268 replies to this topic

[Bitter]

Secession is the only way.  Sure, it has not been done successfully in 140 years and even then it was because of a fluke, but I think we have a better shot at that then passing a good bill through the Chicago machine.  There might just be enough Chicago reps who would be glad to be rid of us so that they might rule their socialist dystopia without the rabble from downstate piping up too much.  Then again, pharoh was not too keen on letting the israelites go...

[Uncle Harley]

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

you guys are killing me. The only reason there wasn't a vote is because Madigan blocked it from coming out of committe and he is completely entitled to do  so per il constitution that was written by the legislators who were elected in chicago. You have nobody to blame but your fellow chicago residents. So I don't want to hear anymore **** about someone throwing someone else under the bus. ITS ALL YOUR FAULT So get the hell out of chicago and leave a cow with a lantern behind.

on the bright side,  when more lawsuits roll in,  they can be directly pointed  to him because in this case it was his SOLE decision to not allow it.

[Uncle Harley]

snubjob, on 31 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

bob, on 31 May 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

ike, on 31 May 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

well another year and  we got ???? . Sorry to do this to the Chicago member here, put Let the city opt out. Let the people thaat live there enjoy the the problems they send to city hall and Springfield. If thats what it takes to get Conceal Carry , So be it

Do you really think that would help? in any case, the NRA has publicly vowed to actively oppose any such bill.

And that's exactly the reason the NRA isn't getting one more penny from me. And this attitude is catching on around me too. People [downstate people at least] are sick to death of the nra's approach to this.  It's as if they look chicago as some kind of "holy grail", and to hell with what downstate wants. And before i hear about throwing people under a bus, let's not forget that a few on this forum were beating this same drum just 3 short years ago. What has changed?  It is the opinion of many that even if a carry vote were successful, that the machine would tie it up for eons in red tape, challenges, bogus restrictions, etc. So let's go on without cook county.  It's been said also that even if cook were omitted, it still wouldn'pass. I say give it a try. It sure as hell ain't passin any other way.  It's going to take years to get "usable" concealed carry in cook county either way. Let the rest of the state go on without em.  And as far as the court cases go, don't get your hopes up folks.  The courts will probably eventually render some sort of decision that will HELP us with our goal. They aren't going to just outright force the ILGA to give us concealed carry.

Let's be real for a min.   The NRA is a Business,  they don't give two chits about our rights, they are interested in their bottom line.  There is GOOD reason  they don't want to abandon Chicago,  There is too much revenue coming from Chicago via memberships and donations.  Dropping your membership only drives them to supporting Chicago even more.

[Drylok]

Harley I disagree with your assessment about the nra. It has little to do with membership and lots to do with the timing of our lawsuits. There are not that many people in chicago that truly support right to carry. If there was, there wouldn't have to be a 100 lb lady from 5 hours away that has to come up there to organize all the town hall meetings and every other gosh damn thing we do up there.

[GarandFan]

Uncle Harley, on 31 May 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Let's be real for a min.   The NRA is a Business,  they don't give two chits about our rights, they are interested in their bottom line.  There is GOOD reason  they don't want to abandon Chicago,  There is too much revenue coming from Chicago via memberships and donations.  Dropping your membership only drives them to supporting Chicago even more.

g**damn, give it a rest, dude, until you can incorporate a little objectivity.

[mailterry]

I dont understand all the political stuff...  But if the bil l(hb148) was on postponed consideration.... why couldn't the sponsor of the bill had called for a vote. I thought that was what that was all about when they did that

[mauserme]

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Harley I disagree with your assessment about the nra. It has little to do with membership and lots to do with the timing of our lawsuits. There are not that many people in chicago that truly support right to carry. If there was, there wouldn't have to be a 100 lb lady from 5 hours away that has to come up there to organize all the town hall meetings and every other gosh damn thing we do up there.

Ya' know Drylock, its time to hand the work off the others for a little while and let the legal stuff happen.  Recharge your batteries so you can come back strong when needed.

They're done with our bills so other than poking around a little I'm calling it a night.

[vezpa]

Uncle Harley, on 31 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

you guys are killing me. The only reason there wasn't a vote is because Madigan blocked it from coming out of committe and he is completely entitled to do  so per il constitution that was written by the legislators who were elected in chicago. You have nobody to blame but your fellow chicago residents. So I don't want to hear anymore **** about someone throwing someone else under the bus. ITS ALL YOUR FAULT So get the hell out of chicago and leave a cow with a lantern behind.

on the bright side,  when more lawsuits roll in,  they can be directly pointed  to him because in this case it was his SOLE decision to not allow it.

He completely and solely ****ed up McCormick Place.  He isn't afraid of anything.

[Uncle Harley]

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Harley I disagree with your assessment about the nra. It has little to do with membership and lots to do with the timing of our lawsuits. There are not that many people in chicago that truly support right to carry. If there was, there wouldn't have to be a 100 lb lady from 5 hours away that has to come up there to organize all the town hall meetings and every other gosh damn thing we do up there.

they didn't support it before the law suits,  so that negates your theory.    I'm not saying they don't have good people that don't care for our rights,  Like  Todd for example I believe he does care about our rights  ( even though he's techincally just hired by  the NRA and noactual t actual NRA  board of directors that I'm aware of)   But let's face it,  pissing off your bread and butter is no way to live to fight another day, and you are right about not just about memberships,   Percentage wise, they may have less support up there, but numbers wise  I bet it's suprising.

[abolt243]

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I dont understand all the political stuff...  But if the bil l(hb148) was on postponed consideration.... why couldn't the sponsor of the bill had called for a vote. I thought that was what that was all about when they did that

The rules of the House say that March 31 is the last day for third reading and passage of House Substantive bills.  If they are not read and passed, they are then re-assigned to the Rules committee.  The Speaker is the only person that can instruct the Rules Committee to reassign the bill to another committee so it can be debated.  148 was on third reading when it was place in postponed consideration.  So, since it was not recalled from PC for a vote by 3/31, it went back to rules.

Clear as mud?

[Uncle Harley]

GarandFan, on 31 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Uncle Harley, on 31 May 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Let's be real for a min.   The NRA is a Business,  they don't give two chits about our rights, they are interested in their bottom line.  There is GOOD reason  they don't want to abandon Chicago,  There is too much revenue coming from Chicago via memberships and donations. Dropping your membership only drives them to supporting Chicago even more.

g**damn, give it a rest, dude, until you can incorporate a little objectivity.

Give what a rest?  Giving someone a logical explination of WHY THEY SHOULDN"T DROP THEIR NRA MEMBERSHIP?

[ilphil]

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

you guys are killing me. The only reason there wasn't a vote is because Madigan blocked it from coming out of committe and he is completely entitled to do  so per il constitution that was written by the legislators who were elected in chicago. You have nobody to blame but your fellow chicago residents. So I don't want to hear anymore **** about someone throwing someone else under the bus. ITS ALL YOUR FAULT So get the hell out of chicago and leave a cow with a lantern behind.

I wish I could say it is totally the fault of residents of Chicago, but truthfully every downstater that votes for a Democrat for the House is voting for Madigan. I know the leadership here doesn't like to see this viewed as a partisan issue, but it is. If Republicans held majorities in the legislature we would be in a much stronger position to deal with even an anti-2A political hack like Quinn.

So keep voting for that Dem downstate that loudly proclaims he is with us...and then sucks up to Madigan or Cullerton because that is how the game is played.

[mailterry]

abolt243, on 31 May 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I dont understand all the political stuff...  But if the bil l(hb148) was on postponed consideration.... why couldn't the sponsor of the bill had called for a vote. I thought that was what that was all about when they did that

The rules of the House say that March 31 is the last day for third reading and passage of House Substantive bills.  If they are not read and passed, they are then re-assigned to the Rules committee.  The Speaker is the only person that can instruct the Rules Committee to reassign the bill to another committee so it can be debated.  148 was on third reading when it was place in postponed consideration.  So, since it was not recalled from PC for a vote by 3/31, it went back to rules.

Clear as mud?

understand that , but  could it have been called for a vote  like 3/30  yesterday?

[snubjob]

Uncle Harley are you serious?  If there were that much money contributed in cook, we'd have had carry years ago. Does anyone seriously think that cook has more nra members and contributors than the other 101 counties?  We're being thrown under the bus by madigan AND the NRA. If i see a vote defeated on the house floor that excludes cook county, i'll change my tune. Not until.

[abolt243]

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

abolt243, on 31 May 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I dont understand all the political stuff...  But if the bil l(hb148) was on postponed consideration.... why couldn't the sponsor of the bill had called for a vote. I thought that was what that was all about when they did that

The rules of the House say that March 31 is the last day for third reading and passage of House Substantive bills.  If they are not read and passed, they are then re-assigned to the Rules committee.  The Speaker is the only person that can instruct the Rules Committee to reassign the bill to another committee so it can be debated.  148 was on third reading when it was place in postponed consideration.  So, since it was not recalled from PC for a vote by 3/31, it went back to rules.

Clear as mud?

understand that , but  could it have been called for a vote  like 3/30  yesterday?

What??  It could have been called for a vote on March 31, but the votes were not there to pass it.  Too much attention being paid to the Task Force report that ultimately shot us in the foot.

AB

[Uncle Harley]

snubjob, on 31 May 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Uncle Harley are you serious?  If there were that much money contributed in cook, we'd have had carry years ago. Does anyone seriously think that cook has more nra members and contributors than the other 101 counties?  We're being thrown under the bus by madigan AND the NRA. If i see a vote defeated on the house floor that excludes cook county, i'll change my tune. Not until.

just wait  there is plans by members here to proceed with legislation that will move on without Chicago. I know it's already in the works because  I was asked by my Rep this past yr what I thought about it, and I told him to wait to see what the courts gave us and to see where this legislative session goes.  Rest assured there will be a bill  next yr that leaves Chicago behind, or gives them the opprotunity to opt out.

[mailterry]

so  i assume ... going back to the Rules commitee is better than taking the vote to see were it stands ?

[Uncle Harley]

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

so  i assume ... going back to the Rules commitee is better than taking the vote to see were it stands ?

at the time yes,   I bet they won't let it happen again.

[abolt243]

mailterry, on 31 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

so  i assume ... going back to the Rules commitee is better than taking the vote to see were it stands ?

At that point, it could not be put on PC again.  And voting a bill down, tends to kill any momentum that has been gained, setting it back.  Yes, at that point, going back to rules was better than failing to get 71 votes and having the bill declared failed.

[mailterry]

understood,  thanks for your time   and knowledge

[AFigmentOfYourImagination]

mauserme, on 31 May 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Drylok, on 31 May 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Harley I disagree with your assessment about the nra. It has little to do with membership and lots to do with the timing of our lawsuits. There are not that many people in chicago that truly support right to carry. If there was, there wouldn't have to be a 100 lb lady from 5 hours away that has to come up there to organize all the town hall meetings and every other gosh damn thing we do up there.

Ya' know Drylock, its time to hand the work off the others for a little while and let the legal stuff happen.  Recharge your batteries so you can come back strong when needed.

They're done with our bills so other than poking around a little I'm calling it a night.

Mauserme, I just want to thank you and all others for tirelessly covering the ILGA each time they were in session. For those of us that were away or at work when they were in session, you guys were the go-to source for the days news with regards to any action that would impact our 2A rights.

Also, I want to thank Abolt, Molly B, and anybody else that took part is alerting other members of this forum of necessary action to defeat bad pieces of legislation that would stand to negatively impact the 2A rights of people here in Illinois.

Edited by AFigmentOfYourImagination, 31 May 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[AFigmentOfYourImagination]

As for the situation as it stands here in this state with regards to RTC (amongst many other issues)...

I'm beyond sick of it. From my grandparents (3 of them are now deceased and they covered both sides of the "political aisle") to my son, each one of them has had their life impacted by the antics of the "political powers" (no, I speak not of every Rep or Senator...most here know of whom I speak) within this state. I tell you what....they're crooks. A bunch of yellow-bellied, lawless, spineless crooks. Though I do not hold any political office, I know exactly what Bost means. How the hell am I supposed to look folks in the eye and not feel bad and tell them "Well, that's just the way it is...because that is what the political process in this state allows" when I am asked to explain how come this states fiscal and social climate is getting worse? Wth do you mean "That's just the way it is"? Why the hell is that the way it is?! Because some "untouchable" jerks said so? A great majority of the people of this state are getting screwed because some fancy suit wearing crooks had the lack of integrity that is so required to be able to s**t all over the true well-being of almost all in this state, all in the name of self-enrichment and retaining power.

Quote

"As Speaker, I want every citizen of Illinois to know this is a people’s Legislature – we are here to serve the public, openly, honestly and with the highest standards. I am accountable only to you."

That quote is straight from Madigan's Illinois House Democrats members page

Mike Madigan, pick a story and stick to it. Otherwise take those words down, and quote yourself as what you really mean and believe: "Screw you all, it's all about power and money....your rights and the true well being of the current and future generations of the state of Illinois be damned." Because everybody knows that actions speak louder than words.

Edited by AFigmentOfYourImagination, 31 May 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Jason4567]

Bud, on 31 May 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Just saying......

Concealed carry will be the law of the land in Illinois this year.

[Jeepster]

I wonder if Bill language would change if the NRA, ILRA, RTC etc etc would change if they saw the membership, donations start to dwindle because of the insistance that Chicago be included? I wonder if that would move their asses in a different direction? Just thinking. People outside of Crook Co are fed up waiting for something that as long as Madigan rules over this state, nothing good is going to happen to the downstaters. I know of three, including the barber today in the barbershop that is not or say they are not, sending anymore money or renewing their membership in whatever organization they support. To them, enough is enough.

[chicago]

Has anyone heard from Todd Vandermyde today?  It would be interesting to hear his thoughts about today's general assembly.

[Bud]

you guys kill me.

We get a setback after a year long series of wins and right away you're all ready to throw in the towel.

Harley, what's with you and the NRA? You do realize don't you that the only reason we have gotten this close is because of the NRA don't you? What, are you subscribibg to the anti-gunners rant about the NRA gun lobby? You do realize don't you is the NRA is made up and directed by the members who are for the most part just people like you and me/ or don't you?

Throw Chicxago out of the equation? Why? Because they're not real Americans who are protected by the same rights as all of us? Just because they don't understand the incrdible importance and value of the second Amendment does that mean we should turn our backs on them?

If they don't suppoort us it's not because they are against guns, it's because they have been subjected to a forty plus year long barrage by the main stream media about how bad guns are.They are being lied to by their own politicians and media.

I really don't mean any personal offense to any of you but you need to develop some spine. Just because we have suffered a setback is no reason to throw yourself doewn on the ground and start whining and crying.

So, now here tonight, we suddenly have 'team mates' firing at each other and screaming and hollaring at each other and what result will that have?

You guys are letting yourselves bee divided and conquered by the bad guys.

Here's how I look at it.

Now the ball's in our court.

I didn't like the training requirement but went along with it because I was able to face the reality of what political compromise took.

I didn't like the restricted areas part but I knew that the tree hugging fear mongering pissants needed to have their comfort zones.

I didn't like what I considered the incredible expense of applying for a permit but I know somebody had to pay for the administration of the permit system.

Guess what?

That's all dead on arrival.

If the 7th comes back on our side, all deals and agreements are sucking swamp water because all bets are off. And since the Maryland Appelate already ruled that "may issue" and "no issue" were unConstitutional, there's a chance SCOTUS won't even hear a request from the IL AG.

And if the 7th comes back against and also because the Maryland Appellate has ruled in our favor, there's a guarantee that SCOTUS will hear the arguments because two Appellate courts are direct opposition on the same ruling.

Telling you, concealed carry will be the law of the land in Illinois this year.

You folks need to cowboy up.

[AFigmentOfYourImagination]

Bud, on 31 May 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

you guys kill me.

We get a setback after a year long series of wins and right away you're all ready to throw in the towel.

Harley, what's with you and the NRA? You do realize don't you that the only reason we have gotten this close is because of the NRA don't you? What, are you subscribibg to the anti-gunners rant about the NRA gun lobby? You do realize don't you is the NRA is made up and directed by the members who are for the most part just people like you and me/ or don't you?

Throw Chicxago out of the equation? Why? Because they're not real Americans who are protected by the same rights as all of us? Just because they don't understand the incrdible importance and value of the second Amendment does that mean we should turn our backs on them?

If they don't suppoort us it's not because they are against guns, it's because they have been subjected to a forty plus year long barrage by the main stream media about how bad guns are.They are being lied to by their own politicians and media.

I really don't mean any personal offense to any of you but you need to develop some spine. Just because we have suffered a setback is no reason to throw yourself doewn on the ground and start whining and crying.

So, now here tonight, we suddenly have 'team mates' firing at each other and screaming and hollaring at each other and what result will that have?

You guys are letting yourselves bee divided and conquered by the bad guys.

Here's how I look at it.

Now the ball's in our court.

I didn't like the training requirement but went along with it because I was able to face the reality of what political compromise took.

I didn't like the restricted areas part but I knew that the tree hugging fear mongering pissants needed to have their comfort zones.

I didn't like what I considered the incredible expense of applying for a permit but I know somebody had to pay for the administration of the permit system.

Guess what?

That's all dead on arrival.

If the 7th comes back on our side, all deals and agreements are sucking swamp water because all bets are off. And since the Maryland Appelate already ruled that "may issue" and "no issue" were unConstitutional, there's a chance SCOTUS won't even hear a request from the IL AG.

And if the 7th comes back against and also because the Maryland Appellate has ruled in our favor, there's a guarantee that SCOTUS will hear the arguments because two Appellate courts are direct opposition on the same ruling.

Telling you, concealed carry will be the law of the land in Illinois this year.

You folks need to cowboy up.

As for me and my family, we are not leaving this state. I'm not about to grant Madigan and friends what they want. I'd rather stick around and be a big thorn in their sides. There are only two ways I leave this state. Either they start erecting signs at every point of entry to this state with big letters that say "Socialist Utopia" on 'em, or I leave it to secure the line of work I should have been in years ago...and I'm not planning on that happening. Infact, I'm doing all I can to make sure the opposite is true.

I keep failing at typing today....

Edited by AFigmentOfYourImagination, 31 May 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[Drylok]

A very wise man once told us that we should engage brain before letting clutch out on fingers, and since I've already damn near broke that rule in half I'm going to stop just after saying I support the natural, individual, fundamental right for each and every law abiding, IL citizen to keep and bear arms, we just have different ideas of how it should/may happen.

Good night

[chicago]

Bud, on 31 May 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Chicago out of the equation? Why? Because they're not real Americans who are protected by the same rights as all of us? Just because they don't understand the incrdible importance and value of the second Amendment does that mean we should turn our backs on them?
You folks need to cowboy up.

Glad there is someone here that doesn't believe in leaving their fellow Americans behind at a time when they are most needed.  I think it would really SUCK if Chicago were to be excluded from our concealed carry bills.  WTF would my wife and I and many other Chicago 2A supporters do if we were abandoned?

Edited by chicago, 31 May 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[FarmHand357]

+1, Bud.