43 replies to this topic

[lockman]

Quote

PRIVATE CITIZENS LICENSED AND TRAINED TO CARRY WEAPONS DO NOT THREATEN PUBLIC SAFETY.

I know in these cases they keep the scope narrow and that other issues can be argued later and not be in conflict with the previous rulings.  I just wonder what effect the 4th will have if it affirms the lower court and a new standard may be cited that for carry in public you MUST be licensed & trained, otherwise your right to self-defense and bearing arms in public is subject to prohibition.

It is easier to take several bites of an apple than to devour it whole, but I hope every nibble at the apple does not make the next bite increasingly harder to take. Hopefully this strategy is pulverizing the apple to easily devour as applesauce. I see this type argument in the upcoming debate on sensitive places.

[GarandFan]

As of now, attorneys general from 14 states have joined an amicus brief in support of Wollard.

http://www.kansascit...t-opposing.html

The states are:  Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia.

Note that 3 of the 5 states within the 4th circuit support Wollard.  One of those states is Maryland, which is of course what Wollard is challenging.  I with North Carolina would step up to the plate here.  I'd like to point out that Kentucky has a Democratic Governor and Attorney General, and I am glad to see they are on board.

Read more here: http://www.kansascit...l#storylink=cpy

[borgranta]

xbaltzx, on 24 July 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I did not see an existing thread referring to the Wollard case out of Maryland.

Anyways, the stay regarding the validity of the Good and Substantial clause was lifted.

Original thread on Wollard:http://www.mdshooter...?t=40649&page=1
Thread regarding lifting of stay on mdshooter:http://www.mdshooter...ead.php?t=87545
Link to Order Lifting Stay:http://www.marylands.../order.stay.pdf

In the event IL gets may issue, I hope we can leverage Wollard.

here is a link to a new thread last post was today
http://www.mdshooter...t=88287&page=63

the 4th circuit is will start oral arguements october 23
here is the link
http://mdconcealedcarry.net/

Edited by borgranta, 25 September 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[GarandFan]

Arguments before the 4th circuit court of appeals are set for today.  It's Alan Gura versus Maryland AG Douglas Gansler.

http://www.washingto...d-carry-gun-la/

If anyone can get hold of argument audio or transcripts, I would be great having them posted here!

[LYU370]

They are posted two days after the arguments.

[KBrown1]

Can't wait to see what happend.

[C0untZer0]

The comments from people who were there seem to indicate that the 4th isn't leaning toward a favorable ruling for Wollard.

Judge King seemed to be indicating that Wollard didn't seek all proper remedies before bring the case before the federal courts.  Technically Wollard could have gone through the MD state courts...  it's not a good sign when a judge is going down that path.

King also seemed to be laying the groundwork for a possible remand.

Judge Davis seemed to be leaning towards sending it to the Supreme Court...

I don't think we're going to get a favorable ruling from the 4th.

State Atty Matthew Fader stated that while Self Defense is core to the right, it only exists "In the Home", outside the home hasn't been established yet and none of the judges questioned that or contradicted that statement in any way.

I was so upbeat about Wollard because Judge Legg seemed to do a very thourough job of making an iron-clad ruling.  But King in particular is doing so much squirming, nit-picking and exerting so much effort looking for some way out of having to actually make a ruling - I'm not hopefull that Wollard will help in Moore.

[colt-45]

C0untZer0, on 24 October 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

The comments from people who were there seem to indicate that the 4th isn't leaning toward a favorable ruling for Wollard.

Judge King seemed to be indicating that Wollard didn't seek all proper remedies before bring the case before the federal courts.  Technically Wollard could have gone through the MD state courts...  it's not a good sign when a judge is going down that path.

King also seemed to be laying the groundwork for a possible remand.

Judge Davis seemed to be leaning towards sending it to the Supreme Court...

I don't think we're going to get a favorable ruling from the 4th.

State Atty Matthew Fader stated that while Self Defense is core to the right, it only exists "In the Home", outside the home hasn't been established yet and none of the judges questioned that or contradicted that statement in any way.

I was so upbeat about Wollard because Judge Legg seemed to do a very thourough job of making an iron-clad ruling.  But King in particular is doing so much squirming, nit-picking and exerting so much effort looking for some way out of having to actually make a ruling - I'm not hopefull that Wollard will help in Moore.

i knew this is the way it would turn out. if they get a bad ruling it will be appealed right?

[GarandFan]

colt-45, on 24 October 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

i knew this is the way it would turn out. if they get a bad ruling it will be appealed right?

Let me remind you that it "hasn't turned out" yet.  And from keeping an eye on the various carry cases moving forward across the country, it is my take that getting a carry case before the Supreme Court is what everyone is expecting, and has been working toward.

Heller affirmed that the second amendment guarantees the right to keep arms.  McDonald ensured that the right is applicable against states and municipalities in addition to the federal gov.  Some future case (perhaps Moore, perhaps Woolard, or others, or some combination of them) are being positioned so that the supreme court can finally affirm that the second amendment guarantees the right to bear arms.

I know ... it seems like such a long time coming.  And to us, the question itself even seems silly, and the answer foregone, because we know that the second amendment has since 1791 guaranteed that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[Drylok]

The audio is posted two days after arguments, I saw that but what link do we go to find them when the time comes?

[LYU370]

Drylok, on 25 October 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

The audio is posted two days after arguments, I saw that but what link do we go to find them when the time comes?

http://www.ca4.uscou...hive/OAlist.asp

Edited by LYU370, 25 October 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[C0untZer0]

Direct link:

[firepiper]

Anyone care to guess as to how today's ruling may apply to this case.....and how it may apply if IL chooses to go the "may issue" route?

[CM_50BMG]

firepiper, on 11 December 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Anyone care to guess as to how today's ruling may apply to this case.....and how it may apply if IL chooses to go the "may issue" route?

Not sure but will be interresting to see what is decided now that the Moore/Shepard opinion is out. And just to clarify, there is no concession on may issue for us in Illinois, shall issue with a new carry bill that is trimmed down even more than HB 148 as we gave them the chance to pass that bill when they had the ball in their court, now its our turn to put together a bill that we feel is consistant with the courts ruling.