14 replies to this topic

[JR1987]

A friend and I are building AR15's.

I am building an M16A4 clone, plane and simple for now. I am torn between optics, AIMPOINT PRO or COMP 2, or the Trijicon ACOG TA31F. Of course, at first I will simply have iron sights until I get money. I am not looking for you to tell me which one to get here, but if you've used one or both and what you thought of the two. I plan on buying used if I go the ACOG route.

The real important question is this. My friend's rifle will definitely be the fancier of the two. He wants a rifle scope on his, a typical hunting rifle scope. I have NO experience with hunting scopes. I do know however you can't go too cheap because recoil will through off the zero on larger calibers. I was thinking Nikkon: something like this: http://www.nikonhunt...oint_Blank/8485

I'd like to keep him within the 200-350 dollar price range. Recommendations on mounts are welcome too.

Thank you.

[milq]

I really like Redfield scopes for that kind of money. Can't speak to Nikon as I've never used them. Leupold owns Redfield and they have the same warranty and the glass on all the ones that I have used has been very clear and sharp.

There are so many mounts it's hard to choose one.

[JR1987]

I'm not so much concerned over the "best" mount. Just one that will make sure to hold the scope properly. I will look into redfield for him. He was looking at 22 scopes and I burst his bubble by telling him it won't work properly, or for long. Recoil would be too much. Thanks for the recommendation.

Edited by JR1987, 16 March 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[phattony]

I have a SWFA Super Sniper on my AR. Great for long range,
unbeatable for the money and quality. Highly comparible to the Leupold Mark IV and 1/4 the price.
http://swfa.com/SWFA...scope-P499.aspx

[Stavros31]

I like Nikon 223 for AR..  Cheap and has very good reviews. I was think the same thing for a while.

Edited by Stavros31, 16 March 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[sleepercaprice1]

The Nikon M223 series are nice scopes and you'd probably be happy with one. A often overlooked bargain is the Weaver V3 scope. It's a 1x-3x with very clear sharp optics and a low price tag. I've used several of them for 3 gun competition and general AR shooting. For a mount, I use YHM 5" or 7" cantilever mounts (depending on scope eye relief) on a flat-top upper with pretty much any low to medium rings. Weaver rings are very good quality and low priced.

As far as red-dot type scopes, I've only owned EOTech's. They can't be beat for speed and close range accuracy is plenty good, but I find them lacking when you get out much more than 100 yards and need more then combat accuracy. Someone with better eyesight than I have will probably disagree.

[whosawmike]

What are you looking to use your AR for (Plinking, hunting, self defense…)?

When I was building my AR, I built it around its primary use. I chose self defense, then chose an aimpoint for that reason. My thought was that, in a self defense situation, I would not need any type of zoom. I figure that in a self defense situation, it is going to be close and dirty. In close quarters, a zoom, in my opinion, would be a hindrance.

I have an aimpoint comp ML3 and I LOVE IT. I shoot with both eyes open, and even though there is no zoom, I can easily hit a torso sized target up to and past 100 yards. They may not be the groups you get out of a 7 power scope, but again, its self defense.

If you do go with the aimpoint, I would suggest a comp ML2 over the M2. The only difference between the M and the ML is that the M has night vision capability. I know I will probably never use NV. The MLs are ~ $50 cheaper too.

Another option is a “flip to side” 3 or 4 power zoom behind an aimpoint. Best of both worlds!

Just my 2 cents.


Here is a picture of mine. I have done a few modifications sense this.

[8x57]

Actually, most cheaper ($50-$100) scopes will hold zero on something like an AR just fine.  An AR, assuming it's a .223/5.56, is a very light recoiling rifle.  Even if it's a 6.5, 6.8, or .300BLK, it's not going to have much kick.  I have a $125 Simmon's 6-18x50 on my 8mm Mauser.  My reloads for that rifle is a 175 Gr. Jacketed soft point at about 2650 FPS and it holds zero just fine.  That is a lot more recoil than you'll ever see with your AR.  The only reason the .22 rimfire scopes won't work is because the eye relief is probably too short and if it's got a ranging system of some sort, the calibration will be all wrong for centerfire.  I bet they'd hold zero just fine though.

My advice is figure out what power and type of reticle he wants.  9X is good enough to see where your .22" diameter bullet holes are at 100 yards.  The most popular power on a .223/5.56 is probably 3x-9x or 4x-12x.  You basically have 2 options with the reticle, a duplex (your basic cross hairs), or mil-dot.  I prefer mil-dot as it gives you a means to zero at one distance (say 100 yards) and then compensate at other differences.

All that spending more will get you is more light transmission and better clarity.  I have a $180 Nikon 4-12x40 and the $125 6-18x50 and both are very clear and bright and hold zero excellently.  I've looked through plenty of $600 Leupolds and had a hard time telling the difference.  Perhaps the difference would be more pronounced in the extreme climates of Alaska....

Anyways, there are lots of great scopes in the $80-$200 range.  You definitely don't need to spend more than that to get a very serviceable product.

[I Hate Gunlaws]

In the military, I used an Aimpoint Comp 2, later a Comp 4, then towards the end an Eotech 516. Never used the Trijicon... didn't like the idea of zoom for close quarters, plus I could hit consistently at distance with the red dots. The Aimpoints were tough- take a lot of abuse and hold zero. Outstanding battery life, and performed the job well. That being said, after using the Eotech, I had a hard time using anything else. The biggest difference being sight picture. The Aimpoints cannot compare... at least to my eyes. Of course the battery life of an Eotech is a fraction of an Aimpoint (600 hrs vs. 40,000?), seemed to be less ruggedly built, and some people simply don't like the look of an Eotech.  

Currently, I have an Eotech EXPS 3-2, and a Comp 2. Every so often I'll switch them between an AR and an XM17 and re-zero each (just an excuse to go shooting). I still find myself favoring the Eotech- when using the Aimpoint I get the feeling of tunnel vision, even with both eyes open. It's still a great red dot, though.

Either way you go, those are some good optics to mount on your AR. As for your friend's scope- I wouldn't worry too much about losing zero due to recoil, as the AR platform generally has very little. That is, of course, depending on caliber. If you stick with 5.56/.223, or even some larger rounds, he should have no worries.

[Gooch]

Hey JR,

     A few years ago I bought an NC Star scope at the gun show and have been pleased with it. I forget which model it is but it was less than a hundred bucks and it holds zero just fine. The SRT series are made for 223 / 5.56 and have a bullet drop compensator calibrated for the .223 cartridge with a 55 grain bullet. Some of these also have and external laser.

    NC Star SRT Series

Gooch

[Tvandermyde]

The question is important as it will lead to the best answer:

What optic do you want on the scope -- for what purpose?

Note optic and not scope they ae different. Optics include scopes, but Aimpoints and Eotechs are not scopes.

So to answer the question you need to ask two more:

What are you going to use the gun for? and how much is in your budget?

If price is not matter, look at an ACOG. I like them, but have not broken with the bennys in my wallet for one.

On optics, I tend to prefer eotechs. I have 5 of them and like them all on my guns.

I had an Aimpoint, but after trying the Eotech, I like the Eos better. They may be a bit larger, but I like them better.

As for scopes, ou can spend $3500 on a Leopold. But i don't see why. I have a couple of IOR Valdatas that I like. I have Leopold MK4s on some other guns, but think the IOR do just as well or maubey better. But my scoped guns I usually plan on using for longer distances. But the Spartan 2x12 is a nice scope of their's and I plan on using it on a couple more guns.

I have one fo their 1x4s on another 16" ar and it works well.

I also have a Leopold CQT on one of my CQB guns and like it. I would like to try one of their HMMR sigtes as it is the next generation.

I'm off to ASC for their practical rifle this morning...gotta go pick out some guns from the safe as I hear we maybe shooting 200 yds today.

later

[frankw438]

Todd has some great advice and a lot of experience to draw upon. Deciding on a non-magnified optic versus a scope can be difficult. I am not usually the type of guy to recommend this, but I say "BUY BOTH."

I spent some time on ARFCOM (ar15.com) and sipped their koolaid. I read about designing a rifle around a purpose and learned about Close Quarters Battle (CQB) rifles, Designated Marksman Rifles (DM) for intermediate range, and sniper rifles.

While mine are still a work in progress, I have two go-to rifles. For optics on my CQB rifle, I went with an EOTech 512 with a Rock River Arms Dominator 2 sight mount. I love my EOTech 512, but I would trade it on for an XPS series in a heartbeat just for the size and weight difference. I tried an Aimpoin Comp ML2, but I prefer the EOTech hands down.

For an intermediate range (Designated Marksman) rifle, I was really limited by my budget. I would has loved to get an ACOG, or Leupold, or one of dozens of higher end scopes. I settled on a Millet DMS-1 1-4X 25mm scope. It has an illuminated reticle, nice clear glass and its built like a tank. Its also as heavy as a tank! It's probably one of the best values in that price range (~$200-$250). I use a Rock River Arms High-Rise Cantilever Mount for the Millet. That mount is also a great value. It places the scope at the right height and moves it forward enough to get proper eye relief. With the right ammo, I can shoot 1" and smaller groups all day long at 100 yards.

I just helped a buddy mount a Trijicon Accupoint scope in a Larue Tactical scope mount. I am extremely jealous of that setup, but its outside my budget. At least I know my buddy will let me shoot it from time to time.

Good luck!


-- Frank

Edited by frankw438, 17 March 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[JR1987]

My friend's AR will simply be built as a rifle he wants to shoot for fun. He is looking for zoom, no questions asked. Essentially if he can make out the target at 100 yards and see where he is hitting enough to smile; he will be happy. That's why I was looking at the Nikkon's at first. Simple, not very expensive, and they seem to be well liked among AR shooters.

I really like the AIMPOINT over EOTECH right now, but have never used or looked at (physically) either. I could easily go either way when I get my hands on one up close and personal. I am in by no means in a rush to find one.

However, I also like some zoom, and 4x would be nice. I've never used a Trijicon to shoot, but have seen and looked down one at a show. I liked what it offered, a lot.

Either way I am looking at a high price tag (even Trijicon used if I can find one). Save up for the most expensive and see what happens. If I buy an AIMPOINT I have money left over. If I buy ACOG I got a nice scope. I am building this for a few reasons: 1)fun. 2). Cheaper to shoot than my M1 Garand. 3). as stupid as it may sound SHTF rifle. With that in mind it will probably be seeing A LOT of time at the range... and a lot less time hitting the fan.

I wont be buying optics yet, so I will show him some options and see what he goes with. Then when we go to test fire them I will see how I like his scope and determine if I want a scope or non zoom optics.

I am just gathering options for him to look at, and then I will let him decide what is best for him. As for me, I have plenty of time. I appreciate you guys giving me your experience with AIMPOINT and EOTECH. It seems every topic I read elsewhere became a flame war.

[whosawmike]

I chose aimpoint over eotech only because I prefer the 2 MOA dot over the dot and ring. I also like lens covers. In my opinion, you cant go wrong with either. Eotech and aimpoint are both battle proven.

Like i said before though. You may want to consider a "flip to side" magnifier. With the push of a button, you go from x3 or 4x magnification, to no zoom at all. And it would still be roughly the same price point as an acog.

[XJCraver]

For your buddy, another brand you might have him look at is Vortex.  Their scopes are very, very good for the money, and their warranty is second-to-none.  Ive been well pleased with the Vortex scopes I have.

As for the red dots, sorry, I cant help.  Ive shot with an ACOG, and it was nice, but Id never drop that kinda coin for a sight system.  If its closer than 100 yds my irons do fine, and any further than that I want a scope.  If I was headed to combat, or shot competitions regularly I might see that differently, but for a guy who realistically only ever shoots paper and/or steel at a range, theres no need for a high dollar optic.  IMO, of course.

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