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RTC at it pertains to your own property


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#1 tricky1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

Just had an unknown knock at my door about 15 minutes ago. I was sitting here at my computer and there was knock at the front door. We don't use the front door and all our friends know to come to the back door and none of them would knock this late. Anyway, I reply with a "Who is it?" as I slowly approached door. I couldn't really hear him so I moved closer and repeated myself while keeping the door locked and talking through the door. "It's ----- -----, I think I have the wrong house...I'll go try next door."

I didn't have time to grab anything before heading toward the door, so I walked away after this and got the closest one, the Wife's P-22 and added 5 rounds to the half loaded mag and placed it un-chambered on safe in my pocket. I walked back to the door and turned the porch light on and watched the guy walking around for a minute. I came back to the computer for a few minutes and decided to go check out the perimeter, and as I did so, I thought of, "okay I know I'm good to carry on my property, but how about the sidewalk?". Anyway, I step out the door and there is a guy in a van on a cellphone he sits there, mumbles something on the phone starts it up and drives away.

I walk around my corner lot, just making sure there was nothing messed with, but I tried to stay off the Sidewalk just in case....

I guess my biggest question about the concealing of a firearm on or around one's property is, where exactly does that end? At the sidewalk, or the street? We have our yard, then a sidewalk, followed by a strip of grass next to the street. I've heard many times that the sidewalk is the city's property and responsibility(unless it needs replaced, or the snow removed. :lol: ) So to me I would think that's where it ends.

I'm still playing it safe and checking the window every few minutes and still have the gun ready to go.

I have my C9 loaded with Hollow points, I just don't want to wake the wife over something unless it's big, as it's in the dresser by my side of the bed.(no kids.)

Edited by tricky1, 22 March 2012 - 09:59 PM.


#2 Federal Farmer

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:10 PM

The good news is that you are probably safe. That fits a straight burglary MO. They knock/ring the bell and if no one answers they figure no one is home and they go around back and break in. This type of criminal is looking to rob a house where no one is home. The problem we had was when our doorbell was broken. Even given that MO, there is no telling what they will do if they encounter someone in the home once they are in. Scary to be at the whim of criminal predators.

Thankfully the local crew gave up on their house when I made them one Friday morning. They tried that knock test and when I went to the door saw no one outside. We don't have many kids in our neighborhood so it was very unlikely to be kids pranking. I went outside and immediately a car sitting in front of my house pull away. I'm pretty sure they knew I saw them and their car because they have not tried our house since.

As for your question about RTC, technically it covers all of your property, if you live outside Chicago. However, you might be the subject of a man-with-a-gun call and in some jurisdictions you can be charged with disturbing the peace.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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#3 tricky1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:18 PM

I'm on the right(left) side of Northern Illinois. That's what I was thinking too for the MO.

The gun was covered by my t-shirt which is baggy and covers the tops of my pockets, and it's dark out, so they would have to look pretty closely to see it.

#4 papa

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:28 PM

This is the reason I keep my PF-9 in a belly band holster every waking min. while around the house. I never have to worry about if I can get to it if I need it.

I don't carry it concealed either.

#5 xmikex

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:31 PM

I would not have gone outside.

He knew you were home - had the "wrong house" and moved on.


heck - just yesterday I met up with a guy to buy some ammo FTF in the Chicago suburbs. I knocked on the wrong door (I know- I'm a rocket scientist... LOL :lol: ), realized my mistake and got back in my car and drove a few doors down to meet up with the guy at the right place. I don't think anyone came to the door but they might have seen me walk / drive away.
"I may disapprove of what arms you bear, but I will defend to the death your right to remain armed." -xmikex

#6 Sigma

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:41 PM

Dude stay in your house, while you are down by the corner lot someone could have slipped in the window with your wife. Next time call and report a suspicious person and try to get a description if not a license plate number. The moment you left your house you are no longer on defense.
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#7 Federal Farmer

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:48 PM

Dude stay in your house, while you are down by the corner lot someone could have slipped in the window with your wife. Next time call and report a suspicious person and try to get a description if not a license plate number. The moment you left your house you are no longer on defense.


My wife is armed and a better shot than me.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

--George Orwell

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#8 tricky1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:51 PM

To clarify, We live on a corner. I didn't leave the sight of the door and all the windows are a minimum of 6 feet from the ground.

I just wanted to be sure all was clear after a few minutes and I didn't go walking until the van pulled away.

As for calling the police, there have been 3 shootings in my area over the last few months(no one injured or killed) and they have not one single lead in any of them. I witnessed one as I got off home from work early in the am. A bunch of kids on the corner who looked up to no good, and they were because shortly after I walked in the house they pointed upward and fired about 4 rounds. Cops came and blocked of the intersection and searched but only found 9mm casings.

The other one is someone walking around randomly walking up to cars and flashing his gun then firing at the cars as the scared young adults locked the doors and took off. He only hit the cars but they still don't have any leads.

Shortly after is when I got my C9.

ETA:
Wife knows that the C9 is in the drawer and ready to go. She also knows how to use it.

Edited by tricky1, 22 March 2012 - 10:52 PM.


#9 bersa380

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

So would i be ok to conceal/open carry on my porch or lawn or just inside the house?

#10 Vaden

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:11 AM

I mowed the lawn quite a few times with an Oc'd PX4 last year. The new neighbor even took a pix or two from their 2nd floor window. I waited for the Hanover police to come out for a MWAG visit but it never happened. If i'm out after dark on my property or working in my garage at night, I always have a loaded weapon on me.
"A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right's existence is all the reason he needs."

#11 FF17

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:39 AM

Ok on your property, not on public sidewalks, roadways, alleys, and I beleive right of ways like unpaved alleys. Others here can quote where to find this info, I think it's in one of the stickys at the top of this forum.

#12 oneshot

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:46 AM

A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a)


http://www.isp.state...docs/ptfire.pdf

Edited by oneshot, 23 March 2012 - 12:48 AM.

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#13 oneshot

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:51 AM

I mowed the lawn quite a few times with an Oc'd PX4 last year. The new neighbor even took a pix or two from their 2nd floor window. I waited for the Hanover police to come out for a MWAG visit but it never happened. If i'm out after dark on my property or working in my garage at night, I always have a loaded weapon on me.


Way to go. The owner of a pawn shop here in town, the last FFL in a storefront within city limits, was stalked by a group of people to his home and they came upon him in his garage and beat the living daylights out of him and his wife. He had something like seventeen staples put in his scalp. He and his business partner wear Glock's on their hips now.

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698


#14 oneshot

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:06 AM

A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a)


http://www.isp.state...docs/ptfire.pdf


By the way, the state needs to learn how to use punctuation. It could be argued that this statute, as written, indicates that UUW takes place only when a firearm is carried in a vehicle; making open carry legal. It should read: "Carries, or possesses in any vehicle, or concealed on or about his person..."

I found the listing for the actual statute and it's written the same way.

http://www.ilga.gov/...000050K24-1.htm

Edited by oneshot, 23 March 2012 - 01:07 AM.

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698


#15 GarandFan

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 06:05 AM

You poor folks ... it's high time for concealed carry in Illinois!!!

I used to carry around the house (much of the time) when I lived in Illinois. I would carry also in the garage and yard (I lived in Cook but not Chicago). Now the "what if I am on the sidewalk" question is not an issue for me ... keep working toward concealed carry! You deserve not having to worry about such inane details!
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
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#16 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 06:49 AM

I live in a condo so OC or CC is a no no in the common areas. Whenever I am on my families property these days in WI though I usually Mexican carry my CZ75 in condition 2. We have had a lot of probelms with kids drinking in our woods and other unknown tresspassers. Cops at best take 30 mins because we are on the other side of a lake to the PD that has jurisdiction.

#17 Yas

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:13 AM

A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a)


http://www.isp.state...docs/ptfire.pdf

Heres another example of the ISP not being up to date on its published information. The PDF shows George Ryan as the Governor. Thats 2 convicted governors ago. B) How embarrassing.

They also need to start putting a published date on the pdf's, handouts, and flyers.

Edited by Yas, 23 March 2012 - 07:16 AM.


#18 GarandFan

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

I live in a condo so OC or CC is a no no in the common areas. Whenever I am on my families property these days in WI though I usually Mexican carry my CZ75 in condition 2. We have had a lot of probelms with kids drinking in our woods and other unknown tresspassers. Cops at best take 30 mins because we are on the other side of a lake to the PD that has jurisdiction.


I have a CZ75BD Police. I realize that once decocked, it takes a bit if pull pressure and trigger travel to drop the hammer ... that said, anytime there is around in the chamber, I have it holstered to where the trigger guard is protected. I'd mexican carry in condition 3 (empty chamber) ... although in my experience, guns often fall down or out while mexican carrying.

That's just me, though.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#19 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:47 AM

By Mexican carry I mean not a holster, usually in my back pocket with the trigger guard totally covered. I havny found a holster yet comfy enough to wear while doing tree removal, brush clearing etc. beeen trying to find a good shoulder or "leg" holster for a while now.

#20 Sigma

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:20 AM


I live in a condo so OC or CC is a no no in the common areas. Whenever I am on my families property these days in WI though I usually Mexican carry my CZ75 in condition 2. We have had a lot of probelms with kids drinking in our woods and other unknown tresspassers. Cops at best take 30 mins because we are on the other side of a lake to the PD that has jurisdiction.


I have a CZ75BD Police. I realize that once decocked, it takes a bit if pull pressure and trigger travel to drop the hammer ... that said, anytime there is around in the chamber, I have it holstered to where the trigger guard is protected. I'd mexican carry in condition 3 (empty chamber) ... although in my experience, guns often fall down or out while mexican carrying.

That's just me, though.



can we use the word decocked on this forum? B)
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#21 Robeman1957

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:12 AM


I mowed the lawn quite a few times with an Oc'd PX4 last year. The new neighbor even took a pix or two from their 2nd floor window. I waited for the Hanover police to come out for a MWAG visit but it never happened. If i'm out after dark on my property or working in my garage at night, I always have a loaded weapon on me.


Way to go. The owner of a pawn shop here in town, the last FFL in a storefront within city limits, was stalked by a group of people to his home and they came upon him in his garage and beat the living daylights out of him and his wife. He had something like seventeen staples put in his scalp. He and his business partner wear Glock's on their hips now.


I am the partner. While I always carry a 45acp in the store it isn't always a Glock. That said the problem is that being law abiding citizens we are forced to unload and case any firearms when we leave the property. Some of the local law enforcement "suggested" that we might want to carry everywhere. I personally do not see that as an option since there is too much to lose if stopped by the wrong person. But when the option is legal I will carry.

Next time you are in the store please introduce yourself. Look forward to talking.

#22 pyre400

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

can we use the word decocked on this forum? B)


Not in Bobbitt terms..

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#23 es503IL

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:20 AM



I mowed the lawn quite a few times with an Oc'd PX4 last year. The new neighbor even took a pix or two from their 2nd floor window. I waited for the Hanover police to come out for a MWAG visit but it never happened. If i'm out after dark on my property or working in my garage at night, I always have a loaded weapon on me.


Way to go. The owner of a pawn shop here in town, the last FFL in a storefront within city limits, was stalked by a group of people to his home and they came upon him in his garage and beat the living daylights out of him and his wife. He had something like seventeen staples put in his scalp. He and his business partner wear Glock's on their hips now.


I am the partner. While I always carry a 45acp in the store it isn't always a Glock. That said the problem is that being law abiding citizens we are forced to unload and case any firearms when we leave the property. Some of the local law enforcement "suggested" that we might want to carry everywhere. I personally do not see that as an option since there is too much to lose if stopped by the wrong person. But when the option is legal I will carry.

Next time you are in the store please introduce yourself. Look forward to talking.


I remember this attack being in the news from back when I lived in Champaign... Sounded pretty brutal (and occurred in St. Joe of all places, back when I was in high school - admittedly not that long ago compared to some people, St. Joe was a good place to pickup farm girls), hopefully the Rigdon's are doing better.

http://www.news-gaze...on-robbery.html

Edited by es503IL, 23 March 2012 - 11:23 AM.


#24 Jason4567

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

I'm new to figuring out all these laws. Everyone mentions outside of Chicago, but what would be legal in Chicago?

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#25 abolt243

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:31 PM

I'm new to figuring out all these laws. Everyone mentions outside of Chicago, but what would be legal in Chicago?


With a CFP, in your home only. Not your porch, yard, garage, and heaven forbid you even get close to the sidewalk!! If you take the gun past your door, it must be unloaded, cased, and broken down in a non-operating condition (I'm working from memory here, I'll stand corrected if a Chicago guy/gal wants to correct me!). Without a CFP (Chicago Firearm Permit) you cannot possess a gun within the city limits,,,,,,period..

Special ain't it??

T
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#26 moparcardave

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

Walking on the sidewalk is not your property in some cities. In Rockford the property line is about a foot back from the sidewalk. I lived on a corner lot there and when mowing was like I am legal now I am illegal now depending where I was moving, but no one asked if I had a weapon.
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#27 Mr. Fife

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

[quote name='abolt243' date='23 March 2012 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1332534660' post='318727']
If you take the gun past your door, it must be unloaded, cased, and broken down in a non-operating condition (I'm working from memory here, I'll stand corrected if a Chicago guy/gal wants to correct me!). [/quote]

It appears that the gun does not have to be broken down if you are not transporting in the city for longer than 24 hours.

For example, you live in Chicago, work in Gurnee, and will be driving to Wisconsin after work. If you pack your unloaded, cased, but otherwise not broken down gun into your trunk, and while driving to work in the morning get pulled over by CPD, you haven't broken the law. Just leave the city every 24 hrs :thinking:

Chicago Rules and Regulations state:


[quote]
"Lawful transportation" means the transportation of a firearm by a person:
(1) in compliance with section 8-20-090; or
(2) who has a valid FOID card, a CFP and firearm registration certificate, if applicable, and the firearm is: ( i ) broken down in a nonfunctioning state; (ii) not immediately accessible; and (iii) unloaded and in a firearm case.
[/quote]


8-20-090 Interstate transportation of firearms.

It shall not be a violation of this chapter if a person transporting a firearm or ammunition while engaged in interstate travel is in compliance with 18 U.S.C.A. 926A. There shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person within the city for more than 24 hours is not engaged in interstate travel, and is subject to the provisions of this chapter.



18 USC 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
[/quote]

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#28 Bud

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:58 PM


can we use the word decocked on this forum? Posted Image


Not in Bobbitt terms..


Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

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#29 Getzapped

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

I'm new to figuring out all these laws. Everyone mentions outside of Chicago, but what would be legal in Chicago?



I'm pretty sure you can still arm yourself with a spork! I don't think that is a banned weapon yet!

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#30 junglebob

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:30 PM


I'm new to figuring out all these laws. Everyone mentions outside of Chicago, but what would be legal in Chicago?



I'm pretty sure you can still arm yourself with a spork! I don't think that is a banned weapon yet!


Are you talking about a metal or plastic spork?
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)