go ahead and log them in the book as a safe measure, so as to not raise an eyebrow during an inspection. Otherwise the record is only for firearms obtained using your C&R FFL.
scough Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:17 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:17 PM Ah, so this is only for C&R lists weapons? In other words, if I buy a Ruger 10/22 for my kid, I don't have to log it? Just C&R lists items I might buy? Thanks again!
Onytay Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:21 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:21 PM Ah, so this is only for C&R lists weapons? In other words, if I buy a Ruger 10/22 for my kid, I don't have to log it? Just C&R lists items I might buy? Thanks again! Yes sir C&R only in record book. License only allows you to buy C&R eligible firearms. All others are purchased the same way through an FFL dealer.
McCroskey Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:23 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 06:23 PM I dunno who would complain about C&R being a pain... it's a decent amount of paperwork to apply, but it's not hard at all to follow the rules. All you have to do is keep your log book in order and follow the same laws other firearm owners have to follow. There are some lazy people out there!
Geneseo1911 Posted January 22, 2013 at 07:16 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 07:16 PM So no waiting period for C&R articles where both parties are Illinois residents (Or an Illinois FFL at an Illinois gun show) as well? IANAL, but that is my understanding. The waiting period law exempts licensees, and a C&R holder is a licensee for the purpose of anything on the list or 50+ yrs. old. Any modern gun you own does not have to be logged, nor does any C&R you owned prior to becoming licensed. ANY C&R you acquire after you receive your license, regardless of if you used your license to acquire it, must be logged.
Jason4567 Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:01 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:01 PM -The Midway, Brownells, and other discount EASILY pay for the $3o in my case How much are the discounts? I live within the Chicago city limits (sucks to be me - lol) so most online vendors of C&R firearms will not ship to me direct. Well that takes away a lot of it's usefulness. I guess there is little point to get it then.
RandyP Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:21 PM Posted January 22, 2013 at 08:21 PM there is little point (from a firearms aspect) to remaining in Illinois in general - LOL - but the cash & carry of C&R firearms at out-of-state gun shows is a nicety. I suspect that no matter what laws Illinois ever passes, Chicago will remain on vendors' fecal roster.
andarm16 Posted January 23, 2013 at 01:10 AM Author Posted January 23, 2013 at 01:10 AM At out of State gun shows a C&R purchase is cash and carry. That alone makes it worthwhile to me. As has been stated, if you are following the rules, buyiing for yourself only, and keeping the minimal records required? No negatives come to mind. I live within the Chicago city limits (sucks to be me - lol) so most online vendors of C&R firearms will not ship to me direct.Just a couple more questions. Does C&R only work for gun shows, or does it also apply to brick and mortar gun shops. (Never mind that the good stuff is much more likely to come out at a gun show)
Geneseo1911 Posted January 23, 2013 at 01:19 AM Posted January 23, 2013 at 01:19 AM It is a license, so it works for private sellers or dealers. NOW..... SOME dealer's may balk and want you to do the 4473/Brady song & dance because they don't know the rules, but for anything on the list, your license works just like theirs. I was going over my inventory spreadsheet, updating values for my insurance, which I do annually. I saw something that made me laugh....out of my last 18 purchases, 14 were bought with my C&R. When I say it will fill your safe...I mean it!
Onytay Posted January 23, 2013 at 03:02 AM Posted January 23, 2013 at 03:02 AM I'm one of the few people in the world who doesn't own a printer. I ordered the forms through the ATF website but does anyone know how long it usually takes for them to send it out? Answered in other thread.
Tvandermyde Posted January 23, 2013 at 02:27 PM Posted January 23, 2013 at 02:27 PM Guys -- the C&R has a couple of applications. 1. it allows you to buy those firearms considered to be curio and relics across state lines2. It allows you to buy them without a waiting period.3. It allows ytou to own/possess any SBR you get approval for from ATF.** NOTE that the SBR feature is not normally part fo the C&R license, but a change in state law that treats the C&R as a defacto FOID card for SBRs in Illinois.
Federal Farmer Posted January 23, 2013 at 03:19 PM Posted January 23, 2013 at 03:19 PM For those subject to Cook County or municipal ordinances such as Chicago, this state law does not preempt local bans that may apply, unfortunately. I don't know yet if it is possible to fill out the Form-1 using an alternate address. The C&R FFL is tied to a physical address, which for me is my home address in Chicago. However, it does allow for an alternate storage address. It seems to me that the alternate address should be allowed to be specified on the Form-1. Any legal beagles care to offer free legal advice on this?
il.bill Posted January 24, 2013 at 08:16 AM Posted January 24, 2013 at 08:16 AM My understanding is no....the record is for C&R firearms only. It is suggested by some that if you have C&R eligible firearms at the time that you obtain the license and cant provide documentation of when they were purchased to go ahead and log them in the book as a safe measure, so as to not raise an eyebrow during an inspection. Otherwise the record is only for firearms obtained using your C&R FFL. A C&R eligible firearm already in your possession when you receive your 03 FFL Collector's License does NOT need to be entered in your Bound Book unless or until you would sell it while your are a license holder. In that case you would enter it 'In' as coming from your private collection acquired before receiving your license and 'Out' the same day with the proper disposition information. The 03 FFL Bound Book must contain the required info on every eligible firearm bought OR sold while a C&R License holder.
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