kurt555gs Posted July 18, 2012 at 10:09 PM Posted July 18, 2012 at 10:09 PM Obviously, we are all waiting for the 7th circuit ruling before any attempt is made to pass carry legislation in Illinois, but for those us us that Open Carry is an important issue, I and others are wondering if the bill that will be brought to the out next will be HB5745 that allows open carry or HB148 that does not. States that didn't include open carry like Florida, Texas, and Oklahoma in the original bill have had many years of fighting for this basic right, Only Oklahoma, out of those three has finally had the right to open carry restored. Open carry isn't a contentious issue that needs to be thrown out to get anti gun activists support. But if it isn't in the original bill, it has shown to be difficult to restore. I would like to know if open carry is part of the plan from the "powers that be", because truthfully, I don't really want to support a concealed carry only bill any more. I do not want to be told to wait another 5 or 6 years to get open carry into Illinois law. I'll bet there are many here that agree. Open carry is something that needs to be included the first time.
Bud Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:13 PM Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:13 PM I would be totally against open carry and I would not support it. Just my opinion though
Jim Smyth Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:27 PM Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:27 PM I'm with Bud on this one. Open carry scares the Sheeple and the majority of people dont want to see guns carried openly by anyone other than Law Enforcement. It's a psychological thing. I had to deal with this very issues in our Campground in Wisconsin where it is legal to Open Carry. Through long drawn out in fighting the Board decided to leave things alone and only press the issue if somebody does go Open Carry in our member owned Park. But we will be giving that person that Open Carries (if it ever happens) a lot of peer pressure. The CCW or as I would like to say the Ostrich effect is the way to go initially, out of site out of mind.
willxjcherokee Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:52 PM Posted July 18, 2012 at 11:52 PM I am 100% for open carry. I hope we get it included if we get RTC.its a right, why should a government tell me how to carry a gun?
papa Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:02 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:02 AM I'm for open or concealed. Why should the cops be the only ones who can openly carry?? As far as the sheeple being skeered, so what? The thugs and gang bangers don't carry guns out in the open. Let the people get used to it by seeing it. Would I open carry all the time , NO but it sure would be nice to have that option.
KingWalleye Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:15 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:15 AM While I am not per se, pro open carry I would like to see it made legal. OWB is way more comfortable than IWB even with the best holsters. Going atv'ing or hiking in the state parks in warm weather are things that I enjoy and being able to carry openly is often times more convenient too. A cheapo paddle holster takes a few seconds to put on and take off. There is plenty of open space in Illinois and like many other things in our lives people can be educated and informed and their opinions and ideas can be swayed. After the first dozen or so mwag calls the cops will start educating callers that it is legal and their is nothing they can do. It works in enough states now so why not Illinois? Also, I don't like to see us divided over carry at all. Concealed carry is priority #1. Everything else is wasted effort. United we stand. KW
Sidartha Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:28 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:28 AM I would like to see open carry because it would eliminate any of the confusion around the words "concealed", "mostly concealed" "partially exposed" or any other phrase that is used.If your gun is accidently exposed and the cops respond are you expecting them to break out a measuring tape and calculator to figure out how much of your gun was exposed to determine if you are legal or not? On another point entirely.If the votes are there for either bill then why would you offer to limit your rights and the free exercise therof?I don't think it's a valid reason to limit my freedom because someone else is frightened of an inanimate object. If it comes done to the choice of passing 148 or not passing 5745 then I'd like a bill passed. But if we get to choose one, I choose 5745.
lockman Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:28 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 12:28 AM If we don't get OC, you can still make the political statement by wearing t-shirts that state you are carrying. Yes carrying guns openly is a nefarious activity. Oddly the secreted gun in the pocket was until the latter part of the last century considered nefarious. We have come almost full circle. My primary concern is self-defense. I will worry about the manner of carry as secondary.
jkrzos Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:04 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:04 AM Howdy, I agree with Bud, also. I see open carry, when the Police are inindated with these types of calls for law-abiding citizens carrying, but let the Criminal open carry and commit a crime and the Police don't respond, because of the nature of the call. There will be lawsuits up the wazoo, by crooked ambulance chasing legalbeagles(no offense to upright lawyers). The Police, The GA, and anyone who advocate carrying will be sued. Don't say it won't happen. It's just like the UN Small Arms Treaty not interferring with the 2nd Amendment. BULL$@#^!!!!!!!!!!!!! gIVE THEM AN INCH, THEY WANT A MILE. Sorry rant off. jkrzos
Chiburbian Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:09 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:09 AM http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/rifle-toting-troy-teen-found-not-guilty/
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:11 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:11 AM Jim Smith and Bud. Would you really want to deny my right to bear arms because it isn't your preferred method? I can support concealed carry, when my preferred method is open carry. Why can't I get the same respect? Kingwalleye, we are not united when many of us in the open carry community are asked for our support for a bill like HB148 that provides of concealed but NOT open carry. I have been thinking of this issue a lot. I want to be united in riht to carry. But for me, that means open carry must be part of any bill I support. I think many here feel the same. If you have read my previous posts, I wanted to get a bill passed that would provide for open carry in non home rule areas because it would only require 60 votes. I did quite a bit of research, and think it would be possible. Actually because of the 7th Circuit case, I was told by a reliable source that I could probably get it passed just with votes inside Cook county, and even if Todd opposed it. ( Which he told me he would ). I have been thinking. I could most likely get this done, but it would be selfish of me, in the same way HB148 is selfish to those that want to deny open carry. We that care about our 2nd amendment civil rights really do need to fight together. We need to deep six HB148 and put our united resources behind either HB5745 or a new and better bill. I do know, after careful thought, that I will work for and ask the open carry community to stand up and not support any bill that does not have open carry as an option. Don't ask me to support something that doesn't include my firm beliefs again.
Talonap Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:37 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:37 AM Kurt, sorry you want to deny everyone CC, (because they do not share your views), if OC is not possible to get passed at this time. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. You are also entitled to not support a CC only bill. I am also assuming that you would not want to apply for a CC perrmit when it is passed if it does not include OC. We will miss your support of a CC only bill if it comes to that, but I'm sure no one will ask you to go aginst your beliefs to get your support.
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:49 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 01:49 AM Perhaps Talonap a more positive thought would be that in order to get a right to carry bill passed, you need more than just luke warm support from the open carry community, but vigorous efforts. That means including open carry in any bill from now on. You need our help, we need open carry to be included.
Molly B. Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:13 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:13 AM What if the votes are not there for open carry? Do we just toss the whole idea of carry?
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:19 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:19 AM We could have had concealed carry already if we would have excluded Cook county. Todd and others made ( the correct ) decision to not take the easy path, but do the right thing and fight for concealed carry state wide.Open carry is exactly the same issue. And should be handled in the same manner.There are a large number of open carry advocates. We as a rule support concealed carry, but we don't want to be thrown under the bus for the sake of expediency. We can add vigorous support to the right to carry cause. But how can you expect that support while denying open carry?Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
DoYouFeelLucky Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:23 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:23 AM Open carry is a bad idea. If I'm in a place that's getting robbed I don't want them opening fire in the direction of the person they see with an openly carried firearm and putting myself and family at risk because we just happen to be in the direction of fire. I also don't want some temporarily crazed individual scanning the vicinity for someone openly carrying and stealing their gun to commit suicide or to hurt someone else. I believe that concealed carry is the responsible method.
miztic Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:26 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:26 AM I would like to see open carry because it would eliminate any of the confusion around the words "concealed", "mostly concealed" "partially exposed" or any other phrase that is used.If your gun is accidently exposed and the cops respond are you expecting them to break out a measuring tape and calculator to figure out how much of your gun was exposed to determine if you are legal or not? On another point entirely.If the votes are there for either bill then why would you offer to limit your rights and the free exercise therof?I don't think it's a valid reason to limit my freedom because someone else is frightened of an inanimate object. If it comes done to the choice of passing 148 or not passing 5745 then I'd like a bill passed. But if we get to choose one, I choose 5745. I was going to say the same thing, I don't plan to OC, but I would like it included if at all possible.The more I read, the more the anti groups annoy me with their lies, I'm done, don't give them an inch, include as much of our rights as possible in the law.
colt-45 Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:37 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:37 AM this is how i see it if you open carry you are a target in the heat of a fight, but if you conceal carry than they don't know who's carrying than you could come out ok. i like both but will consider either one just to get something for self-defense.
willxjcherokee Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:39 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:39 AM I can't believe you guys are arguing about this.Support both! its a right!
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:43 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:43 AM Without both Will, we will likely have neither. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
willxjcherokee Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:55 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:55 AM I agree, I am also jealous of your nexus 7
Molly B. Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:56 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 02:56 AM Without both Will, we will likely have neither. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2 What?
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:02 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:02 AM Molly. If we as a whole want the right to carry in Illinois both the open carry and concealed carry camps need to work together. That means any carry bill needs to have BOTH open and concealed carry included. It's just that simple. We need both.
papa Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:10 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:10 AM Open carry is a bad idea. If I'm in a place that's getting robbed I don't want them opening fire in the direction of the person they see with an openly carried firearm and putting myself and family at risk because we just happen to be in the direction of fire. I also don't want some temporarily crazed individual scanning the vicinity for someone openly carrying and stealing their gun to commit suicide or to hurt someone else. I believe that concealed carry is the responsible method. The above named situations have been proven to not happen. When a bad guy sees someone openly carrying a firearm they vacate the area and go somewhere that has an easier target(s). They may be stupid but they don't want to take chances of being hurt. As far as the bad guy targeting a open carrier to take his or her handgun , that has only happened one time and there are a lot of people in other states that open carry. Yes , one time is 2 times to many but the same could happen to a concealed carrier . A bad guy could sneak up behind you , knock you out , and during the pat down for valuables find your gun. I will be glad to support any carry bill we can get together but please don't use wild , unsupported statements to argue against open carry. If a person doesn't think open carry is for them , that's fine but don't put others down for it. We either support the 2A or we don't!
Molly B. Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:11 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:11 AM Molly. If we as a whole want the right to carry in Illinois both the open carry and concealed carry camps need to work together. That means any carry bill needs to have BOTH open and concealed carry included. It's just that simple. We need both. There is a difference in supporting both and believing both are possible in this state. You would forgo the Right to Carry if you can't open carry?
Molly B. Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:14 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:14 AM We either support the 2A or we don't!If someone prefers one over the other, it does not mean they don't support 2A.
ishmo Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:15 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:15 AM Perhaps Talonap a more positive thought would be that in order to get a right to carry bill passed, you need more than just luke warm support from the open carry community, but vigorous efforts. That means including open carry in any bill from now on. You need our help, we need open carry to be included. No offense friend but before you put bs like this out you might want to remember to get your OC bill you're going to need more than just lukewarm support from the CC community. Jmho but you're going to need help from the CC community a lot more than it will need you.
Molly B. Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:16 AM Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:16 AM We either support the 2A or we don't!If someone prefers one over the other, it does not mean they don't support 2A. And I would not bail on a RTC bill in this God-forsaken state just because it doesn't start off with open carry - if the votes are not there for open carry. It would be like bailing on a RTC bill because it wasn't constitutional carry.
kurt555gs Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:17 AM Author Posted July 19, 2012 at 03:17 AM Molly. If we as a whole want the right to carry in Illinois both the open carry and concealed carry camps need to work together. That means any carry bill needs to have BOTH open and concealed carry included. It's just that simple. We need both. There is a difference in supporting both and believing both are possible in this state. You would forgo the Right to Carry if you can't open carry? Would you forgo concealed carry that excludes Cook county if you can't have concealed carry state wide? I am sorry, but I do not see adding open carry as a deal breaker. It is very important to many here. Really.
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