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HB5167 HB5831


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#1 Holtzd56

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:05 PM

I receceived informatiion that the house commettee passed HB5167 and HB5831 today. One deals with the $65 per gun registration fee and the other a 2% tax on sales of ammo. It is nothing more than Chicago telling the remainder of the state what to do. We all need to really get busy and let our reps know how we feel. Write/call your represenitve, join/support Illinois State Rifle Association or simular organization. Just complaining on forums and not doing anything isn't going to help. More laws are not the answer. Remember that Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the US and is one of the three highest crime rates in the Us.
" Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." Walter Mondale, Former Vice President and U.S. Ambassador to Japan

#2 mauserme

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:48 PM

If you poke around the forum you'll see there are many members who do more than complain.

For example, Todd's Legislative Update thread and abolt's Call to Action thread recently addressed the issues you raise. And the General Assembly Update thread included quite a few members who took the time to moniter the progressive of those bills, and others, as they make their way through the process.

Besides the legislative activy, MollyB and others have been busy with IGOLD and local town hall meetings, not to mention the several members who were/are plaintiffs in the various court cases.

You will find many capable people here at the forefront of the fight for our 2A rights. Enjoy.

Edited by mauserme, 29 February 2012 - 05:05 PM.

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#3 Holtzd56

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

There are many who do act, but there are those who like to complain but do nothing. We need EVERYBOBY take legal action. There are always some in every crowd ....
" Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." Walter Mondale, Former Vice President and U.S. Ambassador to Japan

#4 tricky1

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:45 PM

I think the best comments of the day were about the witness slips being "as big as the springfield phonebook" then followed by "as big as the springfield and chatam phonebook together." We are out there making an impact.

#5 3ddiver

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:09 PM

I think the best comments of the day were about the witness slips being "as big as the springfield phonebook" then followed by "as big as the springfield and chatam phonebook together." We are out there making an impact.

The only problem is if they commented that there were that many, and yes I filled mine out, they arent listening if they pass this crap anyway.

#6 ilphil

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:16 PM


I think the best comments of the day were about the witness slips being "as big as the springfield phonebook" then followed by "as big as the springfield and chatam phonebook together." We are out there making an impact.

The only problem is if they commented that there were that many, and yes I filled mine out, they arent listening if they pass this crap anyway.


The only way any of those slips would have impacted the vote today would have been if Mike Madigan's name had been on it.
He appoints the DEM members to the committee and they vote exactly how he wants them to.

#7 firepiper

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

I think the best comments of the day were about the witness slips being "as big as the springfield phonebook" then followed by "as big as the springfield and chatam phonebook together." We are out there making an impact.



What are these slips everyone is mentioning and how do we get them and then get them to who needs them?

#8 milq

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

What are these slips everyone is mentioning and how do we get them and then get them to who needs them?


Here's the thread with instructions on the slips. Call to Action
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#9 Drylok

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:21 PM


What are these slips everyone is mentioning and how do we get them and then get them to who needs them?


Here's the thread with instructions on the slips. Call to Action


But I think it's too late now. Atleast for the bills mentioned in that thread.
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#10 belercous

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:31 PM

Not sure how this will pass the Senate. Both my state Rep. & Senator are against it. Chicago has the House, but downstate has the Senate. Still good to be apprised.

#11 Buzzard

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:09 AM

The only way any of those slips would have impacted the vote today would have been if Mike Madigan's name had been on it.
He appoints the DEM members to the committee and they vote exactly how he wants them to.

I agree with what you said, but we still must do what we must to stop it. That's the only way we can say what you just said.
These bills were assigned to the Executive Committee. There's seven Democrats and Four Republican on that Committee.

Here's the vote (in red) on HB5167 - the Ammo Tax bill:

2/29/2012HouseDo Pass / Short Debate Executive Committee; 007-004-000


Here's the vote on 5831 - The Handgun Registration Bill:

2/29/2012HouseDo Pass / Short Debate Executive Committee; 007-004-000

So the Dems - once again - passed out of committee the bills that Madigan and Chicago wanted. Despite the fact that we buried them in witness slips in Opposition. Some of us probably saw this going in. But PEOPLE, DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED. These bills may have passed out of committee - but they've not passed the House and the Senate!!

STAY STRONG and STAY THE COURSE!!
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
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they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#12 Steve O

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

These bills need to be handed a crushing defeat and Rahm needs to face some serious ridicule and scorn along with the legislators that support them :angry:

They need to be voted out ultimately, this state is DOOMED for lots of other reasons and I just can't understand how anyone could vote to continue this insanity...

My representative Mrs MCasey will not return my emails, I will be calling tomorrow, we need to flood the anti's offices with everything we have in opposition :tinfoilhat:

Id go there in person, it's not far from here but Im afraid Id get too mad :)
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#13 duckies

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:16 AM

I can't believe it did pass. I hope it doesn't pass in the senate. The idea of paying extra tax on ammunition so that it can fund a trauma center for the city and to pay a registration fee to own a firearm doesn't sit well with me. I mean come on, it's not like gang members buy their ammo or firearms from a legitimate business, they mostly prefer the sales of such items out of the trunk of a car anyway; do these people realize that those who already illegally possess firearms are not going to register their firearms? Nor will they pay the tax they are imposing? Instead these people make the law abiding people pay for the sins of others.It's disheartening.

Then there are the people who are against RTC or guns in general; always screaming that the streets will run red. Do they not see that the streets are already red? That it is red not from the hands of law abiding citizens but from the hands of those who tread outside the law; they seek to protect the innocent, but instead they're protecting the guilty.

At the end of the day, it seems that those who follow the laws are the ones that pay, while the ones who disobey it seem to reap the benefits.

This just my personal opinions.

/rant

Edited by duckies, 01 March 2012 - 04:18 AM.

Fortis fortuna juvat


#14 chicago guy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:12 AM

Just remember, these two bills did not pass in the house, they were just reported favorably by the committee, which means they still have to have a floor vote in the house, I believe. Keep fighting! Call your rep!

#15 Lou

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:33 AM


The only way any of those slips would have impacted the vote today would have been if Mike Madigan's name had been on it.
He appoints the DEM members to the committee and they vote exactly how he wants them to.

I agree with what you said, but we still must do what we must to stop it. That's the only way we can say what you just said.
These bills were assigned to the Executive Committee. There's seven Democrats and Four Republican on that Committee.

Here's the vote (in red) on HB5167 - the Ammo Tax bill:

2/29/2012HouseDo Pass / Short Debate Executive Committee; 007-004-000


Here's the vote on 5831 - The Handgun Registration Bill:

2/29/2012HouseDo Pass / Short Debate Executive Committee; 007-004-000

So the Dems - once again - passed out of committee the bills that Madigan and Chicago wanted. Despite the fact that we buried them in witness slips in Opposition. Some of us probably saw this going in. But PEOPLE, DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED. These bills may have passed out of committee - but they've not passed the House and the Senate!!

STAY STRONG and STAY THE COURSE!!



Both passed with a 7-4 vote. Looking at the committee makeup there are 7 Democrats and 4 Republicans. Of the 7 Democrats 5 are from Chicago proper, one is from Blue Island which touches Chicago and the 7th is from East St Louis.

I guess we can say that the Emperor of Madiganistan stacked the deck.

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A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#16 duckies

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:19 AM

Kind of off topic but not really, but my brother had drafted a letter to his rep expressing his concern and before sending it he wanted an opinion on it.

[Your Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
March 2, 2012
[Recipient Name]
[Title]
[Company Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
Dear [Recipient Name]:

I am writing to express my concern about HB5167 and HB5831.
I urge you to vote NO on these pending bills, as I firmly believe that these two resolutions are subjecting law abiding gun owners to be victimized by subjecting them to taxation and fees of which will serve no benefit to them; especially if they reside outside a “high crime area.” It does not seem fair that the citizens who live outside these so called “high crime areas” be penalized for following the law when acquiring firearms or ammunition. I must also note that these bills do not effect those who already illegally posses firearms or ammunition, nor will they be subjected to it; please do not allow the people who follow the rules become a payment for the discrepancies of those who operate outside the law.

I also have noted that you voted NO previously on HB148, I urge you to allow this bill to pass by voting YES when the time comes. Denying your law abiding constituents the right to carry to defend themselves is subjecting them to becoming potential helpless victims. I am only asking that you help secure my right as well as others rights to defend ourselves outside our homes, and help us from becoming defenseless victims.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]

I'm fairly new to writing the reps and senators so I told him I'd ask you guys and gals for your opinions. Is there anymore that should be added or said?

Fortis fortuna juvat


#17 abolt243

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

Kind of off topic but not really, but my brother had drafted a letter to his rep expressing his concern and before sending it he wanted an opinion on it.

[Your Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
March 2, 2012
[Recipient Name]
[Title]
[Company Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
Dear [Recipient Name]:

I am writing to express my concern about HB5167 and HB5831.
I urge you to vote NO on these pending bills, as I firmly believe that these two resolutions are subjecting law abiding gun owners to be victimized by subjecting them to taxation and fees of which will serve no benefit to them; especially if they reside outside a "high crime area." It does not seem fair that the citizens who live outside these so called "high crime areas" be penalized for following the law when acquiring firearms or ammunition. I must also note that these bills do not effect those who already illegally posses firearms or ammunition, nor will they be subjected to it; please do not allow the people who follow the rules become a payment for the discrepancies of those who operate outside the law.

I also have noted that you voted NO previously on HB148, I urge you to allow this bill to pass by voting YES when the time comes. Denying your law abiding constituents the right to carry to defend themselves is subjecting them to becoming potential helpless victims. I am only asking that you help secure my right as well as others rights to defend ourselves outside our homes, and help us from becoming defenseless victims.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]

I'm fairly new to writing the reps and senators so I told him I'd ask you guys and gals for your opinions. Is there anymore that should be added or said?



Good letter, remember when dealing with legislators, shorter is better regarding letters, faxes, emails and calls. Most of the time, all communications are dealt with by staff. They read or listen long enough to get the drift of the communication, then compile the "score" to pass along to the boss. I'm sure that some legislators read much of the stuff they get, but again, make it short and to the point. Be sure to include your contact info in case they want to contact you for clarification on some point.

To clarify, yes, these bills are just out of committee and still need to go through the process of three readings on the floor of the House, debate and voting if the sponsor feels they have the votes to pass. If you listened to the committee debate on line, you'll remember that they asked for leave for a "partisan roll call" ( I think that was the term). That means that without actually calling for individual votes, they marked the Dems as yes and the Rep as no. They were pressed for time and did it to save time.

This was not unexpected. Just like progun bills are expected to pass out of the Ag committee where mose of them go. We did kill one bill in Senate committee yesterday, the "gangs with guns" bill, I don't rememeber the number.

Tim
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#18 Xwing

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

Kind of off topic but not really, but my brother had drafted a letter to his rep expressing his concern and before sending it he wanted an opinion on it.

...

I'm fairly new to writing the reps and senators so I told him I'd ask you guys and gals for your opinions. Is there anymore that should be added or said?

Looks good to me. States the topics, your opinions, and "why".

Both passed with a 7-4 vote. Looking at the committee makeup there are 7 Democrats and 4 Republicans. Of the 7 Democrats 5 are from Chicago proper, one is from Blue Island which touches Chicago and the 7th is from East St Louis.


I was looking for that. Kinda the expected result, but I was hoping that our bombardment of witness slips might have made a little difference. But no surprise: they do whatever Madigan wants, and ignore the citizens of the state.
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#19 boomersand

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:56 AM

Will Davis in Dist 30 is my rep. I've been emailing him since Friday everyday, sometimes twice asking for his support on HB148. Not surprised but I haven't received one return email or phone call.

#20 Cec

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:17 AM

Kind of off topic but not really, but my brother had drafted a letter to his rep expressing his concern and before sending it he wanted an opinion on it.

[Your Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
March 2, 2012
[Recipient Name]
[Title]
[Company Name]
[Street Address]
[City, ST ZIP Code]
Dear [Recipient Name]:

I am writing to express my concern about HB5167 and HB5831.
I urge you to vote NO on these pending bills, as I firmly believe that these two resolutions are subjecting law abiding gun owners to be victimized by subjecting them to taxation and fees of which will serve no benefit to them; especially if they reside outside a “high crime area.” It does not seem fair that the citizens who live outside these so called “high crime areas” be penalized for following the law when acquiring firearms or ammunition. I must also note that these bills do not effect those who already illegally posses firearms or ammunition, nor will they be subjected to it; please do not allow the people who follow the rules become a payment for the discrepancies of those who operate outside the law.

I also have noted that you voted NO previously on HB148, I urge you to allow this bill to pass by voting YES when the time comes. Denying your law abiding constituents the right to carry to defend themselves is subjecting them to becoming potential helpless victims. I am only asking that you help secure my right as well as others rights to defend ourselves outside our homes, and help us from becoming defenseless victims.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]

I'm fairly new to writing the reps and senators so I told him I'd ask you guys and gals for your opinions. Is there anymore that should be added or said?



Great letter. Short and to the point. Hope you don't mind that I copied it and posted it on our Facebook page for others to use. Let me know if that is a problem.

Thanks

Cec

#21 duckies

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:30 AM

[quote name='Cec' date='01 March 2012 - 09:17 AM' timestamp='1330615056' post='313715']

[/quote]


Great letter. Short and to the point. Hope you don't mind that I copied it and posted it on our Facebook page for others to use. Let me know if that is a problem.

Thanks

Cec
[/quote]

No problem at all. I might draft some more with him to circulate.

Fortis fortuna juvat


#22 milq

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:17 AM

It might be worthwhile to point out to the legislators that a tax on ammunition will simply increase ammo sales in IN, WI, KY and MO... resulting in lost revenue for IL businesses.
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#23 Davey

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

It might be worthwhile to point out to the legislators that a tax on ammunition will simply increase ammo sales in IN, WI, KY and MO... resulting in lost revenue for IL businesses.


I doubt these jokers care that honest gun shop business owners would take a hit in sales.

#24 Lou

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

My Letter:

Thursday, March 01, 2012


Dear Representative XXX,

I am writing to express my opposition to HB 5831 and HB 5167.

When debating these bills I would ask you to consider two questions:

1) Will criminals follow these new laws? Of course not. In the Supreme Court decision, Haynes v. United States, criminals do not have to register their illegal firearms because it would violate their 5th Amendment rights against self incrimination.
2) How will taxing and further restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens reduce violent crime?

When is it ever constitutional to force a law abiding citizen to pay a tax to exercise a basic constitutionally guaranteed right?


Please oppose these two bills.

Lou


People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#25 C0untZer0

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

Another thing that can be done is contacting the members on the executive committee.

I called them earlier this week to express my opinion about all four bills, but I'll call next week to tell all of them (Even Eddie Acevedo) that I oppose the remaining two still up for consideration.

I might write them tonight too... their assistants should get the e-mail by the 6th :tongue:
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#26 duckies

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

Sent my rep and senator a letter, emailed my rep and trying to locate an email for my senator. I wonder if they will get back to me..

Edited by duckies, 02 March 2012 - 12:19 PM.

Fortis fortuna juvat


#27 boomersand

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:37 PM

I just looked up and I don't think anyone is running against Will Davis in my district. I can't run against him because I just moved from Mpls a year ago. Someone HAS to be running against him?!?

#28 lockman

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

Sorry, I am late to the party. This one was the only related bill in my second block to watch and I totally forgot about it. Good thing we are quite redundant around here.
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