79 replies to this topic

[Bud]

Gunslinger, on 30 March 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Contact info for the judge's office anyone? I'd like to make my voice heard, feel free to say if you think that is a bad idea

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

A horrendously bad idea.

Getting cited for contempt of Court by a Federal Judge is not my idea of a good time

[kurt555gs]

I was of course speaking figuratively in my previous post. I would not risk losing that expensive Kimber to some police officer that didn't know the law, or to my treading over some invisible line where this type of transporting a firearm  isn't legal. I need to go get a $150.00 Hi Point 9 for that Maxpedition Versapack Jumbo.

Edited by kurt555gs, 31 March 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[lockman]

Based on this judges reasoning on intermediate scrutiny, as long as the state asserts a compelling public interest the statutes shall stand. The state need not present any actual evidence, the state's mere claim of compelling public interest is enough to overcome an intermediate scrutiny challenge.

[drdoom]

Let's say this did turn out in our favor, does anyone think for a second that the state would suddenly allow carrying loaded guns with FOID cards? No, they would have appealed and we would still be forced to obey these BS UUW/AUUW laws. I hope this case does get heard by the 7th Circuit because at least we got a fighting chance of gutting the UUW/AUUW at the I have a brain level.

[TFC]

Very good questions.

[Tvandermyde]

here is the letter filed.

Attached Files

•  woolard_28J.pdf   1.08MB   120 downloads

[dmefford]

Tvandermyde, on 03 April 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

here is the letter filed

Great job... can't do more than that. You can lead the judge to the truth, but you can't make him believe it...!

Regards, Drd

[scough]

I don't profess to know anything about Howard, but I guess my question is, Shepard has been mentioned a number of times as being THE case the SCOTUS has been waiting for to make a landmark 2A decision. While there might be a handful of other cases that have been mentioned as well, surely this has a very sympathic Plaintiff, with a squeaky clean record, and the issue is pretty tightly defined.

So I wonder, why don't we have the best of the best in Gura handling this one? Again, I don't know beans about Howard, but Gura's reputation goes without saying. So, why would the NRA/ISRA allow such an important case be handled by anyone less than the best we have?  Unless I'm missing something, I sure hope Gura gets brought in for the appeal. Was the strategy knowing this would be appealed anyway, just let a lessor guy handle this until the appeal to avoid stretching Gura too thin?? Thoughts?

[Gray Peterson]

I've reported to the admins about my post but it still hadn't been deleted....

[Molly B.]

Gray Peterson, on 04 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I've reported to the admins about my post but it still hadn't been deleted....

The post you requested be deleted has been taken offline, as well as other posts responding to yours.

[Gray Peterson]

scough, on 04 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't profess to know anything about Howard, but I guess my question is, Shepard has been mentioned a number of times as being THE case the SCOTUS has been waiting for to make a landmark 2A decision. While there might be a handful of other cases that have been mentioned as well, surely this has a very sympathic Plaintiff, with a squeaky clean record, and the issue is pretty tightly defined.

SCOTUS refuses to take up any 2A litigation without Alan Gura's name on it as counsel.

Quote

So I wonder, why don't we have the best of the best in Gura handling this one? Again, I don't know beans about Howard, but Gura's reputation goes without saying. So, why would the NRA/ISRA allow such an important case be handled by anyone less than the best we have? Unless I'm missing something, I sure hope Gura gets brought in for the appeal. Was the strategy knowing this would be appealed anyway, just let a lessor guy handle this until the appeal to avoid stretching Gura too thin?? Thoughts?

Alan will never, ever take on a case with the NRA as the director of the litigation, as they seem to be in this case. This is borne out by his commentary at the GRNC conference. NRA ILA's litigation office repeatedly tried to poison the well with both the Parker/Heller case with Seegars & then with Congress. With McDonald, they rewarded the man who argued against us in Heller with a job arguing on behalf of the NRA ILA in McDonald. They claimed Alan did not competently brief due process after reaching an agreement with them about briefing division. They sucker punched him for the fourth time by asking that his argument time being divided, all so they can claim all the credit for the win on their magazines & paperwork. Alan made the P&I argument because 1) arguing the text & history of constitution is never incorrect and 2) Justice Thomas would never rule in favor of due process incorporation, As for why duplicative litigation was filed when only one was needed, you'll need to ask Mary Shepard & the ISRA why they made that choice, despite working together in Ezell & McDonald. I can tell you that it wasn't a matter of concern over Alan being spread too thin, as there was already one lawsuit on the ready in the central district.... FYI: I do not speak to the issue of Todd. As far as I'm concerned, he's a good guy here in Springfield & a stand up guy. I'm speaking of Waples Mill...

Edited by Gray Peterson, 04 April 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[scough]

Gray Peterson, on 04 April 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

scough, on 04 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't profess to know anything about Howard, but I guess my question is, Shepard has been mentioned a number of times as being THE case the SCOTUS has been waiting for to make a landmark 2A decision. While there might be a handful of other cases that have been mentioned as well, surely this has a very sympathic Plaintiff, with a squeaky clean record, and the issue is pretty tightly defined.

SCOTUS refuses to take up any 2A litigation without Alan Gura's name on it as counsel.

Quote

So I wonder, why don't we have the best of the best in Gura handling this one? Again, I don't know beans about Howard, but Gura's reputation goes without saying. So, why would the NRA/ISRA allow such an important case be handled by anyone less than the best we have? Unless I'm missing something, I sure hope Gura gets brought in for the appeal. Was the strategy knowing this would be appealed anyway, just let a lessor guy handle this until the appeal to avoid stretching Gura too thin?? Thoughts?

Alan will never, ever take on a case with the NRA as the director of the litigation, as they seem to be in this case. This is borne out by his commentary at the GRNC conference. NRA ILA's litigation office repeatedly tried to poison the well with both the Parker/Heller case with Seegars & then with Congress. With McDonald, they rewarded the man who argued against us in Heller with a job arguing on behalf of the NRA ILA in McDonald. They claimed Alan did not competently brief due process after reaching an agreement with them about briefing division. They sucker punched him for the fourth time by asking that his argument time being divided, all so they can claim all the credit for the win on their magazines & paperwork. Alan made the P&I argument because 1) arguing the text & history of constitution is never incorrect and 2) Justice Thomas would never rule in favor of due process incorporation, As for why duplicative litigation was filed when only one was needed, you'll need to ask Mary Shepard & the ISRA why they made that choice, despite working together in Ezell & McDonald. I can tell you that it wasn't a matter of concern over Alan being spread too thin, as there was already one lawsuit on the ready in the central district.... FYI: I do not speak to the issue of Todd. As far as I'm concerned, he's a good guy here in Springfield & a stand up guy. I'm speaking of Waples Mill...

Wow, it was kind of hard to follow that, but I had no idea there was any bad blood between Gura and the NRA? Seeing Gura is, well, Gura, you would think the NRA would have the courage to mend fences seeing we are narrowing our way to some pretty important precidence setting cases before the high court. I sure hope folks don't let past issues undermine these important cases.  Sounds like this whole mess needs it's own thread to sort out the facts as this is all news to me?  Can't wait for Todd to chime in....

[Molly B.]

Let's do try to keep this thread centered on Shepard v Madigan, please. People are following it closely and it
can be distracting/frustrating to check in and find bunches of other topics to wade through.

Thanks!

[Tvandermyde]

"As for why duplicative litigation was filed when only one was needed"

well i was working on this case for a while as molly will attest to. At about the time the decision to file was reached, SAF started sniffing around. there were calls back and forth and and one point there seemed to be an agreement reached. But then SAF filed Moore.

each side has their own ideas about how to handle the issue. So there will be two cases. Like McDonald, they may be consolidated by the Court, or they may not be.

As to Gura, I have my thoughts about him and his track record outside of the first two is mixed. He does a good job of boiling issues down to their simplest and arguing on small points.

I have heard from sources, that SCOTUS has had their fill of Mr. Gura and don't wish to see him again. So far all of his latest petitions have been turned away I believe. Which is another benefit for Shepard as it does not have his name attached to it.

But, Woolard could be the case that goes, given a positive ruling there would strike down subjective RTC may issue laws and knock out Illinois and DC at the same time.

Only time will tell. Right now, I'm just trying to get to 9:15 tommorow.

Edited by Tvandermyde, 04 April 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[dmefford]

I think it is important to attack on many fronts...

I think it is important to coordinate the attacks as much as we can...

I think it is important to constantly educate the public via Letters to Editors, and all other media...

I am finding Facebook to be a huge help locally in Pike...

As to Mary Shepard, I hope she can find a measure of justice for herself and I hope that translates to freedom for us all. I thank God that she agreed to work with, whoever, on this suit to use it to try to regain Liberty in Illinois...

Regards, Drd

Edited by dmefford, 04 April 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Gray Peterson]

dmefford, on 04 April 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

I think it is important to attack many fronts...

I think it is important to coordinate the attacks as much as we can...

I think it is important to constantly educate the public via Letters to Editors, and all other media...

I am finding Facebook to be a huge help locally in Pike...

As to Mary Shepard, I hope she can find a measure of justice for herself and I hope that translates to freedom us all. I thank God that she agreed to work with, whoever, on this suit to use it to try to regain Liberty in Illinois...

Regards, Drd

Agreed. I was directly answering someone elses question in re why Gura wasn't chosen to represent Shepard.  I didn't know the answer.

[Tvandermyde]

DM  -- I agree but the NAGR press release today is why we don;t need their help and they are a bunch of a$$clowns.

[Gray Peterson]

Tvandermyde, on 04 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

DM  -- I agree but the NAGR press release today is why we don;t need their help and they are a bunch of a$$clowns.

This I wholeheartedly agree with.

[dmefford]

Tvandermyde, on 04 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

DM -- I agree but the NAGR press release today is why we don;t need their help and they are a bunch of a$clowns.

If we are talking about the comments on Pike County in a press release I agree... Here is my response to Dudley Brown... I wrote him back at noon today...

My response to NAGR re their April 4, 2012 Press Release...

Dear Dudley,

My name is Dan Mefford, and I was the one who initiated the referendum with some huge assistance from other volunteers. We were able to pass this Constitutional Carry referendum by a whopping 85%. I appreciate the enthusiasm for the getting the word out but we need to make a correction to some of your information.

I have appreciated your organization and it is doing a great work as we spread the message of the true meaning and interpretation of the 2A across this great nation.

Our Sheriff is not the bad guy that it appears from his press release. Sheriff Petty signed our petition and we do not think of Paul as the enemy in any way shape or form. He has met with his officers and is prepared to help people understand that while there is this conflict between the state law, and now our County initiative, and the second Amendment, the People are at risk of being charged with, at the very least, a misdemeanor and possibly a felony.

The Illinois State Police (ISP) have made it clear that they are under direct orders from the state to arrest the People who violate state law until a court case changes things or the legislature. The problem is, if the sheriff allowed it, it would still put the People at risk from the ISP. So he is in a rock and a hard place here. Since he has been a great supporter of our referendum we feel that your article, while enthusiastic and heartfelt doesn't portray our sheriff in the correct light.

In my opinion all officers should act in accordance with the 2A and should look the other way, however that is just not going to happen. Therefore it is important the Sheriff make it clear what the consequences could be if something went really wrong… I would never say the Paul Petty is "spineless." He served his country honorably in the military and is a patriot. I feel that he is short on true in depth knowledge of the Constitution but he has treated me and our whole movement with the utmost respect and has shown that he is willing to learn, and I believe, fully supports the Constitution as he has been led to understand it.

I have seen Paul on his hands and knees working in the dirt with the rest of us (us? I shouldn't say us, I wasn't able to work on that project) to build a memorial to our men and women in the military. There is no job too dirty for Paul to jump in and do. He is the type of person who would never ask someone to do a job that he would not do. So while he had to take an official stance to keep the public from getting in some serious legal trouble I would never portray him as a tyrant.

Thanks for listening, and feel free to call me and visit about this at your convenience.




Dan A. Mefford, D.C.



Blog: Shall Not Be Infringed

Edited by dmefford, 04 April 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Federal Farmer]

In my experience, NAGR never lets a fund-raising opportunity go to waste.