148 replies to this topic

[Tvandermyde]

It has been a long day, just got done watching a committee.

We have offered upchanges to SB1034 that will remove our opposition.we will see if the state police accept it.

Today a Rep. Jumpd me about a fax he got that came from a post on this site. Claiming my facts were wrong and I was spreading bad rumors. Even when I told him imconfirmed the information with a member of his staff on an hour before, and the post was over 48 hours old he stormed off in a huff after telling me he was telling people who called him i was full of $hit.

I reconfirmed the information and heard it again. Someone at state police is taking this very personal.

We continue to work on picking votes on a carry bill. But today we were approached with a request to tripple the training requirement. We declined.

The asks continue to be out of bounds compared with other states. Reading Gura's brief reenforces my belief that they can pass a reasonable bill, or the talks will be much different after we win in court.

The task force report is coming along, but 1034 took up time in lobbying and working through the issues.

They really don't like some of them internet attention  has gotten. They don't like that we blew the whistle on the threat to shut down retail sales. And some their dpn't like thenfact that gun guys  are playing the holder/DOJ gun ban card on this.

We have tried to work with them, and they could have come to us in January and said that they had some issues to work out. But here is the funny part, they have been gerting letters on this NICS. On-complaince since 2006.  Ut someone at state police was throwing them in the round file. Yes your read it right.

So in 2009 it made it to the Directors office. And still nothing. Then in October, they wrote the Governor. And for what ever reason no one told state police or did anything about it till two weeks ago.

So here we are.

We have been told as of now the House will be in session on Saturday, so I will be here keeping watch.

Some have suggested that we wait till veto sessio. To run a carry bill. It doesn't work.

If it passed, and lets say veto session was Nov 5th. They have 30 days to send it to the governor. He has 60 days to sign it. That puts us into february. The session ends sine die in january around the 12th. There would be no chance to override the veto and we start all over again.

After wading through 90 pages of an amendment and 9 pages of changes, it time for a beer.....

[bersa380]

Tvandermyde, on 24 May 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

It has been a long day, just got done watching a committee.

We have offered upchanges to SB1034 that will remove our opposition.we will see if the state police accept it.

Today a Rep. Jumpd me about a fax he got that came from a post on this site. Claiming my facts were wrong and I was spreading bad rumors. Even when I told him imconfirmed the information with a member of his staff on an hour before, and the post was over 48 hours old he stormed off in a huff after telling me he was telling people who called him i was full of $hit.

I reconfirmed the information and heard it again. Someone at state police is taking this very personal.

We continue to work on picking votes on a carry bill. But today we were approached with a request to tripple the training requirement. We declined.

The asks continue to be out of bounds compared with other states. Reading Gura's brief reenforces my belief that they can pass a reasonable bill, or the talks will be much different after we win in court.

The task force report is coming along, but 1034 took up time in lobbying and working through the issues.

They really don't like some of them internet attention  has gotten. They don't like that we blew the whistle on the threat to shut down retail sales. And some their dpn't like thenfact that gun guys  are playing the holder/DOJ gun ban card on this.

We have tried to work with them, and they could have come to us in January and said that they had some issues to work out. But here is the funny part, they have been gerting letters on this NICS. On-complaince since 2006.  Ut someone at state police was throwing them in the round file. Yes your read it right.

So in 2009 it made it to the Directors office. And still nothing. Then in October, they wrote the Governor. And for what ever reason no one told state police or did anything about it till two weeks ago.

So here we are.

We have been told as of now the House will be in session on Saturday, so I will be here keeping watch.

Some have suggested that we wait till veto sessio. To run a carry bill. It doesn't work.

If it passed, and lets say veto session was Nov 5th. They have 30 days to send it to the governor. He has 60 days to sign it. That puts us into february. The session ends sine die in january around the 12th. There would be no chance to override the veto and we start all over again.

After wading through 90 pages of an amendment and 9 pages of changes, it time for a beer.....

Thanks for the update and your continued work and dedication. Cheers!

Sent from my MB870 using Tapatalk 2

[Drylok]

You shouldn't have a beer when you haven't been doing anything all day geez

Enjoy and thank you for the update!

[Bud]

Todd,

Godspeed.

It should be obvious that a lot of us have your back.

If it dopesn't pass before recess, and if the Appellate comes back with a win for Shepard/Moore, i would suggest all bets are off and the hell with all of the deals that have already been made.

When the veto session starts next fall after an appelate win?

Then the ball's in our court.

[05FLHT]

The ILGA can keep their heads buried in the sand as long as they want. The 7th shut down games being played and orals are set for two weeks. My only hope is that if they fail to act now, that there are no negotiations, no compromises after an injunction is granted.

BTW, thank you Todd for everything you are doing and for keeping us posted.

[Uncle Harley]

Thank you for the update Todd,  Keep up the good fight!

[Talonap]

Thanks for everything, Todd! Haven't seen you on Cam's show lately - any chance of you talking to him soon about this?

[mauserme]

Clearly a delayed solution is superior to accepting of a bad solution.

If we need to wait for the 7th Circuit, so be it.  If they solve the entire problem - great.  If all they give us is a ruling upon which to build a legislative solution that might be better than otherwise attainable, that's fine too.

Last year you said something about keeping people from accepting any old crap they throw at us.  Those are still words to live by as far as I'm concerned.




Edited to ask if the complaint is already written to enjoin the ISP from taking the action they threaten?

Edited by mauserme, 24 May 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[abolt243]

24 hours of training????  When no state around us requires more than 8??   And Indiana requires NONE at ALL??  Do they really think that Illinoisians are that stupid??  We have just been insulted by those legislators.  They think we're at least 3 times stupider than all our neighbors!!

HB148 has lots of compromises from it's original form.  Go back and read the "as introduced" version and compare it to "engrossed".  It's way more stringent than I want to see in many places, training, reciprocity, penalty for prohibited places, etc.  But I'll accept it, knowing that we can then work on it to make changes in the future.  But I will not be a happy camper with any MORE restrictions.

But I'm not content to wait on the courts either.  While a big win would be a feather in our cap, look at what big wins got for D.C. and Chicago.  How long did it take that lady in D.C. to actually buy a gun??  Months??  And you can have a gun in Chicago now, in your home, after about $500 initial expense.  Not in your garage, not your porch, not your yard.  Just the living area of your house.

Court cases --  Big win = Little gain

Have a green bottle on me Todd, maybe two.  But remember tomorrow's another day and there's minds to change and hearts to win!!  Sic 'em.

Tim

[Uncle Harley]

mauserme, on 24 May 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Clearly a delayed solution is superior to accepting of a bad solution.

If we need to wait for the 7th Circuit, so be it.  If they solve the entire problem - great.  If all they give us is a ruling upon which to build a legislative solution than might be better than otherwise attainable, that's fine too.

Last year you said something about keeping people from accepting any old crap they throw at us.  Those are still words to live by as far as I'm concerned.

AMEN  just because we are close doesn't mean we should roll just to get it.    Patience is a virtue!

[AFigmentOfYourImagination]

Quote

So in 2009 it made it to the Directors office. And still nothing. Then in October, they wrote the Governor. And for what ever reason no one told state police or did anything about it till two weeks ago.

That sure seems to be something other than an accident.

Todd, I'm sorry that a Rep. approached you in such a fashion. I guess the facts are just too much for some to handle, eh? As Bud stated, it should be quite clear that many of us here indeed have your back. I would reckon a great many of us contacted our Representatives and Senators. Thank you again for all that you have done and your continuing efforts to get the full scope of the second amendment recognized here in Illinois.

[Tvandermyde]

Fricken ipad. . . . .  I'm trying to put Todd's reply in red bold,  AB

Bud, on 24 May 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Todd,

Godspeed.

It should be obvious that a lot of us have your back.

If it dopesn't pass before recess, and if the Appellate comes back with a win for Shepard/Moore, i would suggest all bets are off and the hell with all of the deals that have already been made.

When the veto session starts next fall after an appelate win?

Guys and molly, i have made it clear that if we prevail in court, then it is a different game, hb5745 reflects that.

I expect a quick loss at the appealate level and cert petition soon after. I think they will do it fast like they did McDonald and punt. HOWEVER if theynwere to rule in our favor, that opens up several doors depending on what they do? Do they simply remand, do they grant the injunction? If they do that, the AG will appeal, BUT i would think that calls for a special session would GROW very loud very fast. We could pass a carry bill in 12 hours if need be when the votes showed up.

So it depends on what they do.

Beer tastes good tonight

Then the ball's in our court.

Did I get it right Todd??

Edited by abolt243, 24 May 2012 - 07:32 PM.
Highlight Todd's reply on the "fricken' iPad"

[Buckfarrack]

Go get that coldy Todd! Thanks for the report,and all your endless hours fighting for us all.Also,thanks for not giving in when it comes to 'how much training required". I wish they would be fair and honest for once.

[Mr. Fife]

Thanks Todd. Enjoy the beer, you earned it.

[pyre400]

Thanks for the update Todd!

[papa]

Get lots of rest so you can be ready to battle with them tomorrow. Thanks Todd for everything.

[TyGuy]

Woot!

[Tvandermyde]

AB - you got it right

Guys I am at a bar reading gun blogs/ forums is that a pathetic life?

Papa - i have done some of my best work surly and hungover. . .

Bud -- i know a bunch here have my 6. The state police and a couple of reps in the meeting we had yesterday were astounded that not only  did I tell them we dare the Obama DOJ to stop retail sales, but we would welcome it. That was after explaining that NRA lawyers dont believe they have the authority to do so. Now they do t want to believe "our" lawyers and they asked me if we were willing to roll the dice -- roll the dice, I'll even put a Cnote on it.

Some thought they could scare us, and they have been smart about trying to cloak a bunch of this with thw mental health stuff and DV stuff to hide other things.

Now, the 60 day gun/ammo ban-- that was bad drafting. Rhey had a good idea, but bad langauge. And didnt see it. But. My job is not to look at intent, but how it can be used, based upon the words they use.

There is another part that talks about returning FOID cards to state police if convicted. But the way they wrote it, they changed language, that wpuld require the perspn under an oop to turn their guns in to the stateolice and for them to store them. Was that their intent? No bad drafting. Which allows me another point to argue about how bad the bill is.

That id my life  now.

They are talking about being in session saturday, and coming back monday afternoon......

Edited by Tvandermyde, 24 May 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[TFC]

Well done indeed Todd.
Looks like ISP/gun grabbers tried to panic everyone into a bad decision and of course it's backfiring on them and in a far worse way than they could have imagined.
Obviously they get a better choice by negotiating, but if they wait until the court's decision, they will have no choice, and terms will be dictated to them.
Based on the bad decision making history that they have  coupled with the bullying attitude they tried to adopt, they're likely to come up with an empty sack and lots of bruises to show for it.

[SFC Stu]

Thank you Todd!

[bsachnoff]

Todd thanks for the update.  It's great to finally hear some feedback.

So if we made concessions and took 24 hours of training we might have CCW this year?  Or was there more to it that I missed?  Regardless of that, we can't accept a bill like that now and amend it next year and the year following like all of the other states have done in order to get their CCW bills to their liking?  Or the other choice is to continue in court which could get dragged out for another 1-2-3-4 years?   I thought we would continue in court regardless of what happens with CCW in Illinois.

If I am off base, please let me know!

[colt-45]

thanks Todd for the update.

[sirflyguy]

Triple the training requirement?  It is amazing that some thing you have to be a SWAT member to be safe with a gun.  Such arrogance and ignorance.  They want to make it where the requirements are almost impossible for the average person to be able to comply.  But hey, that is how Chicago rolls.  Thanks for all you do, Todd!

[Milhouse86]

Tvandermyde, on 24 May 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

AB - you got it right

Guys I am at a bar reading gun blogs/ forums is that a pathetic life?

Papa - i have done some of my best work surly and hungover. . .

Bud -- i know a bunch here have my 6. The state police and a couple of reps in the meeting we had yesterday were astounded that not only  did I tell them we dare the Obama DOJ to stop retail sales, but we would welcome it. That was after explaining that NRA lawyers dont believe they have the authority to do so. Now they do t want to believe "our" lawyers and they asked me if we were willing to roll the dice -- roll the dice, I'll even put a Cnote on it.

Some thought they could scare us, and they have been smart about trying to cloak a bunch of this with thw mental health stuff and DV stuff to hide other things.

Now, the 60 day gun/ammo ban-- that was bad drafting. Rhey had a good idea, but bad langauge. And didnt see it. But. My job is not to look at intent, but how it can be used, based upon the words they use.

There is another part that talks about returning FOID cards to state police if convicted. But the way they wrote it, they changed language, that wpuld require the perspn under an oop to turn their guns in to the stateolice and for them to store them. Was that their intent? No bad drafting. Which allows me another point to argue about how bad the bill is.

That id my life  now.

They are talking about being in session saturday, and coming back monday afternoon......

Todd did say he was going to have a drink but damn!! haha Thanks for all the hard work. You deserve to kick back with a few.

[RECarry]

I'd like to add a pat on the back to TV as well.  Am very proud of what all of you do to monitor and promote 2A issues.

[vezpa]

Thank You Todd, I appreciate the update and all of the work you do for us.

It must be plainly clear to everyone that we aren't going to get this done legislatively.  I cannot believe that someone even asked about making the training time 24 hours!  I am a very reasonable man but just heaing someone even legitimately ask for that would send me over the deep end.  At that point I would have to realize that not only are you dealing with bastards you are dealing with people who are un-human and out-of-touch with EVERYTHING.  I'm tired of giving everything to get these bills to pass, duty to inform is already going to f**k over all of us that live in Chicago and many parts of Cook who will be dealing with cops who have never experienced a law abiding gun owner outside their own police force.

I'm not as optimistic as others about court decesions in our favor, but I'd have to say that is the way to go at this point faced with what you are dealing with.  The waiting game and committee BS gets real old.  Its nothing more than stall tactics when they already know how they are told to vote.  Its time to take the gloves off and get ready for the courts.  I'd take back everything in those bills and give them nothing if we won in the courts.  Then the anti's could blame themselves for everything that happens.

Relaxing and taking time is used when you are dealing with reasonable, rationable people who listen swear oaths to uphold the constitution and their constituents.  We are not dealing with those people. At what point do we save face and dignity by saying "we're done playing by your rules"?

Edited by vezpa, 24 May 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[mauserme]

Tvandermyde, on 24 May 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

They really don't like some of them internet attention  has gotten. They don't like that we blew the whistle on the threat to shut down retail sales. And some their dpn't like thenfact that gun guys  are playing the holder/DOJ gun ban card on this.

That sentence really bothers me because it not us who played the ERIC HOLDER'S DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INTENDS TO END FIREARM SALES IN ILLINOIS card.  They played that card when they threatened the shut down.  Many gun owners believe that Holder and others would like nothing more than to end firearm sales in this country and, whether accurate or not, the Illinois State Police is playing on that fear.  

Much of the nation will take this as proof of the very thing they've denied for the past three years.

Edited by mauserme, 25 May 2012 - 05:45 AM.

[Drylok]

I am pleased to see this update has given people a little encouragement and re-energized the members. This has turned into a cluster with sb 1034 but it sends a thrill up my leg to know you didn't buckle to their threats and infact turned the table on them! Way to be vigilant and stand your ground for all of us.

[Hatchet]

Its getting crazy down there...

Thanks Todd.

[wilessiuc]

I'm feeling very down today. Unless I am reading Todd's posts wrong, it looks like the chance of a vote happening this session on carry is not very likely. And I for one am not confident at all that the 7th Circuit will rule in our favor. I think it is more likely they "punt" the issue. Even if they do rule for us, things will most certainly get tied up while SCOTUS looks at taking the case up on appeal. So best case scenario, we are a 1-2+ years away from any real movement. Somebody tell me I'm wrong. . .