Keeping a 22 cal. AR15 in Cook/Chicago?

[JohnG168]

Hi All,

 

I was told that the AR ban for Cook county and Chicago does not cover rifles that are 22.caliber.

 

Is this accurate/true? Would love to pick up an MP15 in 22. Cal if it is.....

 

Thanks!

[RandyP]

As far as I know, the protruding pistol grip, semi-auto and ability to accept a detachable magazine make them a banned assault weapon - the ordinance does not specify or exclude and caliber = see Page 5 of the attached:

 

https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/About%20CPD/Firearm%20Registration/handgun-registration-20B-with-offender-registry.pdf

[Talonap]

As I understand it, the .22 exemption only applies to the 10 round limit and only if the rifle has a tubular magazine. Otherwise, no AR types of any kind in Cook County. Here is the Ordinance:

 

06-O-50

ORDINANCE

Sponsored by

THE HONORABLE LARRY SUFFREDIN, COUNTY COMMISSIONER

Co-Sponsored by

THE HONORABLE JOHN P. DALEY AND JOAN PATRICIA MURPHY

COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

AMENDMENT TO THE

COOK COUNTY DEADLY WEAPONS DEALER CONTROL ORDINANCE

WHEREAS, the Federal assault weapons ban, of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of

1994, as amended, 18 USC Sec. 921 et seq. expired on September 13, 2004; and

WHEREAS, the County Board desires to (1) amend Ordinance 93-O-37, as amended by Ordinance 93-

O-46 and Ordinance 99-O-27, Article I, Section 1-2 by striking and deleting language in section 1-2; and

(2) amend Ordinance 93-O-37, as amended by Ordinance 93-O-46 and Ordinance 99-O-27, Article VI, by

deleting and adding language as stricken through and underlined below.

NOW, THEREFORE, PURSUANT TO THE HOME RULE AUTHORITY OF THE COOK

COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS, AS VESTED IN IT BY THE ILLINOIS

CONSTITUTION OF 1970, HEREBY AMEND PORTIONS OF THE ORDINANCE, AS

FOLLOWS:

ARTICLE I. GENERAL PROVISIONS

Section 1-2 Applicability.

(a) This article shall control the licensing of all firearms dealers within Cook County

except in home rule municipalities which have a separate municipal ordinance specifically

regulating the licensing of firearms dealers.

( Pursuant to Article VII, Section 6© of the 1970 Constitution of the State of Illinois, if

this article conflicts with an ordinance of a home rule municipality, the municipal

ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.

ARTICLE VI. ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN

Section 6-1 Definitions.

As used in Article VI of this Ordinance, the following terms shall have the following meaning:

(a) Assault weapon means:

(1) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a large capacity magazine

detachable or otherwise and one or more of the following:

(A) Only a pistol grip without a stock attached;

( Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the

non-trigger hand;

© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

(D) A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the

barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or

(E) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator;

(2) A semiautomatic pistol or any semi-automatic rifle that has a fixed magazine, that has the

capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

(3) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one

or more of the following:

(A) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the

non-trigger hand;

( A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

© A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the

barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel;

(D) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator; or

(E) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the

pistol grip.

(4) A semiautomatic shotgun that has one or more of the following:

(A) Only a pistol grip without a stock attached;

( Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the

non-trigger hand;

© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

(D) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; or

(E) An ability to accept a detachable magazine;

(5) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

(6) Conversion kit, part or combination of parts, from which an assault weapon can be

assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(7) Shall include, but not be limited to, the assault weapons models identified as follows:

(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM

91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

(ii) AR-10;

(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

(iv) AR70;

(v) Calico Liberty;

(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

(xi) Saiga;

(xii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

(xiii) SKS with detachable magazine;

(xiv) SLG 95;

(xv) SLR 95 or 96;

(xvi) Steyr AUG;

(xvii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

(xviii) Tavor;

(xix) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

(xx) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

( The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) Calico M-110;

(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

(v) Uzi.

© The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) Armscor 30 BG;

(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

(iii) Striker 12; or

(iv) Streetsweeper.

( Assault weapon does not include any firearm that has been made permanently inoperable, or

satisfies the definition of antique firearm, stated in this Ordinance, or weapons designed for Olympic

target shooting events.

© Detachable magazine means any ammunition feeding device, the function of which is to deliver one

or more ammunition cartridges into the firing chamber, which can be removed from the firearm without

the use of any tool, including a bullet or ammunition cartridge.

(d) Large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more

than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include the following:

(1) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more

than 10 rounds.

(2) A 22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

(3) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

(e) Muzzle brake means a device attached to the muzzle of a weapon that utilizes escaping gas to

reduce recoil.

(f) Muzzle compensator means a device attached to the muzzle of a weapon that utilizes escaping gas

to control muzzle movement.

Section 6-2 Assault weapons and large capacity magazines - Sale prohibited - Exceptions.

(a) No person shall manufacture, sell, offer or display for sale, give, lend, transfer ownership of,

acquire or possess any assault weapon or large capacity magazine. This subsection shall not apply to:

(1) the sale or transfer to, or possession by any officer, agent, or employee of Cook

County or any other municipality or state or of the United States, members of the armed

forces of the United States; or the organized militia of this or any other state; or peace

officers to the extent that any such person named in this subsection is otherwise

authorized to acquire or possess an assault weapon and/or large capacity magazine and

does so while acting within the scope of his or her duties;

(2) transportation of assault weapons or large capacity magazine if such weapons are

broken down and in a non-functioning state and are not immediately accessible to any

person.

( Any assault weapon or large capacity magazine possessed, sold or transferred in violation of

subsection (a) of this section is hereby declared to be contraband and shall be seized and disposed of in

accordance with the provisions of Section 6-2 of this Ordinance.

© Any person found in violation of this section shall be sentenced to not more than six months

imprisonment or fined not less than $500.00 and not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(d) Any person who, prior to the effective date of the ordinance codified in this Ordinance, was

legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine prohibited by this section shall have

90 days from the effective date of the ordinance to do any of the following without being subject to

prosecution hereunder:

(1) To remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from within the limits

of the County of Cook; or

(2) To modify the assault weapon or large capacity magazine either to render it

permanently inoperable or to permanently make it a device no longer defined as an

assault weapon or large capacity magazine; or

(3) To surrender the assault weapon or large capacity magazine to the Sheriff or his

designee for disposal as provided below.

Section 6-3 Destruction of weapons confiscated.

Whenever any firearm or large capacity magazine is surrendered or confiscated pursuant to the

terms of this Ordinance, the Sheriff shall ascertain whether such firearm is needed as evidence in any

matter.

If such firearm or large capacity magazine is not required for evidence it shall be destroyed at the

direction of the Sheriff. A record of the date and method of destruction an inventory or the firearm or

large capacity magazine so destroyed shall be maintained.

Approved and adopted this 14th day of November 2006.

[JohnG168]

Thanks Guys. I knew it seemed strange when I first heard it. I was actually at at Midwest Guns in Lyons this Saturday and they only sell AR's in 22 cal due to the ban, I.e. the few larger caliber AR's they have are only for Law Enforcement. One of the guys working there said they cannot sell any large caliber AR's to the public due to the county ban.....

[SFC Stu]

Thanks Guys. I knew it seemed strange when I first heard it. I was actually at at Midwest Guns in Lyons this Saturday and they only sell AR's in 22 cal due to the ban, I.e. the few larger caliber AR's they have are only for Law Enforcement. One of the guys working there said they cannot sell any large caliber AR's to the public due to the county ban.....

I wonder how many people were stupid enough to turn in their so called assault weapon to the Sheriff? Does anyone know?

[Uncle Harley]

my question is how can you do up to 6 mos jail time for a CITY ORDANANCE VIOLATION! ????

[Sigma]

My question is how many people has ever been charged under this ordinance

[oneshot]

Whenever I hear someone say something about gun regulations that I think sounds the least bit fishy, I do not give them the benefit of the doubt, I look it up. I've heard too many people, even FFL's, who don't have any clue what they're talking about and I've had people who I've sold guns to via gunbroker who've tried to get me to break the law because it's inconvenient for them for me to do otherwise, in other words, there are people who will say whatever they think is right, or think should be right, rather than what they know is right. My mantra is, they're not doing the time or paying the fine, I am. There's an FFL in town here who's told me that long guns can't be shipped by private individuals, I printed out the regs and showed them to him and he still didn't want to do the transfer and I wasn't going to tell the seller he had to pay for an FFL to ship when he wasn't required to. The same FFL here had a MAC 10 in his display case that had a collapsible stock crudely installed after market, making it an SBR. I informed him of this and he replied that it didn't count because the stock is collapsible. Lots of bozos out there.

[Vaden]

I dont know how many people have been found out or charged but this really sucks. I really want to buy a .22 for my son, something along the lines of the .22 Sig 522 or the MP5 looking one, so we would have something nice for the Aurora Zombie Shoot but they are illegal on my block, yet legal 1 block away. I've been told I should rent a locker at a range and keep it there but who the heck wants to do that? It costs almost as much as the gun itself. I've been looking at building him up a Ruger 10/22 but the stock I want for it is..illegal. I had a chance to acquire a Galil replica at a great price, one of my favorite modern sporting rifles and thats illegal too. Sure, the cops would probably never bust down my front door but when something like that can strip me of my rights to ever own ANY gun, why risk it?

[willxjcherokee]

The day we get RTC we need to pursue premption

[Uncle Harley]

I dont know how many people have been found out or charged but this really sucks. I really want to buy a .22 for my son, something along the lines of the .22 Sig 522 or the MP5 looking one, so we would have something nice for the Aurora Zombie Shoot but they are illegal on my block, yet legal 1 block away. I've been told I should rent a locker at a range and keep it there but who the heck wants to do that? It costs almost as much as the gun itself. I've been looking at building him up a Ruger 10/22 but the stock I want for it is..illegal. I had a chance to acquire a Galil replica at a great price, one of my favorite modern sporting rifles and thats illegal too. Sure, the cops would probably never bust down my front door but when something like that can strip me of my rights to ever own ANY gun, why risk it?

 

 

Again, I AM NOT A LAWYER but I do not see how a CITY ORDINANCE violation can strip you of your rights?

[Talonap]

I dont know how many people have been found out or charged but this really sucks. I really want to buy a .22 for my son, something along the lines of the .22 Sig 522 or the MP5 looking one, so we would have something nice for the Aurora Zombie Shoot but they are illegal on my block, yet legal 1 block away. I've been told I should rent a locker at a range and keep it there but who the heck wants to do that? It costs almost as much as the gun itself. I've been looking at building him up a Ruger 10/22 but the stock I want for it is..illegal. I had a chance to acquire a Galil replica at a great price, one of my favorite modern sporting rifles and thats illegal too. Sure, the cops would probably never bust down my front door but when something like that can strip me of my rights to ever own ANY gun, why risk it?

 

 

Again, I AM NOT A LAWYER but I do not see how a CITY ORDINANCE violation can strip you of your rights?

 

It's actually a County Ordinance. And if they do find you have it and decide to prosecute, I'm thinking it would be difficult to keep an FOID after being prosecuted for a firearms violation - even if it is stupid. Anyone else have another take on this?

[Vaden]

I dont know how many people have been found out or charged but this really sucks. I really want to buy a .22 for my son, something along the lines of the .22 Sig 522 or the MP5 looking one, so we would have something nice for the Aurora Zombie Shoot but they are illegal on my block, yet legal 1 block away. I've been told I should rent a locker at a range and keep it there but who the heck wants to do that? It costs almost as much as the gun itself. I've been looking at building him up a Ruger 10/22 but the stock I want for it is..illegal. I had a chance to acquire a Galil replica at a great price, one of my favorite modern sporting rifles and thats illegal too. Sure, the cops would probably never bust down my front door but when something like that can strip me of my rights to ever own ANY gun, why risk it?

 

 

Again, I AM NOT A LAWYER but I do not see how a CITY ORDINANCE violation can strip you of your rights?

 

It's actually a County Ordinance. And if they do find you have it and decide to prosecute, I'm thinking it would be difficult to keep an FOID after being prosecuted for a firearms violation - even if it is stupid. Anyone else have another take on this?

 

Correct, the Blair-Holt is a county wide ordinance, and 35 miles away from the city of Chicago, I am suffering the effects of this BS that they pushed.

[kurt555gs]

Cook county is Home Rule and prohibits modern sporting rifles like the AR-15. The village of Lemont is in 3 counties. If to live in the part of Lemont that is Cook county, you are hosed.

 

* Carthago delenda est *

[JR1987]

Pursuant to Article VII, Section 6© of the 1970 Constitution of the State of Illinois, if

this article conflicts with an ordinance of a home rule municipality, the municipal

ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.

 

Certain cities do not follow the ban. Such as my own. Essentially if one trigger pull fires off more than one 2 rounds it is illegal in my hometown. Anything else is legal.

 

The ban only applies to cities in which the municipality has not already made a law.

 

As far as Midwest Guns only selling AR's in .22 cal... WHAT?! I've seen plenty of 5.56/.223 AR's there. Granted I haven't been there in 5 months or so.

 

But the Cook County ban only applies to cities which do not make their own rule.

[Tvandermyde]

I dont know how many people have been found out or charged but this really sucks. I really want to buy a .22 for my son, something along the lines of the .22 Sig 522 or the MP5 looking one, so we would have something nice for the Aurora Zombie Shoot but they are illegal on my block, yet legal 1 block away. I've been told I should rent a locker at a range and keep it there but who the heck wants to do that? It costs almost as much as the gun itself. I've been looking at building him up a Ruger 10/22 but the stock I want for it is..illegal. I had a chance to acquire a Galil replica at a great price, one of my favorite modern sporting rifles and thats illegal too. Sure, the cops would probably never bust down my front door but when something like that can strip me of my rights to ever own ANY gun, why risk it?

 

 

Again, I AM NOT A LAWYER but I do not see how a CITY ORDINANCE violation can strip you of your rights?

 

It's actually a County Ordinance. And if they do find you have it and decide to prosecute, I'm thinking it would be difficult to keep an FOID after being prosecuted for a firearms violation - even if it is stupid. Anyone else have another take on this?

 

 

Violation of a County Ordinance does not revoke or impair a FOID. I can show you people who have misdomenaor UUWs who still have a FOID card. just becuase is is a weapons offense, does not mean it's a prohibition on the RKBA.

[Vaden]

Violation of a County Ordinance does not revoke or impair a FOID. I can show you people who have misdomenaor UUWs who still have a FOID card. just becuase is is a weapons offense, does not mean it's a prohibition on the RKBA.

 

OK, so for us non lawyer types, if I were to theoretically acquire an AR15, and it was found by the police, I could get 6 months in jail and a minimum $500 fine for possession of a banned weapon but not have my FOID revoked or other firearms (if I had any) seized? I looked into Hanover Park ordinances before but dont recall anything firearm related.

[Uncle Harley]

That city ( or county ) ordinance is no different than nor should have any more retribution than the one you violate when you don't pick up your dog's **** off the sidewalk! We need to find someone that has been fined that much or been put away for 6 mos and make them a Plaintiff!

[Vaden]

That city ( or county ) ordinance is no different than nor should have any more retribution than the one you violate when you don't pick up your dog's **** off the sidewalk! We need to find someone that has been fined that much or been put away for 6 mos and make them a Plaintiff!

 

Well, I know when I walk my greyhound and my mutt, I will not do so without a huge pocket full of plastic grocery bags which makes for an unpleasant walk back to the house. Getting fined is much more unpleasant though. heck I paid $120 last year for not taking my garbage can in from the curb by the specified time!

[Uncle Harley]

That city ( or county ) ordinance is no different than nor should have any more retribution than the one you violate when you don't pick up your dog's **** off the sidewalk! We need to find someone that has been fined that much or been put away for 6 mos and make them a Plaintiff!

 

Well, I know when I walk my greyhound and my mutt, I will not do so without a huge pocket full of plastic grocery bags which makes for an unpleasant walk back to the house. Getting fined is much more unpleasant though. heck I paid $120 last year for not taking my garbage can in from the curb by the specified time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you friggin serious?! How do you live like that?. Go south about 4 hrs and YOU can poo in your yard and leave it, not that you would want to LOL! ........ and if your trashcan is still by the road the next time around who cares? I know alot of people that just leave them there!

 

 

IL has some stupid laws, but it's God's country down here compared to up there.

[JR1987]

Just for your own info these are cities with home rule: http://www.iml.org/page.cfm?key=2

 

Note: you must research your own cities laws to determine if you are "exempt" from Cook's law. It took me quiet a while to find my own cities. It was hidden right under my nose.

[JohnG168]

Pursuant to Article VII, Section 6© of the 1970 Constitution of the State of Illinois, if

this article conflicts with an ordinance of a home rule municipality, the municipal

ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.[/

 

As far as Midwest Guns only selling AR's in .22 cal... WHAT?! I've seen plenty of 5.56/.223 AR's there. Granted I haven't been there in 5 months or so.

 

But the Cook County ban only applies to cities which do not make their own rule.

 

 

Yes, they do have some larger caliber AR's in the store, but they are Law Enforcement only. They will sell you a MIni-14 or KEL Tec RFB, but no AR-15 platform that is larger than 22. Caliber unless you have a badge

[JR1987]

Pursuant to Article VII, Section 6© of the 1970 Constitution of the State of Illinois, if

this article conflicts with an ordinance of a home rule municipality, the municipal

ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.[/

 

As far as Midwest Guns only selling AR's in .22 cal... WHAT?! I've seen plenty of 5.56/.223 AR's there. Granted I haven't been there in 5 months or so.

 

But the Cook County ban only applies to cities which do not make their own rule.

 

 

Yes, they do have some larger caliber AR's in the store, but they are Law Enforcement only. They will sell you a MIni-14 or KEL Tec RFB, but no AR-15 platform that is larger than 22. Caliber unless you have a badge

 

Could be because Lyons isn't home rule. They aren't on the list on that website I came up with. My home town is however. Strange.

 

Though, even still, that makes no sense. .22 cal doesn't change it.

[mstrat]

The shop in Lyons is considerably more expensive than.... well, everywhere else.

 

Add to that their lack of motivation to assist customers, and I'd say you're not missing much.

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[JR1987]

The shop in Lyons is considerably more expensive than.... well, everywhere else.

 

Add to that their lack of motivation to assist customers, and I'd say you're not missing much.

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

I must agree here, though I've felt that way at MANY shops in IL. I don't know if its because the IL gun culture is so marginalized, or if they are just jerks; but I've had very few good experiences at IL shops. Though there is a guy about my age (20-30 something) at Maxons in Des Plaines who is pretty cool and helpful.

 

I've purchased one rifle at Midwest, a 91/30 Mosin Nagant because it was priced right and was in good condition. It was fairly competitive with others (after FFL fees and such). However on their other weapons their prices are pretty bad, sometimes 100 dollars more. I've also had a hard time getting help while I was there.

 

I wont shoot at the range again. I don't care for the man behind the desk downstairs. After returning a rental to him he yelled at me for laying the pistol on its side barrel facing away from the two of us. I wasn't about to grab a 1911 barrel, action opened, after 400 rounds of ammo had passed through it. "grab the barrel and return it to me!" No. The barrel is safely pointed away from people and the action is open. Come off it.

[oneshot]

That city ( or county ) ordinance is no different than nor should have any more retribution than the one you violate when you don't pick up your dog's **** off the sidewalk! We need to find someone that has been fined that much or been put away for 6 mos and make them a Plaintiff!

 

Well, I know when I walk my greyhound and my mutt, I will not do so without a huge pocket full of plastic grocery bags which makes for an unpleasant walk back to the house. Getting fined is much more unpleasant though. heck I paid $120 last year for not taking my garbage can in from the curb by the specified time!

 

 

 

 

Home of the free.

[chip]

Just for your own info these are cities with home rule: http://www.iml.org/page.cfm?key=2

 

Note: you must research your own cities laws to determine if you are "exempt" from Cook's law. It took me quiet a while to find my own cities. It was hidden right under my nose.

 

Note to anyone reviewing the list of cities with home rule. Just because your city is on the list DOES NOT mean that they have an ordinance the preempts the Crook County AWB.

However, from a previous post (and I would still research it) it appears that a forum member was able to register an AR in Chicago because it had a fixed magazine from the manufacturer.

A fixed magazine is one that can not be removed without tools. Ergo, a California style bullet button (which requires a bullet or other tool to be inserted to remove the magazine) should be in compliance, as long as the magazine fitted has a capacity of 10 rounds or less. I'm not a lawyer, and this should be taken as my layman's opinion and not as legal advice.

[Sigma]

But here is what i dont understand, if a town has home rule then lists there firearm ordinances, and doesnt include a ban on scary guns, doesnt that mean they choose not to regulate it?

[Jason4567]

I was wondering exactly what Chip and Sigma are. Since Chicago is home rule, and it's "AWB" doesn't exactly match Cook County's ban, do you not have to worry about the county? Joey's AR doesn't seem to conform to Cook but he got it through Chicago.

[JR1987]

Just for your own info these are cities with home rule: http://www.iml.org/page.cfm?key=2

 

Note: you must research your own cities laws to determine if you are "exempt" from Cook's law. It took me quiet a while to find my own cities. It was hidden right under my nose.

 

Note to anyone reviewing the list of cities with home rule. Just because your city is on the list DOES NOT mean that they have an ordinance the preempts the Crook County AWB.

However, from a previous post (and I would still research it) it appears that a forum member was able to register an AR in Chicago because it had a fixed magazine from the manufacturer.

A fixed magazine is one that can not be removed without tools. Ergo, a California style bullet button (which requires a bullet or other tool to be inserted to remove the magazine) should be in compliance, as long as the magazine fitted has a capacity of 10 rounds or less. I'm not a lawyer, and this should be taken as my layman's opinion and not as legal advice.

 

Exactly. That's why I said "research your cities laws". The ban is only preempted if your municipality makes a law on firearms. Mine does. Just because your city is home rule does not mean they have a rule on firearms.

 

Sigma, the way I see it, as a non fancy man lawyer, is simple: Cook County rules you... unless your city makes a rule. Then you follow that rule.