85 replies to this topic

[Uncle Harley]

Drylok, on 10 May 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

I tried it once in IN and it felt like there was a big neon sign over my head screaming look at me I'm carrying a gun! It was uncomfortable, akward and I felt like a jack ass. Never again!

That goes away after awhile.

[Buckfarrack]

This topic is exactly what most of the anti CC people fear!!!! If you don't believe me,you just start asking some of the mothers with her children by her side at a public place if it would make a difference seeing a firearm on persons hip or concealed,then you will find out.one of the reasons, WHY we don't have a CC law in effect right now.A lot of people do not want to see some large gun barrel nearly rubbing one's kneecap in Walmart right next to her children.That same person may not be so anti if they were 'assured by law' that they would 'probably' never know who had a gun via CC.They will feel more comfortable when their children are near a person with a firearm.And,NO i am Not going to present evidence to back-up my opinion ,as i see it, it is nothing but commom sense and I have quized several. Open carry is one of our rights but we are not talking about tieing up the horse and walking into a blacksmith shop and spit on the floor when EVERY man had a big gun on his hip.The OC would apply to EVERYONE,not just YOU.Do as you please but i don't think you will have much intrest in this heavy populated state.Maybe a western desert county,but not here. Good Luck! Did you OC in Germany? Just wondering is all.

[RECarry]

If the state ever allowed OC, they would also require you to wear a gay-glo orange vest. For safety, you know.

[Davey]

I have no problem with open carrying.  It might not be for me but I know that it may be good for others.

[bornhunter04]

boog, on 10 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Getzapped, on 09 May 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Jason4567, on 09 May 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Why not, it works for Rick Grimes...

that is a nice wheel gun he carries too! But back to the topic. i wouldn't mind the option to open carry, i spend alot of time outdoors in the summer, and like mentioned above it would be nice to be comfortable in warm weather without having to to keep and lcr tucked in your pocket.

I believe the guy on the left already has his finger on the trigger. Maybe hollywood should get him in a firearm safety class.
Boog

Ya he does, since he was trying to kill rick too....... Anyway, he needs to tie that hogleg down to his thigh, as much as that thing flops around it's amazing he aint lost it.....

On the subject of OC i posted this on the hide in response to a thread about it: "I don't bother with OC. The area's that I carry, have cities with laws concerning open carry, and In metropolitan area's it can get a little dicey trying to figure out where one town ends and one town begins, thus the difference in laws..... But if i conceal carry it, they can't say nothing. Also, your less likely to get grief from business and other people if they don't even know you have it. Would OC be easier in terms of wardrobe/no printing? Hell yes. But the other hassles that go along with it, mitigate that. So IWB she goes."

Even if i wanted to open carry i wouldn't do it without some sort of level2 or 3 retention holster. Which then means i would A) have to buy yet another holster learn to draw from said holster.......Just easier to slip it  in a crossbreed and go with it.

Edited by bornhunter04, 10 May 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[TyGuy]

Rick, ugh, what a terrible "leader"

Why do I like OC?  It's way more comfortable than CC.  Sure, I can think of one instance where an OCer was robbed of their firearm (see Wisconsin), but I can also think of instances where OCers detered crime (see Waffle House).

I do think OC up in Wisconsin DID help them pass CC.  So I do see it as a valid form or activism or protest, but in the end I don't find anything in the 2nd Ammendment that requires me to conceal my arms while bearing them.  I would prefer each individual to make the choice for themselves.

[Drylok]

It would be easier if the die hard OC guys would stop making up excuses and just admit they want open carry because they want to strutt around like a ***** *** with their gun hanging off their side. At home, out on the range or something that's one thing, but oc on the street makes you look like an attention *****. I mean the PA guys are now open carrying and keeping recorders with them and even putting cameras on their dash boards just waiting, begging for an encounter. It's nausiating and childish

[Danielm60660]

What's the saying? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[TyGuy]

I disagree Drylok.  It's more comfortable, you can more easily carry a larger caliber or extra magazines, it's faster to deploy, and it has a net positive effect.  There are plenty of stories at OC.org of OCers getting thanked by others.  If you look presentable and conduct yourself in a positive manner then people will pick up that you are not a bad guy, and then they tend to feel better that a good guy is armed nearby.

Again, where in the 2nd Ammendment does it state that your arms should be concealed?  Are we talking about preference or legality?  If preference then we might as well give up on CC in IL too as many people would prefer us not to be armed.  However, if we are taking a legal stance, as we cite the 2A to gain us CC, then we must admit OC also.

[TyGuy]

Danielm60660, on 10 May 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

What's the saying? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I'll drink to that.  Not everyone will OC, but I don't find a compelling legal argument for it not to be allowed.

My wife is a big breast feeding supporter.  Her and I both think breast feeding in public should be totally legal, which it is in IL.  However she still usually retires to a private area or at least uses a cover when feeding, even though by law she could just pop her boob out.  I think she should be protected to do it that way even though she personally doesn't want to, but I wouldn't hold it against another mother that would feed that way.

Edited by TyGuy, 10 May 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Drylok]

I support the right unconditionally, i just don't care for it or the attitudes that so many of the ocers have. Just go to the open carry forum on the PAFOA site and read for a couple hours, they are hot heads.
It may just be because too many of the folks who do open carry have an attitude and I just haven't met enough distinguished gentlemen like yourself who are die hard OCers. Oh and as far as access, as long as you can access, draw, extend, touch, press in about 2 1/2 seconds you're good to go so I don't worry about that part.

[Uncle Harley]

I'm a big fan of OC  because  well I'm big.......  once you hit the 300lb mark   NOTHING is comfortable inside the waistband.  So I'm stuck with pocket carry, or untucked shirt.  I do like that they finally made a provision in 148  concealed or " mostly concealed"  (  I think that was the wording )   my fear with CC was my gun showing  since my pants ride pretty low below my belly.  

If open carry were allowed, that is what I would do 90% of the time,  but I do understand there is a time and place to cover up.

[GarandFan]

I find this topic to be somewhat interesting but also one that's beaten to death with little agreement and much conflict.

I have been somewhat colored from the perspective gained by living in a "Gold Star Open Carry" state for three years now.  In those three years, I have seen exactly three people open-carrying (and two of them were together).  And believe me ... there are a hell of a lot more than 3 people around here who carry guns.  I open carry occasionally, but usually only when I am out in a rural area.  My own personal decision that I've come to is that I prefer not to advertise that I am armed.  Only my personal preference.

I think we can all agree that bearing arms is our right ... thus that open carry should be a lawful activity, just like concealed carry should be lawful.  I also suspect many of us agree that there should be no requirement of having to ask the government for permission to exercise these rights.

But in the imperfect world in which we live, we choose our battles (and choose them collectively, based on support and on the number of people who would potentially benefit from winning said battle).  I am not saying that approach is right or wrong, but rather, just how it is.  The battle to bring concealed carry to IL is being waged hard, and much progress has been made.  I'd also like to note that it's being waged mostly by a very small number of very dedicated individuals who are working their butts off, even if it is supported by a huge number of people and some of them happen to think of themselves as professional armchair quarterbacks.  The battle to bring open carry to IL has largely been set aside, in part based on a collective decision that licensed concealed carry is lower-hanging fruit, and because concealed carry would positively affect far more people on a practical and every-day basis than would open carry.

So in summary, my view is that while we all agree that "bearing arms" means "carrying them around however you want to" ... these "open carry" discussions (including this one started by Kurt) accomplish little more than distraction and division.  If Kurt wants to be elected as a state legislator and introduce open carry bills, then more power to him.  But the most important thing is that we find common ground on the big issues, set aside our petty differences on the little issues, and work toward attainable goals.

[TyGuy]

Drylok, on 10 May 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I support the right unconditionally, i just don't care for it or the attitudes that so many of the ocers have. Just go to the open carry forum on the PAFOA site and read for a couple hours, they are hot heads.
It may just be because too many of the folks who do open carry have an attitude and I just haven't met enough distinguished gentlemen like yourself who are die hard OCers. Oh and as far as access, as long as you can access, draw, extend, touch, press in about 2 1/2 seconds you're good to go so I don't worry about that part.

Let's get a beer, cause I'm good with that.

Yeah, there are hot heads everywhere.  There are hot head big wang OCers, CCers, LEOs, etc... There are also kind calm OCers, CCers, LEOs etc...

I am not a die hard OCer, I just want the option to be there.  I used to OC a lot more when CC in WI was illegal, but I usually do conceal.  However, I still reserve the right to OC where legal.

I do think OC is faster and easier than CC.  No shirt to move out of the way, the holster position the grip so that it's easier to grab (it's not pressed into your body) and the like.  I don't know that it makes a huge difference, but I'll take any advatange I can get when confronted by a criminal with muderous intent.  I'll spit in their eyes, kick em in the boys, in general play dirty if if means coming out alive.

I do think OCing of a rifle is more of a political statment than practical, but I'm ok with that too.  I mean, you're going to have a hard time employing that system as quickly as a pistol if confronted by a criminal, but it's better than being unarmed (much like container carry in IL).

As long as people are respectful and lawful I don't begrudge them the method of how they carry.

[Drylok]

Tyguy, let's get this thing done and I'll take you up on that beer.

Garand, I agree that these conversations have been beaten and accomplish next to nothing, but I just chalk it up to a group of fairly like minded people just killing time while we're waiting in on this thing and for those who have done their part with regards to contacting legislators and so forth I find it acceptable to spend time having these talks. Besides it helps us keep our sanity while we wait with great anticipation for action on the bills we've worked so hard on. I hope all is well down there in the land of the free!

[Getzapped]

i have to say that Drylok has a point.  There are certain risks involved with OC.  If you are in an urban area you will most likely be inviting trouble.  i have no doubt that there will be plenty of MWG calls.  I spend alot of my summer days out in the country and OC would be a good option there, with few people around and those that are wouldn't think twice about it.  But in a heavily populated area, there is risk of someone trying to snatch and OC gun, which could lead to something much worse, scared people that will call in a MWG and anti-gun people who will call in MWG just to do it!  i support all RTC and will take whatever illinois will give me!

[Uncle Harley]

Drylok, on 10 May 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Tyguy, let's get this thing done and I'll take you up on that beer.

Garand, I agree that these conversations have been beaten and accomplish next to nothing, but I just chalk it up to a group of fairly like minded people just killing time while we're waiting in on this thing and for those who have done their part with regards to contacting legislators and so forth I find it acceptable to spend time having these talks. Besides it helps us keep our sanity while we wait with great anticipation for action on the bills we've worked so hard on. I hope all is well down there in the land of the free!

LOL aint that the truth,  it would get pretty boring around here   sometimes if it wasn't for  some of these beaten to death topics.

[TyGuy]

Let's get to the heart of the matter 45acp or 9mm?

[TyGuy]

[Getzapped]

Well, played!!   please refer to post #2 http://illinoiscarry...ndpost&p=327615

[Drylok]

TyGuy, on 10 May 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Let's get to the heart of the matter 45acp or 9mm?

Ok you need to read the rules of the forum, no top water baits or trolling in the RTC forum Oh man I do love my extended family at illinoiscarry.com! Ya bunch of danged knot heads!

[TyGuy]

It was a joke.  I wasn't trolling, just pointing out how, like you said, we have too much free time while waiting for the vote, and we end up arguing over things that don't matter as much as actually getting RTC in IL.

Yeah, I almost posted that picture again.

[kurt555gs]

Why is this adversarial? I support all of the efforts to pass concealed carry. I also think that anyone with a FOID card should be able to open carry in non home rule jurisdictions. There are many that would just like to walk in their neighborhood or on state trails and have a firearm with them. Not everyone wants to go through the fingerprinting, and license fees for concealed carry if they just don't want to be a felon walking over to their neighbors at night. I think the strategy of keeping everyone in Illinois as unarmed hostages to try and force Chicago to accept concealed carry is not well thought out and just plain wrong. What Molly is doing with town hall meetings and good words will eventually get the votes for statewide concealed carry whether the rest of us can open carry or not. Open and concealed carry are not mutually exclusive. I see the opportunity for an open carry bill that does not include home rule communities. I do not see any good reason the pro 2A community should oppose it. I see this discussion being lead way off track by those that want all or nothing. that isn't the way the world works.  

If HB5745 passes, then we will be stuck with a license to both open or conceal carry, and un-licensed open carry will be a dead issue. That is a compromise I can live with. If it's HB148, then un-licensed open carry will still be needed. If neither passes, then open carry will probably be our only option other than what we have now for some time to come, and playing Illinois gun owners by keeping no legal option is not only wrong, but self serving of the leadership of organizations we all support.

I don't need anyone's permission here to do what I plan. I would like support. But, if it is a fight, then bring your motives out. Let the gun owners in Illinois know that the leadership of the major 2A organizations are keeping Illinois un-armed denying open carry because their only plan is all or nothing.

Edited by kurt555gs, 10 May 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Scots]

It's got nothing to do with the two issues themselves being adversarial. It has everything to do with the two processes being potentially adversarial as long as the CC bill is still in question and pending a vote.

To me, that's the distinguishing factor here.

[Drylok]

And the bottom line is Kurt that we have to go with the kind of bill that can get the votes. Then we'll fix the bill 60 votes at a time.

[kurt555gs]

Drylok, on 10 May 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

And the bottom line is Kurt that we have to go with the kind of bill that can get the votes. Then we'll fix the bill 60 votes at a time.

As I said, I plan to do this in the next session. I won't try to sneak it into the veto session. You have plenty of time before I will introduce what I plan. I hope a concealed carry bill becomes law before then. If it's HB5745 then I'll drop my idea.

Otherwise, join me or expect a good fight.

[Danielm60660]

Drylok, on 10 May 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

And the bottom line is Kurt that we have to go with the kind of bill that can get the votes. Then we'll fix the bill 60 votes at a time.

I get what you're saying Drylok. Some here do not...

Edited by Danielm60660, 10 May 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Drylok]

Who are you going to ask to write it and who are you going to ask to introduce it? Just curious

[Getzapped]

Kurt, i'm confused!  Most likely i am just ignorant, but are you a politician?  how are you going to introduce this to the GA?  I am just unfamiliar with your background.  My apologies if this was discussed elswhere.

[C0untZer0]

I once had a feminist make a big deal of feeding her babie in front of me.  She made sure she sat down directly across from me and fed her twins - no blanket or anything.  She must have thought she was going to shock me, or get a comment from me.  She also engaged me in conversation while she was feeding them, so maye she was trying to see if I would either avert my eyes and not look at her altogether, or stare at her boobs.

But I digress !

I was in Arizona where  OC is not a big deal - people don't get panicky when they see someone carrying a gun.  I don't think OC is as much a legal matter as it is cultural.  I'd like OC because it's easier to get in and out of cars if the holster flips up, but I don't see the need to take out my frustration about the 2nd Amendment oppression on the general public.  I don't want to be that kind of activist, I write letters I join organizations, I make campaign contributions, I vote, I don't want to make a big deal of carrying for the sake of advancing the cause.