Every third Tuesday of the month, we put on an IDPA-style action pistol match at Article II Gun World Range at 250 W. Cortland Ave., Lombard. First shot is around 6:15pm or so.
We feature three or four stages set up serially in the training range #4.
The fee is $25. We pre-qualify first timers to make sure they're proficient enough to get through safely so we're looking for USPSA/IDPA/ICORE classification or some other sign of being able to keep up.
Otherwise, you can call or e-mail us to ask about your readiness.
Of course, we do have classes to get you ready, such as our Intermediate Handgun & Holster Skills class and our Introduction to Action Pistol Competition events if you need to be a little further down the road.
Or, just come out and watch. There's always plenty of space and if you have eyes/ears you can watch from inside the range.
The following Tuesday, the fourth of the month, is our USPSA-style match.
Action pistol competition like IDPA or USPSA is pretty much the most fun you can have with a gun. Plus, the skills and habits that come from this type of competition are very useful for those who carry a gun legally; speed, accuracy, and a solid, safe draw count in both arenas.
Stop on out and take a look.
TD Roe
Bill Zeller
Excel Training Group
847-943-9235
www.exceltraininggroup.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
2
Tuesday Night Action Pistol- IDPA at Article II Lombard
Started by
cherryriver
, Jun 18 2012 10:10 PM
19 replies to this topic
#1
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:10 PM
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#2
-
- Members
-
- 4,258 posts Joined: 26-February 09
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 12:41 PM
What are the major differences between IDPA and USPSA style matches?
NRA Lifetime Member
IGOLD 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
CCW Laws: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
Posted anti-gun business listing: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
Illinois Government: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
IGOLD 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
CCW Laws: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
Posted anti-gun business listing: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
Illinois Government: (Android), (iPhone/iPad)
#3
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:17 PM
Well, X, you're in danger of opening a can of nasty worms there among the various partisans, but...
Since I blow my weekends staging both kinds of matches (although mostly USPSA) and have designed and built who-knows-how-many stages of both ilks, I can tell you that speaking strictly in terms of techinque, the only significant difference is "cover". IDPA requires all shots to be made from cover, usually around a corner or barricade, if available, and USPSA does not.
Really, all the other stuff is just equipment differences and rules refinements. That, and that the IDPA rulebook is incomplete, lacking in clarity, and opens too many issues to judgement and interpretation on the spot.
Basically, shoot not-from-cover in IDPA and you get a penalty; shoot from cover in USPSA and your friends will laugh at you.
Hope that helps.
Since I blow my weekends staging both kinds of matches (although mostly USPSA) and have designed and built who-knows-how-many stages of both ilks, I can tell you that speaking strictly in terms of techinque, the only significant difference is "cover". IDPA requires all shots to be made from cover, usually around a corner or barricade, if available, and USPSA does not.
Really, all the other stuff is just equipment differences and rules refinements. That, and that the IDPA rulebook is incomplete, lacking in clarity, and opens too many issues to judgement and interpretation on the spot.
Basically, shoot not-from-cover in IDPA and you get a penalty; shoot from cover in USPSA and your friends will laugh at you.
Hope that helps.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#4
-
- Supporting Members Team
-
- 1,048 posts Joined: 19-March 12
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:29 PM
Is one more economical than the other?
Quote
IS YOUR RIFLE A GRENADE LAUNCHER? YES NO
#5
-
- Supporting Members Team
-
- 681 posts Joined: 22-July 09
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:37 PM
cherryriver, on 19 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:
Basically, shoot not-from-cover in IDPA and you get a penalty; shoot from cover in USPSA and your friends will laugh at you.
Hope that helps.
I've been wondering what the difference was. Thanks for the clear explanation.
#6
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:38 PM
Jason-
Well, yes, to some degree.
IDPA requires less equipment overall than USPSA, but USPSA's "practical" equipment divisions, Production and Single Stack, are expressly designed to keep things more realistic and compete head-to-head with IDPA's Stock Service Pistol and Custom Defense Pistol divisions. Revolver divisions are likewise pretty close between the two disciplines.
So, if you're shooting a stock Glock or 1911, there really isn't much difference in gear.
It's in the exotic divisions such as Limited and Open where USPSA can get pricey. You can see someone spend five grand or more to get into Open. A "competitive" Limited gun to a serious competitor starts around half that and goes up.
The remaining difference is ammunition expense. Typically, a USPSA match will use about twice as much as an IDPA match with its smaller stages and lower round count limit (18 vs. 32).
A guy rolling down the driveway with an XDm and an Uncle Mikes holster/mag carrier rig spends pretty much the same in both disciplines.
Well, yes, to some degree.
IDPA requires less equipment overall than USPSA, but USPSA's "practical" equipment divisions, Production and Single Stack, are expressly designed to keep things more realistic and compete head-to-head with IDPA's Stock Service Pistol and Custom Defense Pistol divisions. Revolver divisions are likewise pretty close between the two disciplines.
So, if you're shooting a stock Glock or 1911, there really isn't much difference in gear.
It's in the exotic divisions such as Limited and Open where USPSA can get pricey. You can see someone spend five grand or more to get into Open. A "competitive" Limited gun to a serious competitor starts around half that and goes up.
The remaining difference is ammunition expense. Typically, a USPSA match will use about twice as much as an IDPA match with its smaller stages and lower round count limit (18 vs. 32).
A guy rolling down the driveway with an XDm and an Uncle Mikes holster/mag carrier rig spends pretty much the same in both disciplines.
Edited by cherryriver, 19 June 2012 - 01:40 PM.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#7
-
- Supporting Members Team
-
- 1,048 posts Joined: 19-March 12
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:51 PM
Thanks Cherry! I have been considering it, and I would be the stock Glock (actually M&P) guy. I may try and make one of these. 6:15 is a little hard though.
Quote
IS YOUR RIFLE A GRENADE LAUNCHER? YES NO
#8
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:55 PM
Jason-
Stop on out whenever you can, tonight or next Tuesday, and get a look at the action.
Talk to us, too. Well, actually TD, since I'm usually downrange working the stages.
We can point you in the right direction.
Just to add... the first stage usually winds up shooting about 7:15-7:30, so getting there a little late isn't always a big problem.
Just remember, it's a cold range- no gun handling outside of range 4, and then, only at the Safe Area table on the right. Only!
No ammunition in the gun or in the vicinity of the Safe Area, either. Very strictly enforced... for your comfort.
And no gear (holsters, even empty) out in the store, outside of the range and attached classroom. That's a house rule.
Stop on out whenever you can, tonight or next Tuesday, and get a look at the action.
Talk to us, too. Well, actually TD, since I'm usually downrange working the stages.
We can point you in the right direction.
Just to add... the first stage usually winds up shooting about 7:15-7:30, so getting there a little late isn't always a big problem.
Just remember, it's a cold range- no gun handling outside of range 4, and then, only at the Safe Area table on the right. Only!
No ammunition in the gun or in the vicinity of the Safe Area, either. Very strictly enforced... for your comfort.
And no gear (holsters, even empty) out in the store, outside of the range and attached classroom. That's a house rule.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#9
-
- Moderator
-
- 10,858 posts Joined: 30-April 07
Tim Bowyer
Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:47 PM
cherryriver, on 19 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:
Basically, shoot not-from-cover in IDPA and you get a penalty; shoot from cover in USPSA and your friends will laugh at you.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Cherry, to be fair, not EVERY shot in IDPA has to be from cover. I'm a relative newcomer to the sport, but I must say that in the matches that I've shot, many of the shots were at close range in the wide open, while retreating to get to cover or while advancing down a hallway in a simulated house clearing scenario. To be sure, when the scenario calls for you be under cover, and you're not, the RO will call "cover" until you hear him. If you don't respond, a procedural error may be assessed. However, many shots are taken in the wide open.
Never having had the chance to shoot USPSA, I can't comment on it.
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!
The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams
Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB
#10
-
- Members
-
- 616 posts Joined: 05-July 11
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:43 PM
I wish I could get into some IDPA.
I want to feel like an operator and hone my skills.
I want to feel like an operator and hone my skills.
#11
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:09 PM
Abolt-
I think what you're seeing so far is more the designer/match director's style, the club's style, or just a reflection of what props are available.
I've actually staged an eight-stage, 90-round match wherein only six rounds were fired in the open. IDPA course guidelines call for a certain number of shots per match to be this or that, or not more than this or that, so I always have to consider the movement rule.
So it was tonight: Four stages, 54 rounds, six of them required to be on the move and all the rest from cover.
The other aspect is that many clubs, especially newer ones, tend not to have enough cover props like barrels or walls, so they put up stages that have fewer.
Still, in a hallway retreat stage, if I understand correctly, there ought to have been cover available and therefore mandatory to use. It goes to how the IDPA rulebook can be vague, yet allow stage designers to specify all sorts of thing contrary to the general course rules.
It so happens that the places I put on IDPA matches have lots of wall props- not unrelated to the fact that the match director (me) is a 40-year carpenter. You'll find that USPSA program directors, especially, tend to be carpenters. Someone's gotta make all that stuff.
Meanwhile, Will, hope you can find a match to get in on soon. IDPA's a game, but the fundamentals really are the same as real-life carry and personal protection. Honestly, the first time I went to a match, I was very humbled about my then-30-year gunhandling skills, even before I embarrassed myself by shooting badly under the pressure of the timer.
The final irony is, now that I've become so much more competent of a handgunner after all these years of running around Sunday mornings with a 1911 or sixgun, I'm even less inclined to ever want to have to use one in the gravest extreme.
I think what you're seeing so far is more the designer/match director's style, the club's style, or just a reflection of what props are available.
I've actually staged an eight-stage, 90-round match wherein only six rounds were fired in the open. IDPA course guidelines call for a certain number of shots per match to be this or that, or not more than this or that, so I always have to consider the movement rule.
So it was tonight: Four stages, 54 rounds, six of them required to be on the move and all the rest from cover.
The other aspect is that many clubs, especially newer ones, tend not to have enough cover props like barrels or walls, so they put up stages that have fewer.
Still, in a hallway retreat stage, if I understand correctly, there ought to have been cover available and therefore mandatory to use. It goes to how the IDPA rulebook can be vague, yet allow stage designers to specify all sorts of thing contrary to the general course rules.
It so happens that the places I put on IDPA matches have lots of wall props- not unrelated to the fact that the match director (me) is a 40-year carpenter. You'll find that USPSA program directors, especially, tend to be carpenters. Someone's gotta make all that stuff.
Meanwhile, Will, hope you can find a match to get in on soon. IDPA's a game, but the fundamentals really are the same as real-life carry and personal protection. Honestly, the first time I went to a match, I was very humbled about my then-30-year gunhandling skills, even before I embarrassed myself by shooting badly under the pressure of the timer.
The final irony is, now that I've become so much more competent of a handgunner after all these years of running around Sunday mornings with a 1911 or sixgun, I'm even less inclined to ever want to have to use one in the gravest extreme.
Edited by cherryriver, 19 June 2012 - 10:11 PM.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#12
-
- Members
-
- 6,991 posts Joined: 15-February 08
Member
Posted 20 June 2012 - 07:02 AM
While I'm less interested in competition and more interested in actual training, these matches seem like a lot of fun
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-
Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-
-Thomas Jefferson-
Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-
#13
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 20 June 2012 - 07:11 AM
Drylok, here's the real value of doing this kind of stuff: There's pressure, mostly self-imposed, brought on by the timer and sense of competitiveness. For the great majority of us, this is the closest we can get without spending tons on high-end training on stressed shooting and gunhandling.
Not only that, you can get this pressure-testing pretty much every weekend if you're fortunate to live within shouting distance of clubs putting on matches. The reps, the consistency, the familiarity with the gun and gear are more valuable to practical shooting than going once every year or two to specialized training and then only backing it up with occasional unstructured plinking.
Not to insult plinking- heaven knows I do my share- but the stress is the real value to the sport.
I've tacked on a shot of the left end of one stage. Unfortunately, no one has shared their actual action vids yet for me to post.
And I still say: it's the most fun you can have with a gun.
Not only that, you can get this pressure-testing pretty much every weekend if you're fortunate to live within shouting distance of clubs putting on matches. The reps, the consistency, the familiarity with the gun and gear are more valuable to practical shooting than going once every year or two to specialized training and then only backing it up with occasional unstructured plinking.
Not to insult plinking- heaven knows I do my share- but the stress is the real value to the sport.
I've tacked on a shot of the left end of one stage. Unfortunately, no one has shared their actual action vids yet for me to post.
And I still say: it's the most fun you can have with a gun.
Attached Images
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#14
-
- Members
-
- 6,991 posts Joined: 15-February 08
Member
Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:12 AM
We're going to set up a make shift IDPA course at the shoot on Saturday and I can't wait to try it. Only problem is I don't have a mag holder
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-
Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-
-Thomas Jefferson-
Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-
#15
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:18 AM
Drylok, IDPA allows reloading from your pants or jacket pockets. I've done so with the revolver, and it's not as bad as you might think.
A plain ol' Uncle Mike's double mag carrier will work fine and last forever, and it's inexpensive.
Try it.
A plain ol' Uncle Mike's double mag carrier will work fine and last forever, and it's inexpensive.
Try it.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#16
-
- Moderator
-
- 10,858 posts Joined: 30-April 07
Tim Bowyer
Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:45 AM
Drylok, on 20 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:
We're going to set up a make shift IDPA course at the shoot on Saturday and I can't wait to try it. Only problem is I don't have a mag holder
I'm bettin' there's a single stack mag holder you can borrow!!! Or, as CherryRiver says, that's why God invented pockets!! They're just a little slower! Oh, Drylok, my shot timer is "out for delivery" by UPS and should be in my office in a couple of hours. Feelin' the pressure yet??
Oh and CherryRiver, our club has just started with the matches and I've only been to one other club's match. We are a little short on props, but I "found" a 100' roll of orange wall the other day that will probably end up donated to my club when we're done with it Saturday. As to moving and cover. I've never been in a fire fight, hope I never have the experience. But I'm thinking that most of my shots would be made on the move to cover or from cover. Standing still out in the open seems to be a good way to lose the fight!!
Lookin' forward to Saturday.
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!
The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams
Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB
#17
-
- Members
-
- 1,019 posts Joined: 14-April 04
Member
Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:43 AM
I have shot some stages designed and set up by Cherryriver and yes you can tell he is a carpenter. The man just loves to build walls. These times have been over at NPCCC IDPA, nice place but a good 150 miles for me so I don't get there often. In fact my first time there CR was the match director and had IIRC five of the most challenging but a lot of fun courses I have ever shot.
I am also looking foreward to Saturday and helping set up some IDPA type COFs just to expose some new people to the sport. Jim.
I am also looking foreward to Saturday and helping set up some IDPA type COFs just to expose some new people to the sport. Jim.
Kristofferson wrote it and Janis sang it "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
#18
-
- Members
-
- 594 posts Joined: 16-April 08
Member
Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:32 AM
sctman800-
Thanks for the very kinds words. Nothing chokes up a match director more than someone saying it was worth a 150-mile ride (okay, even on a bike) to shoot his match. Dabbing the eyes...
Hope you can make it in October and/or November for the darkhouse stages. NPCCC is sort of famous for that.
Now... building walls is great, indeed, but building IDPA and USPSA chapter/clubs is even better for me.
If there is anything I can do, whether it be designs, or construction tips, or anything else, please feel free to ask. Anything to spread the word.
I actually used to do a blog where I wrote about making walls and other props quickly, easily, and most importantly, durable enough to last a few seasons. Those folding wall panels in that photo about are the best thing to happen to an IDPA match director since the shot timer. Six or eight of those and you can set up a very fine match in an hour and a half with a couple of willing hands.
In fact, if I wasn't tied up this weekend putting on a match at NPCCC, I'd be honored to saddle up my ZX-1100 head down there to pitch in. But, it's one of my four ICORE revolver match weekends in Chesterton, so I'll be screwing wall panels together Saturday afternoon by the Dunes instead.
Someday soon I'll go back to writing about match directing, but let me tell you this: get your written stage briefings absolutely perfect, airtight and so specific your eyes hurt. Get a gamer to preview things for you- those guys can find a way around anything, and with the blurry holes on the IDPA rulebook, they can make for misery if something gets away. Don't assume anything.
Apologies for the thread drift- we can take this into another thread and I'll carry on until my keyboard breaks.
See you on the range.
Thanks for the very kinds words. Nothing chokes up a match director more than someone saying it was worth a 150-mile ride (okay, even on a bike) to shoot his match. Dabbing the eyes...
Hope you can make it in October and/or November for the darkhouse stages. NPCCC is sort of famous for that.
Now... building walls is great, indeed, but building IDPA and USPSA chapter/clubs is even better for me.
If there is anything I can do, whether it be designs, or construction tips, or anything else, please feel free to ask. Anything to spread the word.
I actually used to do a blog where I wrote about making walls and other props quickly, easily, and most importantly, durable enough to last a few seasons. Those folding wall panels in that photo about are the best thing to happen to an IDPA match director since the shot timer. Six or eight of those and you can set up a very fine match in an hour and a half with a couple of willing hands.
In fact, if I wasn't tied up this weekend putting on a match at NPCCC, I'd be honored to saddle up my ZX-1100 head down there to pitch in. But, it's one of my four ICORE revolver match weekends in Chesterton, so I'll be screwing wall panels together Saturday afternoon by the Dunes instead.
Someday soon I'll go back to writing about match directing, but let me tell you this: get your written stage briefings absolutely perfect, airtight and so specific your eyes hurt. Get a gamer to preview things for you- those guys can find a way around anything, and with the blurry holes on the IDPA rulebook, they can make for misery if something gets away. Don't assume anything.
Apologies for the thread drift- we can take this into another thread and I'll carry on until my keyboard breaks.
See you on the range.
Winter may change to summer, but the silly season goes on and on...
#19
-
- Members
-
- 676 posts Joined: 09-July 11
Patriot
Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:59 AM
IDPA is great, unfortunately due to my schedule I cant make it weekday evenings and it really sucks because I work about 4 miles down North Ave and I can almost smell the gunpowder!!
"A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right's existence is all the reason he needs."Judge Benson Everett Legg
"because we have a fairly large hammer. . .And I get to play Thor." Todd Vandermyde 12/15/12
"because we have a fairly large hammer. . .And I get to play Thor." Todd Vandermyde 12/15/12
#20
-
- Members
- 8 posts Joined: 08-March 11
Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:10 PM
I have shot a lot of IDPA/USPSA tuesday's with Cherry and must say he is great at his craft. Even if you don't believe it mimic's reality, the name of the "game" is solving the problem. Its that critical thinking in a controlled environment where you can shoot from cover, behind baracades, aroudn walls, with props in your hands, etc... that give you the confidence to practice these techniques in the event that heaven forbid, you must use them in reality. Find some matches on the weekend, go and have fun. Every match I have been to has new shooters and the more experienced guys love helping them out.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
