14 replies to this topic

[Dr. G]

In the post on the sold out event at the ICE Chatham Theaters last Thursday the first person to respond wrote the following comment:

"Look at those addresses. You would have to bring a gun to see the movie"!

The implication in that comment as I see it, is that the neighborhood is so dangerous that you shouldn't go there without a gun. The unstated implication is that if its a movie about "Black Power" it is being shown in a Black neighborhood and therefore  is automatically in an unsafe location!  First, I would seriously question when the last time the poster was on 87th and Laffyette to have any idea what the neighborhood was like.  Secondly, and even more importantly, the unstated implication is that he doesn't need to take a gun to go to the movies in his neighborhood, after all, he lives somewhere "SAFE".

I contend that comments like this not only have racial undertones, but intelligence undertones as well.  Dumb criminals commit crimes in high crime areas, conversely, smart criminals commit crimes in low crime areas because the people in those areas consider themselves and their location "safe".  I contend that those living in what they perceive to be "safe" areas are more susceptible to being victimized by violent crime than those in high crime areas, because they have a false sense of security.  My contention is that one should be ever vigilant regardless as to where you are.  As a case in point let me submit this following quip from one of my instructors:

Nasty confrontation avoided?  This from a student in the  Midwest:

"Yesterday evening, my wife and I were out on our usual evening walk.   We
live in a quiet, upscale, suburban neighborhood.

Suddenly, a local taxicab came up behind us, beeped his horn, slowed to a
stop, and, through the open passenger-side window, the driver asked, '...
where's the closest gas station?'

I kept my distance, as I thought it odd a local cab driver would ask such a
question.  My support-side hand grabbed my flashlight (it was dusk), while
my strong-side hand immediately reached into my front pocket and acquired
a  firm, master-grip on my S&W J-frame revolver.  The revolver remained  out
of sight, but I was confident I could draw it quickly when necessary.

Foolishly, I began to answer the driver's question concerning gas
stations.  I should have adhered to my training and politely dismissed  him.

My hesitation opened the door!

The passenger-side, rear door suddenly flung open, and a passenger rapidly
got out, yelling in an angry voice, 'Where the hell is Byron Street?'  He
stayed behind the door, where I could not see his hands.

Now, I knew I was in trouble!  I bladed my stance, stepped to the  side,
glanced behind me, and said loudly and emphatically, 'I'm sorry,  gentlemen,
but we can't help you!'  My wife moved behind me.

Without another word, the passenger quickly got back inside, closed the
door, and the cab sped away.  No weapon was ever brandished, and the entire
affair consumed less than ten seconds!

We made it home safely.  Never saw the cab again.

Lessons confirmed:

1) Don't get too comfortable, no matter how familiar the setting

2) Go armed!  Your pistol and flashlight need to be always on you and
ready to be deployed at a moment's notice

3) Don't blunder into the spider's web!  Be alert.  Don't answer
questions.  Keep your distance.  Move laterally.  Aggressively  disengage and
separate.

4) Have a plan!  People with you need to know their role too."

Comment:

I've used this quotation before, but it is eminently appropriate  here:

"A superior man, when resting in safety, forgets not that peril is ever
present.  When in a state of security, he forgets not that ruin is only a
breath away.  When all is orderly, he forgets not that chaos ever hovers  over
him.

Thus, his state and clans are preserved."

Confucius

Whenever CCW comes to Illinois, I would absolutely take my gun to a movie in "the hood"  with me, but I would also take it downtown to the Civic Opera House, the Botanical Gerdens, 6 Flags Amusement park,  and ANYWHERE ELSE  I happen to be.  "Safety" is a perception at best that can instantaniously change any time, any where, regardless of your racial/ cultural/ social background or makeup or the racial/cultural/social makeup of those around you.  Anyone who doesn't think that white people commit crimes against each other need to check the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics!

Am I reading too much into his initial comment?  I don't think so.

[vezpa]

If someone thinks you need a gun to go into a neighborhood like Chatham , the need for CCW is all the more obvious.

Edited by vezpa, 07 August 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Bud]

Yes and no

I have always taught my children that perception becomes reality. What people see is what they will believe.

Every single night, at noon and every morning when we get up, those of us who watch Chicago TV stations are barraged with the numbers of folks being shot, run over, stabbed and even beaten in all neighborhoods of the City but most especially the neighborhoods on the south and west sides. Two shot, seven shot sometimes seventeen shot and many of them are babies, little children being shot while they are on swings in parks, while they are sitting on their porches and even when they are enjoying the cool water from a water hydrant.

Every day, night and day cold weather and hot, down town, uptown, Lakewood, Grisham and Garfield.

The death toll in Chicago has been compared to the war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan,. The local news rotates into the network news and there it is again, Chicago is murder city of the nation.

Is it racist? To an extent, probably because the shooters are predominantly black and hispanic. But then so are most of  the victims.

I am southern by birth and early childhood and i also worked the westside of Chicago  as a cop for eight years and I can tell you from my personal experience, Chicago is the most segragated city in the country.

We are kept segragated by politicians and preachers who like the status quo and who will do everything in their considerable power to keep us segragated because they know that if we ever start acting together as one community, their days in power will be short lived.

I spent years working in Chicago and most of my friends at work were African-American and with one exception, none of them would ever come visit my home.

I live in a very rural area and they were scared by their perception of what the people were like where I live. I was considered the exception, some how different then those where I lived.

That was their perception and I could understand it because I knew how the people felt where i lived.

We have corrupt politicians in Illinois but they are also insidious because they know they dare not let us get together. As long as we are divided, we remain conquered.

My apologies for whoever made the post. I am sure he did not mean it in a racial way but was commenting instead of what Chicago is like.

I wish i could speak to a large group of Chicago residents so I can explain to them how racist the gun laws are, what the history behind them is and why they were written. But a Chicago newspaper is not going to publish a op ed from me and a Chicago TV news department is not interested in my opinion so that won't happen.

[vezpa]

Bud, on 07 August 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

We are kept segragated by politicians and preachers who like the status quo and who will do everything in their considerable power to keep us segragated because they know that if we ever start acting together as one community, their days in power will be short lived.

I really like this statement.

[Jeffrey]

vezpa, on 07 August 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Bud, on 07 August 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

We are kept segragated by politicians and preachers who like the status quo and who will do everything in their considerable power to keep us segragated because they know that if we ever start acting together as one community, their days in power will be short lived.

I really like this statement.

sad but true

[boog]

For what this worth. I train with several black men and women and I will say that we ALL respect each other. I have taught Utah CCW Classes on the south side in not too good of areas where all of the students were Black, as many as 30 in a class. I am having another this Saturday at a Masonic Lodge and again all students will be Black, also having another in about a week again south side where all will be Black. Me and my wife will be the only white folks there. I will say that while driving there and leaving we are both on high alert, but all of the students thank me and my wife for doing the class and we have dinner with some of them after. They just want to be able to protect themselves and their family and on occasion  I have had some approach me months later and tell me that they have sent other people to my classes. Sometimes people just want to be treated the way they treat others. Again for what it's worth
Boog

[SFC Stu]

vezpa, on 07 August 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Bud, on 07 August 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

We are kept segragated by politicians and preachers who like the status quo and who will do everything in their considerable power to keep us segragated because they know that if we ever start acting together as one community, their days in power will be short lived.

I really like this statement.

That folks is the difference between stupid and ignorant! These politicians may be stupid, but they are NOT ignorant.

[RandyP]

I have lived in this town for 63 years and recognize that there are MANY areas where prudence dictates my continued absence. My non-white coworkers and colleagues often mention inner city neighborhoods that they too would never visit, all out of safety concerns. Heck, Jesse Jackson has been quoted as being concerned if he sees a group of blacks youth headed his way on a sidewalk.

Is that racist or street smart? I guess it depends on the beholder? Are all minorities scum? Of COURSE NOT! Is 'most' of the crime committed by some who also happen to be minority born? Yes. Are all muslims terorists, NO!, but recently most all terrorists HAVE been Muslim radicals. Profiling, prejudice or street smarts? The three recent mass shootings have been by white guys .

If the next wave after wave of urban violence is committed by roaming gangs of oompah-loompahs? I'm watching out and aiming low.

What's that line? Be courteous but have plan to kill everyone you meet? or some such advice?

[Dr. G]

Having lived on thw southside of Chicago for most of my 50 + yrs. I would be the last to suggest that it,is safe.  The death toll in Chicago has alrteady exceeded the number of US Soldiers killed in Afganistand this year.  I would absolutely agree that many, even most communities have a lower crime rate than certain areas of the south and west sides.  What I am questioning in this post has muich more to do with the percieved safety in his neighborhood, than the lack of safety in mine.  I am questioning the unstated inference that he wouldn't need a gun to go to the show in his neighborhood, but he would need to have a gun in my neighborhood.  I wonder what the racial makeup of Aurora Colorado is like?  I simply contend that my guard needs to be as high in a "nice" neighborhood as it does in a "bad" neighborhood, and that I do myself a disservice when I assume that one area is "safer" than another.  Because the probability of being a crime victim is lower, doesn't make you safer, is the point I am trying to make.

"When the ultimate outcome is sufficently grievious enough, the statistical probability of it happening becomes irrelevent"

[boog]

Excellant Dr. G
As I say in my classes "It can happen anytime and anywhere, and when you are least expecting it that is when it will happen." If you are allowed to carry then CARRY.
Boog

[Ranger]

boog, on 07 August 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Excellant Dr. G
As I say in my classes "It can happen anytime and anywhere, and when you are least expecting it that is when it will happen." If you are allowed to carry then CARRY.
Boog

And if you're not allowed to carry, work with others to pass legislation so that you can carry!  ;-)

[RandyP]

"Because the probability of being a crime victim is lower, doesn't make you safer, is the point I am trying to make."

Not to nit pick or anything, but isn't the much lower probability of being a crime victim the definition of being 'safer'?

I carry whenever and wherever it is legal for me to do so, namely NOT in my own area where in fact I am less 'safe'. The probability of needing my firearm out in East Whatchamacallit, IN is very, very remote, but I am armed and ready should the need arise.

It is not a 'perception' that several of the largely minority areas around, east and south east of my house are shooting galleries, it is an operational reality. And it is not a perception that the S/W suburb where I work has much less crime, though the scum from my home area does like to travel out there to commit some heinous acts.

If CCW ever becomes the law of the Land of Lincoln, and frankly I seriously doubt it will happen in my lifetime, I will carry daily most everywhere. I also know that if it happens after my lifetime, my kids will have a nice choice of dad's old handguns from which they can choose their carry piece.

[bigwilli]

I just recently joined this forum.  I grew up with a dad who was an NRA member and I shot my first pistol when I 9, so it never amazes me when African-American friends and pundits on tv categorize those who advocate carry laws as racist, gun-toting nuts.  I wish they could see this forum and this thread specifically.  The discussion about race, crime and carry here is more civil than on most news programs.

[RECarry]

bigwilli, on 17 August 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

I just recently joined this forum.  I grew up with a dad who was an NRA member and I shot my first pistol when I 9, so it never amazes me when African-American friends and pundits on tv categorize those who advocate carry laws as racist, gun-toting nuts.  I wish they could see this forum and this thread specifically.  The discussion about race, crime and carry here is more civil than on most news programs.

Welcome to IC, bigwilli.  You'll notice politicians in the Chicago area will preface their anti-gun stance with phrases like "Since I grew up downstate I have nothing against hunters and sportsmen", or "firearms have no place in modern society, but downstate hunters are probably OK" meaning they are now so much more enlightened than those rubes who believe firearms have their place as tools of self defense. The anti's are the nuts if you ask me.

[Smallbore]

Some areas and town do a better job of keeping their problem quiet. It is very easy (and sad) to pick on the black community. Talk with local rape victim support group volunteers to see how "safe" your community is. You will be surprised.
Talk with your local police to find out how prevalent illegal drugs are in all the little towns. Local newspaper will report problem in the big city while ignoring their own local problem.