128 replies to this topic

[Bud]

all in all, a great letter and if it's all right, I will use it in an email I am writing to send to my entire address book as soon as we know it is coming up. We should have at least a one day notice.

I am also going to urge my afddress book to forward my letter to every Illinois resident in their address books and I will post it here also.

Seriously, it's time for us to all come together and work every angle to get this passed.

Now is the time.

[SFC Stu]

Tvandermyde, on 10 May 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

We are working on the task force report as fast as some can type and think

Things are getting closer

Thank you Todd!

[Buzzard]

Now, Gov. Quinn pledges to push for Gay marriage in Illinois!!After already getting a HUGE tax hike and civil unions and closing prisons and selling Thomson prison to Obama, which was a brand new prison!!

Quote

CHICAGO (CBS) – After enacting civil unions in Illinois last year, Gov. Pat Quinn said Monday he’s now ready to work towards legalizing gay marriage.
WBBM Newsradio’s Regine Schlesinger reports the governor said President Barack Obama’s announcement last week that he favors same-sex marriages is an important step to legalizing gay marriage.

“I was very happy to see the President speak out, as he did last week, and I wanted to lend my voice of support to him,” Quinn said. The governor also said he’s ready to start working with lawmakers on legalizing gay marriage in Illinois.

“Our state has enacted civil unions, the only state in the Midwest,” Quinn said. Illinois is the only state in the Midwest to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples through legislation. Same-sex marriage is legal in Iowa, after that state’s high court struck down a law barring gay marriage.
“Now we will address marriage equality and, as governor, I look forward to working with legislators and the public to make this a reality,” the governor said. “This is a process of democracy. In order to get something changed, you have to get a majority in both houses, and I plan to do that for marriage equality.”

State Rep. Greg Harris (D-Chicago), the openly gay lawmaker who spearheaded the effort to legalize same-sex civil unions in Illinois, has also proposed legislation to legalize gay marriage, but has said there isn’t enough support in the General Assembly this year to approve the measure.
According to Quinn, since he signed legislation allowing civil unions, starting last July, more than 3,700 unions have been performed. He called the law a great success.

This HAS to be where we draw the line!! I'm not against Gay marriages. But the Chicago Dems keep pushing through whatever they want and flipping us the finger on concealed carry. And that's just the way I feel about it!! COME ON SOUTHERN DEMS!! Where is your backbone?? Are you going to allow the Chicago Dems to get this on a silver platter too?? The Liberal Gravy Train gets derailed here and now!! We want concealed carry!! Southern Dems - call your representatives and tell them this must not pass. Not until we get concealed carry!!

[oneshot]

abolt243, on 10 May 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

JackTripper, on 10 May 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

billzfx4, on 10 May 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

8)The state of Illinois will miss out on a boat-load of money that can be gained through a licensing process.

I wish people would stop stating this. It really truly is not that much money. It just makes us look silly.
Illinois has an $8,000,000,000 budget deficit.
You do the math.

True, $28,000,000 profit is not much compared to an 8 BILLION deficit. But remember, Quinn wants to close prisons and mental health facitlities just to save $12 milllion.  Both of those actions put people out of work and create hardships on Illinois citizens.   You can pass RTC, put 25+ people to work, and more than make up the proposed cuts to the ISP for this year.  And that's after you upgrade the ISP computer system and make some improvements to other equipment.

The financial aspect is certainly NOT a negative.

Tim

Wonder if we can get AFSCME on board to save state employee benefits as a trade?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Buckfarrack]

Lou, on 13 May 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Bud, on 13 May 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

The vote will be before the 23rd of this month

I'll make sure to have a bottle of Merlot ready in honor of 'Ole Coach.  He would have wanted it.

Yes sir! 'Ole Gene'o will be with us for sure!     (tink),to an 'ol friend,RIP 'OleCoach,i think it's going to happen.

[Gray Peterson]

Buzzard, on 14 May 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Now, Gov. Quinn pledges to push for Gay marriage in Illinois!!After already getting a HUGE tax hike and civil unions and closing prisons and selling Thomson prison to Obama, which was a brand new prison!!

Quote

CHICAGO (CBS) – After enacting civil unions in Illinois last year, Gov. Pat Quinn said Monday he’s now ready to work towards legalizing gay marriage.
WBBM Newsradio’s Regine Schlesinger reports the governor said President Barack Obama’s announcement last week that he favors same-sex marriages is an important step to legalizing gay marriage.

“I was very happy to see the President speak out, as he did last week, and I wanted to lend my voice of support to him,” Quinn said. The governor also said he’s ready to start working with lawmakers on legalizing gay marriage in Illinois.

“Our state has enacted civil unions, the only state in the Midwest,” Quinn said. Illinois is the only state in the Midwest to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples through legislation. Same-sex marriage is legal in Iowa, after that state’s high court struck down a law barring gay marriage.
“Now we will address marriage equality and, as governor, I look forward to working with legislators and the public to make this a reality,” the governor said. “This is a process of democracy. In order to get something changed, you have to get a majority in both houses, and I plan to do that for marriage equality.”

State Rep. Greg Harris (D-Chicago), the openly gay lawmaker who spearheaded the effort to legalize same-sex civil unions in Illinois, has also proposed legislation to legalize gay marriage, but has said there isn’t enough support in the General Assembly this year to approve the measure.
According to Quinn, since he signed legislation allowing civil unions, starting last July, more than 3,700 unions have been performed. He called the law a great success.

This HAS to be where we draw the line!! I'm not against Gay marriages. But the Chicago Dems keep pushing through whatever they want and flipping us the finger on concealed carry. And that's just the way I feel about it!! COME ON SOUTHERN DEMS!! Where is your backbone?? Are you going to allow the Chicago Dems to get this on a silver platter too?? The Liberal Gravy Train gets derailed here and now!! We want concealed carry!! Southern Dems - call your representatives and tell them this must not pass. Not until we get concealed carry!!

Let's do the math.

Carry requires 71 votes for home rule overriding.  A marriage bill does not require 71 votes because the state has already preempted the marriage issue way back when they rewrote the IL Compiled Statutes back in the 1960's or so.   Marriage supporters only need 60 or so.

Just a word of advice who's been on both political fights:  Making statements as a "liberal gravy train" in re the marriage issue doesn't help you get votes on 2A issues.  It only makes you, and by extension the Illinois Carry community, look like you're engaging in ideological warfare against "liberals", when A) We need the votes of some of those "liberals" who would likely vote for both and B) the issue is not as ideologically based as you think that it is, especially in light of Ted Olson's and numerous other conservatives involvement in this specific issue.

Don't make this fight about liberalism or conservatism.  Too many of us shoot ourselves in the foot by engaging in ideological battles and using terms like "liberal" to describe anti-gunners.  It makes us look like morons.  I've gotten more to come over to the side of freedom in re RKBA  & the marriage issue because I don't make it about political ideology.

[4thestars]

Gray Peterson, on 15 May 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Don't make this fight about liberalism or conservatism.  Too many of us shoot ourselves in the foot by engaging in ideological battles and using terms like "liberal" to describe anti-gunners.  It makes us look like morons.  I've gotten more to come over to the side of freedom in re RKBA  & the marriage issue because I don't make it about political ideology.

I so totally agree with this.

Folks, please, pleeeeeeeaaaase remember that pro-2A does not equal "Conservative"!   Being pro-2A does not mean that one is automatically on board with other officially Conservative ideals, especially on social issues. Heck, for that matter, there are a surprising number of otherwise Conservative people who are against guns.

Seriously, being in favor of things like gay marriage or protecting the environment does not automatically mean that one is anti-gun or pro-nanny state or any of those other things we talk about around here.

We do indeed shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot by automatically and publicly alienating folks who might be pro-2A but otherwise disagree with much the Conservative agenda. Folks in this position are the ones we need to win over come election time. These folks have a tough decision -vote for a candidate that is pro-2A but otherwise is against many of their other principles, or vote for a candidate that is anti-gun but for a large number of other issues. But we can win them over. Take them out shooting so they can learn to see the sporting aspect of guns. Take the time to teach them how firearms work and how safety features work. Take time to teach them that semi-auto does not mean machine gun. For law-abiding citizens, firearms can be tools, sporting goods, historic collectibles, and defensive weapons. We've got a much better chance of winning these potential 2A supporters over if we don't try to ram all of Conservative ideology down their throats.

[Buzzard]

I struggled on whether to post those comments or continue to keep quiet. But, in my opinion the Chicago caucus is just being SO piggish about getting all they can get and not giving an inch in the direction of carry. I am set in my position on this. For the good of the cause I will keep quiet. But in my silence I am steaming mad. And it's not so much about WHAT they are passing - it's HOW MUCH OF IT they are passing.

They speak in terms of "compromise", but they do not compromise themselves. It's not MY fault that what they are passing is at the top of the Liberal wish list. They are making the choices. Tell me anyone - what have they compromised on as far as gun issues? We ask for carry and they make us to jump through hoops trying to make it as difficult as possible. Chicago is being liberal PIGS. That's not MY fault.  

Not only that, but they say this is what Illinois wants. Not in MY part of Illinois, it's not. Why is it so many people are moving OUT of Illinois? it's because they are as sick of this Chicago bully tactics as I am. They are setting the agenda. They are passing the issues that are important to them. And then when we ask for carry, they extend their middle finger and say "GO SPIT!!" They're the ones making this political.  I've said my piece. I will say no more in this regard.

[colt-45]

Buzzard, on 15 May 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I struggled on whether to post those comments or continue to keep quiet. But, in my opinion the Chicago caucus is just being SO piggish about getting all they can get and not giving an inch in the direction of carry. I am set in my position on this. For the good of the cause I will keep quiet. But in my silence I am steaming mad. And it's not so much about WHAT they are passing - it's HOW MUCH OF IT they are passing.

They speak in terms of "compromise", but they do not compromise themselves. It's not MY fault that what they are passing is at the top of the Liberal wish list. They are making the choices. Tell me anyone - what have they compromised on as far as gun issues? We ask for carry and they make us to jump through hoops trying to make it as difficult as possible. Chicago is being liberal PIGS. That's not MY fault.  

Not only that, but they say this is what Illinois wants. Not in MY part of Illinois, it's not. Why is it so many people are moving OUT of Illinois? it's because they are as sick of this Chicago bully tactics as I am. They are setting the agenda. They are passing the issues that are important to them. And then when we ask for carry, they extend their middle finger and say "GO SPIT!!" They're the ones making this political.  I've said my piece. I will say no more in this regard.

i agree buzz.

[Jeffrey]

+1 to Bud's post.  I just read through the thread on all of the "no" voters from 148.  Almost every damn one has a Chicago address.  I keep hearing the Nuge singing "stranglehold" in the back of my head.

[Bud]

I really pay absolutely no attention anymore to terms like "democrat and republican", "liberal and conservative" or "right wing or left wing".

I can no longer tell the differences between either ideology.

I now try to look at every single issue as being "right or wrong" or "good or bad".

[kurt555gs]

Bud, on 15 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I really pay absolutely no attention anymore to terms like "democrat and republican", "liberal and conservative" or "right wing or left wing".

I can no longer tell the differences between either ideology.

I now try to look at every single issue as being "right or wrong" or "good or bad".

* Carthago Delenda Est *

[Sigma]

I agree say no to every bill they want until the stop pushing goofy registration bills and such

[KingWalleye]

I am really hoping for  a "document dump" late Friday afternoon. This seems to be the way it goes when
"certain people" try to hide bad news (for them) when most people aren't particularly paying attention to the news.

I know Todd and others are hammering away. Keep swinging brothers and sisters!

[vern]

Anything new on this?

[C0untZer0]

Quote

I could be wrong, but I thought Phelps said we were 2 votes away a couple of months ago??

Last week he said it could be "This week or next"

Those two weeks have come and gone.

But - oh well...

[Molly B.]

We're all still sitting impatiently on the edge of our seats . . .

[Federal Farmer]

This (1/32) native is restless!

[xmikex]

Buzzard, on 15 May 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Not only that, but they say this is what Illinois wants. Not in MY part of Illinois, it's not. Why is it so many people are moving OUT of Illinois? it's because they are as sick of this Chicago bully tactics as I am. They are setting the agenda. They are passing the issues that are important to them. And then when we ask for carry, they extend their middle finger and say "GO SPIT!!" They're the ones making this political.  I've said my piece. I will say no more in this regard.

I've mentioned it before but....

Population:
- Illinois: 12.9 Million
- Chicago: 2.9 Million (22.5% of Illinois' population)
- Chicago Metro Area: 9.8 Million (75.9% of Illinois' population)
- The REST of the state: 3.1 Million (24% of Illinois' population)


Chicago gets more representation in the House because.... they have more people.  It's not some conspiracy - it's population.  CCW and the 2nd Amendment are a civil rights issue.  When we get more people on our side (no matter WHAT party they belong to) and they see it as a fundamental right (like free speech, etc.), we'll win.

Chicago reps are pushing the agenda that 22.5% of the state wants (gay marriage, protecting unions, education funding, environmental laws etc.).  When their constituents start pushing for CCW, (or when the courts see it as a fundamental right and force the issue), we'll get CCW.  In MY experience - most people in Chicago associate guns with gangs.  They're also largely OK with people shooting badguys but don't really understand CCW and think that having guns around will "just escalate situations" to violence that wouldn't normally get there.  They don't see the deterrent effect, the leveling of the playing field, the fact that thugs are going to CCW anyway, etc.  They think more guns = more crime.  

They're buying the message sold to them by media and the politicians - not thinking critically about things.

If we can get people thinking, we'll win through the legislature.

[drdoom]

In my view, next week is the legislatures LAST opportunity to deal properly with this, otherwise, once the courts get to it, ALL bets are off.

[Vade]

drdoom, on 18 May 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

In my view, next week is the legislatures LAST opportunity to deal properly with this, otherwise, once the courts get to it, ALL bets are off.

lol is that a good thing?

[C0untZer0]

It's such a battle.

Do the anti-gunners write their reps, and make campaign contributions and have the equivilant of an anti-IGOLD day?

I'm, so angry and resentful of thi situation that I keep having fantasies that the Seventh Circuit rules Illinois UUW unconstitutional and then when the anti-gunners rush back into session to contcoct a new bill, our pro-gun politicians just block it and say "too bad - day late dollar short"

[vess1]

Sigma, on 15 May 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

I agree say no to every bill they want until the stop pushing goofy registration bills and such

  

  The tax increase was the big one.  We did have a majority vote for concealed carry so obviously the tax increase could have been voted down until our side got something out of the deal.  I will never understand how our elected officials let that fly through without any challenges or expectations.  They dont compromise anything.  
  FWIW,  were going to need more votes than the exact amount required before Im celebrating.   If we had 5 more than we needed, at least there would be some cushion.  If theres no cushion, we're just setting ourselves up for a bigger dissapointment than last time as we fall one vote short.    Were going to need them all not only once but twice.    I can only hope this November clears some antis out to make it easier.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2

[GldRush98]

C0untZer0, on 18 May 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Quote

I could be wrong, but I thought Phelps said we were 2 votes away a couple of months ago??

Last week he said it could be "This week or next"

Those two weeks have come and gone.

But - oh well...

They're still in session this week.  This is the last week, so we should know something by the end of the week I believe.

[Drylok]

Unless they extend the session of course.

[colt-45]

i can guarantee they will be.

[Ranger]

Lots of wisdom in that post.  I used to see issues and people in very polar terms.  If the person supported a certain stance I disagreed with, they were a bad guy.  If they thought like I, they were a good guy.  Now I realize that not everyone who disagrees with me on an issue is a bad guy and not everyone who agrees is a good guy.  It simply means they disagree or agree on that issue.  Good people can agree to disagree.  Hopefully, we can just convince more to agree with us on this issue.

Bud, on 15 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I really pay absolutely no attention anymore to terms like "democrat and republican", "liberal and conservative" or "right wing or left wing".

I can no longer tell the differences between either ideology.

I now try to look at every single issue as being "right or wrong" or "good or bad".

[Ranger]

FWIW:  I too feel that there have been plenty of opportunities where agreements could have been worked out where some support could have been gained for 2nd amendment LTC in exchange for support of other issues; but...

[bob]

Ranger, on 21 May 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

FWIW:  I too feel that there have been plenty of opportunities where agreements could have been worked out where some support could have been gained for 2nd amendment LTC in exchange for support of other issues; but...

Not much in the way of goodies in LTC to any individual legislator who is not otherwise inlined toward it.

Now if the LTC legislation stated the new LTC bureau would be located in a certain district and a certain amount of funds would be allocated for putting up a new building for the LTC bureau, you could potentially get some votes out of that.

[Blackhawk067]

Bud, on 15 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I really pay absolutely no attention anymore to terms like "democrat and republican", "liberal and conservative" or "right wing or left wing".

I can no longer tell the differences between either ideology.

I now try to look at every single issue as being "right or wrong" or "good or bad".

If only the rest of the population would wake up and do the same...we'd be in great shape.