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HB-1907 state RICO by Cook County States Attorney


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#1 Tvandermyde

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

HB-1907 will be up in the Senate Exec Committee next week for a hearing.

After reviewing it, it has some problems and concerns for gun owners.

We often hear from the antis how they think their is an evil plot by manufacturers and dealers to look the other way and arm the gangs and criminals. We all know that is not true.

So the Cook County SA is pitching a RICO statute for the State that would allow any SA to open an RICO type investigation if two of the "predicate" acts take place. AG-UUW is one of those Acts.

We all know the type of love we get fromt he Cook County SA office and their hostility to the Second Amendment.

And we remember when the firearms industry was under attack by litigation to drive them out of business. Here we go again.

please call members of the committee and your senator and tell them to oppose HB-1907.
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#2 AFigmentOfYourImagination

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:28 PM

Wtf...

What is wrong with these people? Why do they base their whole existence on pissing on the second amendment rights of folks, and to stomp out the gun industry? Sorry, I know none of us can answer that...it's just so darn frustrating watching the same politicians (whom are supposed to carry out what their constituents - not their own damn agendas). Have they ever read a history book? What planet or parallel universe are they from that they don't appreciate the fact that firearms were amongst the tools used to help us win our independence from the British?!

heck, I'm surprised they haven't tried to sue Ford using the same logic when people speed and/or get in an accident while driving a Ford Mustang.

I don't think Mr. Jacobs would vote in favor of it...but I'll drop him a line to encourage him not to.

ETA: Thank for giving us a heads up, Todd. I think I speak for most when I say "Thank you" for all that you do. The same is to be said for the folks that make this website possible. Thanks to the whole lot of ya.

Edited by AFigmentOfYourImagination, 27 April 2012 - 12:32 PM.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill


#3 colt-45

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

thanks for the heads up Todd. but i still don't fully understand what they are trying to get out this or what will happen if this passes.

#4 Uncle Harley

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

HB-1907 will be up in the Senate Exec Committee next week for a hearing.

After reviewing it, it has some problems and concerns for gun owners.

We often hear from the antis how they think their is an evil plot by manufacturers and dealers to look the other way and arm the gangs and criminals. We all know that is not true.

So the Cook County SA is pitching a RICO statute for the State that would allow any SA to open an RICO type investigation if two of the "predicate" acts take place. AG-UUW is one of those Acts.

We all know the type of love we get fromt he Cook County SA office and their hostility to the Second Amendment.

And we remember when the firearms industry was under attack by litigation to drive them out of business. Here we go again.

please call members of the committee and your senator and tell them to oppose HB-1907.


yes, please explain. My senator's secretary is a friend of mine and she will ask me what this one is about when I call , and I'd like to be able to explain it sensably.
"A river cuts through a rock not because of its power but its persistence." - Jim Watkins


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#5 Sigma

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

should we fill out those witness form thingy's
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#6 C0untZer0

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

RICO is RICO, just because they pass this doesn't make RICo something it's not.

If I shoot some burglar, I'm not going to be convicted of racketeering just because this law is on the books.

I'm not sure what the law accomplishes though anyway. If gangs could succesfully be tried under RICo then why don't they just do it?
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#7 colt-45

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:45 PM

i still don't understand what this has to do with me shooting a robber or raper in my house. if it gang related than i can go to jail or cause it was a shooting they will try me on RICO law? see i'm confused.

#8 TFC

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

RICO laws are tricky. They're the catch all law that government likes to use when they don't have anything else on you.
They always clam it's to go after gangs, but they will go after anyone using it. By their design, they're bad bills.
~If you speak of a gun as a toy, then you see medical waste as playground filler. Yes, it means you're a screwed up individual.~
~"An invasion of mainland America is unwise. Behind every blade of grass a rifle would await us"
-Yamamoto Isoroku
I predicted that Chicago/Cook county will be sold out in order to get "shall issue".
Based on the restrictions on carry in Chicago/Cook County, I was right.

...doing just enough to keep them out of Federal Court...

#9 colt-45

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:34 PM

we need to stop this bill before it begins.

#10 C0untZer0

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

RICO ???

RICO is like a tango - it takes 2 to tango. I shoot a home invader, I'm RICOing with who? Myself ???

I love that saying "I'm an army of one" - well it sounds good but I'm not an organiztion of one.

I am all for fighting anti-gun legislation. I also don't like BS anti-gun legislation that purports to be anti-crime. and dresses itself in anti-crime verbiage when it's just a gun grab. I especially don't like piling up more gun legislation when the government doesn't enforce the existing gun laws against criminals anyway. I am willing to keep an open mind on this, but no one has explained to me how this is a bad bill for your average gun owner.

My opinion of it, upon reading it is that it's basicaly a useless piece of legislation that is redundant and probably political grandstanding. I don't think it's going to affect the average gun owner, even if they use their gun to defend themselves. And I don't think it magically gives RICO statutes any more power than they already have.

I think we need to be carefully about which legislation we oppose. This seems like it could be used to paint us in a very bad light - "hamstringing law enforcement" "willing to let criminals continue to commit crime as long as we can keep our guns - yada yada...
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#11 Talonap

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:40 AM

I still don't understand it either.

#12 Tvandermyde

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:54 AM

Under this proposed bill, if two "predicate offenses" take place, one could be before the law was signed, then the SA can start up a RICO investigation whixh includes forfeiture.

It makes it illegal to:

“Sec. 33G-4. Prohibited activities. Under this Article:
(a) It is unlawful for any person:
(1) who is employed by or associated with any enterprise, knowingly to conduct or participate, directly or indirectly, in such enterprise's affairs through either a pattern of predicate activity or the collection of unlawful debt; or”

If Illinis carry advocated for a mass act of civil disobediance, by carrying a gun, they could be charged and prsecuted under a RICO claim. ISRA or NRA are claimed to be in the business of supplying guns to criminal types. Have a couple of members so don't like Illinois carry ban try to stage a six seconds to safety rally, be charged with AG-UUW and away we go.

How about the gun dealers who live up to the letter of the law and start the clock on the waiting period when the gun is ordered? Cook charges 24-3 violation and knows they ARE supplying guns to gangs and moves to seize the store.

Just think about how two or more of us could be spun into a conspiricy or the fact that some of us may carry against the law and they spin that with their wild notions of what we do, and dragging any of the gun dealers, ranges, or organizations into defending themsleves.

int he 90's the ruse was to use civil litigation to force their will. This is no different, except, a AG-UUW could now add 10 years to a jail time and take all your property.
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#13 colt-45

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:12 AM

what do we need to do if this bill pass? we can't rally any more cause of getting a auuw out of it.

Edited by colt-45, 29 April 2012 - 08:26 AM.


#14 TFC

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

Basically, if you work for a gun shop, sporting goods store, or even a bakery with one crooked employee, if the suspect is charged with 2 counts, RICO can kick in, even if none of the other employees is involved.

The real problem is that by the time things get sorted out, everyone, even the innocent will be left broke and ruined.
Mix in asset forfeiture and the real horror starts.
That is how RICO (actually) works.

Edited by TFC, 29 April 2012 - 08:32 PM.

~If you speak of a gun as a toy, then you see medical waste as playground filler. Yes, it means you're a screwed up individual.~
~"An invasion of mainland America is unwise. Behind every blade of grass a rifle would await us"
-Yamamoto Isoroku
I predicted that Chicago/Cook county will be sold out in order to get "shall issue".
Based on the restrictions on carry in Chicago/Cook County, I was right.

...doing just enough to keep them out of Federal Court...

#15 colt-45

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

how can any one vote for this bill. so if one goes down than they all go down? that's not a bill that's revenge. we need to fight this bill and kill it fast. or we all will suffer with this if it pass.

#16 milq

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

RICO can be very easily abused and this seems like it would give more leeway for that.

On the other hand, maybe the entire legislature could be knocked out of office with this. (I kid, I kid)
Good night Chesty, wherever you are.

Visit my Illinois RTC/Pro 2A blog: Steel on Target

#17 lieut89

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 06:49 AM

It seems that many of those that voted NO on this bill in the House are anti-2A. It passed the House 90-23, and pretty much all of the pro-2A Reps. voted in favor. So what gives?

#18 Tvandermyde

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

It seems that many of those that voted NO on this bill in the House are anti-2A. It passed the House 90-23, and pretty much all of the pro-2A Reps. voted in favor. So what gives?


This thing popped up when we were working RTC hard. So it got passed me. I have testified against this bill before.

We killed it once in a Senate Committee, where I testified against it and thought we had this thing killed until Anita came down to talk tot he Senate President, and it got moved to the Exec Committee. So it is game on again.
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#19 colt-45

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:19 AM

these reps are not understanding this bill for some reason. can it still be killed in the senate Todd?

#20 Tvandermyde

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:42 AM

these reps are not understanding this bill for some reason. can it still be killed in the senate Todd?


yes we can kill it on the floor or force enough grief that it will not move.but calls are helpful to your senators.

if amended, and it will be, it has to go back to the house. But if we are sucessful in getting amendments, then I will wager they will abuse it, or come back for more later
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#21 colt-45

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

ok Todd thanks for the update on this, i will be calling to day.

#22 colt-45

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

this is what my rep. John O Jones wrote to me on my facebook page today about this bill when i asked him to oppose this bill. he said that all the pro-gun voted for it and the anti's voted against it. what is going on? i bet this has to do with that rep taking that 7,000 bribe for that daycare.IMO

#23 Tvandermyde

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:16 PM

Thatwas the house which i addressed.

Watch committee wednesday but keep on calling. No matter how much bread you put on it, its still a **** sandwich
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.