33 replies to this topic

[GarandFan]

I've been anticipating that some senator (Thune, perhaps) will offer an amendment for national concealed carry reciprocity to a big, "must-pass" bill.  I am just sort of wondering aloud if this could be the one.  White House has said it won't veto the measure ...


http://www.cnn.com/2...bill/index.html

[willxjcherokee]

No this is the National Defense Bill, aka national security. The controversy is the new bill allows the military to arrest any citizens without due process, and right to a trial. And all they need is an excuse that the person is a "security risk"

[abolt243]

willxjcherokee, on 14 December 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:

No this is the National Defense Bill, aka national security. The controversy is the new bill allows the military to arrest any citizens without due process, and right to a trial. And all they need is an excuse that the person is a "security risk"

Correct, and it's expected to pass, Obama won't veto it.  So, it's a perfect vehicle to tie national reciprocity to.  Will be interesting to watch.

AB

[pyre400]

According to Rand Paul, and Stewart Rhodes, this NDAA bill is very bad news. I've not had the time to read through it all myself, but they bring up some interesting arguments.

http://oathkeepers.o...merican-people/

[url="]

[howie]

Seven days worth of food?  Watertight ammo storage?  Who comes up with this stuff?  I can't understand how people who think they're so smart, could really be so very, very stupid.

[willxjcherokee]

abolt243, on 14 December 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

willxjcherokee, on 14 December 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:

No this is the National Defense Bill, aka national security. The controversy is the new bill allows the military to arrest any citizens without due process, and right to a trial. And all they need is an excuse that the person is a "security risk"

Correct, and it's expected to pass, Obama won't veto it.  So, it's a perfect vehicle to tie national reciprocity to.  Will be interesting to watch.

AB

How is the military being allowed to arrest citizens a good thing...
Oh look abolt is a terrorist, tomorrow the national guard come to get you.
Its like the communist list....

[202s]

This bill is so bad I wouldn't take it in exchange for national RTC. It takes walking on our rights to an entire new level.

[SFC Stu]

pyre400, on 14 December 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

According to Rand Paul, and Stewart Rhodes, this NDAA bill is very bad news. I've not had the time to read through it all myself, but they bring up some interesting arguments.

http://oathkeepers.o...merican-people/

[url="]

Senator Rand Paul has a brain. I wonder what the other Congresscritters problem is?

[willxjcherokee]

I think this will bring back the idea of communist name calling.
"Hey Joe just got promoted to senior consultant"
Mark -"Oh really, I was suppose to get that job..."
Mark -"Hey didn't you hear Joe is a terrorist? He collects guns and ammo"
"No hes a good man"
Mark- "I'm going to go call the authorities"

> Joe goes to detention camp for rest of his life.

[Lou]

GarandFan, on 14 December 2011 - 07:10 PM, said:

I've been anticipating that some senator (Thune, perhaps) will offer an amendment for national concealed carry reciprocity to a big, "must-pass" bill.  I am just sort of wondering aloud if this could be the one.  White House has said it won't veto the measure ...


http://www.cnn.com/2...bill/index.html

That is just the type of bill he tried to attach it to 2 years ago.  It failed by 2 votes but I think they are there in the Senate now.

[gravyboy77]

This is bad news:
http://www.guardian....detention-obama

[Uncle Harley]

howie, on 14 December 2011 - 09:13 PM, said:

Seven days worth of food?  Watertight ammo storage?  Who comes up with this stuff?  I can't understand how people who think they're so smart, could really be so very, very stupid.

where did you read/ hear this?   If it was the video I missed it.....

[gravyboy77]

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

howie, on 14 December 2011 - 09:13 PM, said:

Seven days worth of food? Watertight ammo storage? Who comes up with this stuff? I can't understand how people who think they're so smart, could really be so very, very stupid.

where did you read/ hear this? If it was the video I missed it.....

Read the link i posted:
http://www.guardian....detention-obama

Quote

Paul was backed by Senator Dianne Feinstein.

"Congress is essentially authorising the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens, without charge," she said. "We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge."

Paul said there were already strong laws against support for terrorist groups. He noted that the definition of a terrorism suspect under existing legislation was so broad that millions of Americans could fall within it.

"There are laws on the books now that characterise who might be a terrorist: someone missing fingers on their hands is a suspect according to the department of justice. Someone who has guns, someone who has ammunition that is weatherproofed, someone who has more than seven days of food in their house can be considered a potential terrorist," Paul said. "If you are suspected because of these activities, do you want the government to have the ability to send you to Guantánamo Bay for indefinite detention?"

Under the legislation suspects can be held without trial "until the end of hostilities". They will have the right to appear once a year before a committee that will decide if the detention will continue.

[mstrat]

The Federal government has NO AUTHORITY to pass a bill like this.

You can tie an amendment to this bill that overturns every gun law on the books, and I will not support it.

[mstrat]

By the way... Although I disagree with nearly everything Durbin does, he's coming down on the right side of this one. He (or his staff) wrote, in part:

" We must not allow the depravity of our enemies to cause us to abandon our nation’s most fundamental values. Indefinite detention without recourse to legal proceedings is inconsistent with the principles of liberty and the rule of law that underpin our democracy.

Recognizing this, the Senate agreed on a compromise amendment, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, that clarifies the language on detainees, excluding United States citizens, lawful resident aliens, and anyone captured or arrested in the United Sates. "
...
"The Senate and House are currently reconciling the differences between the two versions of the NDAA."

(emphasis added).

[stm]

mstrat, on 15 December 2011 - 08:06 AM, said:

The Federal government has NO AUTHORITY to pass a bill like this.

You can tie an amendment to this bill that overturns every gun law on the books, and I will not support it.

Congress has authority to pass any bill it wants. Whether or not it is constitutional is another question for our friends in black robes.

I agree, though. I wouldn't want RTC reciprocity attached to this bill, purely on the principle of the matter. No matter how much we want it, I for one am not willing to sacrifice one freedom for another.

[TriumphRider]

Looks like the Traitor-In-Chief is going to gladly sign it.  Sayy "Bye-Bye" to your freedom.  You are considered a Potential Terrorist just for being on this Forum.....

http://www.infowars....to-obamas-desk/

[colt-45]

so i guess when this pass than all gun owners will have to give up there guns in order not to named a terrorist. is there any one doing any thing about this? are we stuck in the dark about this bill. whats the plain here......i can just see Russa and Germany getting ready and waiting for the words, the us is now defenseless.

[pyre400]

Even Mtv gets it!

[boog]

Maybe this is why Department of Homeland Security has been checkung out my web site.
If you have a web site you can go here to setup an account to see where and sometimes who is looking at you
http://statcounter.c...702ah587u4q0oc3
Boog

[colt-45]

house has approved this bill so now the senate has to and if they don't than it's dead right? or has the senate already passed it to?

[TriumphRider]

It passed Both the Senate and the House.  Here are the voting results.....


Republicans Voting 'Aye'
Name Voted
Rep. Sandy Adams [R, FL-24] Aye
Rep. Robert Aderholt [R, AL-4] Aye
Rep. Todd Akin [R, MO-2] Aye
Rep. Rodney Alexander [R, LA-5] Aye
Rep. Mark Amodei [R, NV-2] Aye
Rep. Steve Austria [R, OH-7] Aye
Rep. Spencer Bachus [R, AL-6] Aye
Rep. Lou Barletta [R, PA-11] Aye
Rep. Roscoe Bartlett [R, MD-6] Aye
Rep. Joe Barton [R, TX-6] Aye
Rep. Charles Bass [R, NH-2] Aye
Rep. Dan Benishek [R, MI-1] Aye
Rep. Rick Berg [R, ND-0] Aye
Rep. Judy Biggert [R, IL-13] Aye
Rep. Brian Bilbray [R, CA-50] Aye
Rep. Gus Bilirakis [R, FL-9] Aye
Rep. Rob Bishop [R, UT-1] Aye
Rep. Diane Black [R, TN-6] Aye
Rep. Marsha Blackburn [R, TN-7] Aye
Rep. Jo Bonner [R, AL-1] Aye
Rep. Mary Bono Mack [R, CA-45] Aye
Rep. Charles Boustany [R, LA-7] Aye
Rep. Kevin Brady [R, TX-8] Aye
Rep. Mo Brooks [R, AL-5] Aye
Rep. Paul Broun [R, GA-10] Aye
Rep. Vern Buchanan [R, FL-13] Aye
Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle [R, NY-25] Aye
Rep. Ken Calvert [R, CA-44] Aye
Rep. David Camp [R, MI-4] Aye
Rep. Francisco Canseco [R, TX-23] Aye
Rep. Eric Cantor [R, VA-7] Aye
Rep. Shelley Capito [R, WV-2] Aye
Rep. John Carter [R, TX-31] Aye
Rep. Bill Cassidy [R, LA-6] Aye
Rep. Steven Chabot [R, OH-1] Aye
Rep. Tom Cole [R, OK-4] Aye
Rep. Michael Conaway [R, TX-11] Aye
Rep. Chip Cravaack [R, MN-8] Aye
Rep. Rick Crawford [R, AR-1] Aye
Rep. Ander Crenshaw [R, FL-4] Aye
Rep. John Culberson [R, TX-7] Aye
Rep. Geoff Davis [R, KY-4] Aye
Rep. Jeff Denham [R, CA-19] Aye
Rep. Charles Dent [R, PA-15] Aye
Rep. Bob Dold [R, IL-10] Aye
Rep. David Dreier [R, CA-26] Aye
Rep. Sean Duffy [R, WI-7] Aye
Rep. Renee Ellmers [R, NC-2] Aye
Rep. Jo Ann Emerson [R, MO-8] Aye
Rep. Blake Farenthold [R, TX-27] Aye
Rep. Stephen Fincher [R, TN-8] Aye
Rep. Michael Fitzpatrick [R, PA-8] Aye
Rep. Chuck Fleischmann [R, TN-3] Aye
Rep. John Fleming [R, LA-4] Aye
Rep. Bill Flores [R, TX-17] Aye
Rep. Jeffrey Fortenberry [R, NE-1] Aye
Rep. Virginia Foxx [R, NC-5] Aye
Rep. Trent Franks [R, AZ-2] Aye
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen [R, NJ-11] Aye
Rep. Elton Gallegly [R, CA-24] Aye
Rep. Cory Gardner [R, CO-4] Aye
Rep. Jim Gerlach [R, PA-6] Aye
Rep. Bob Gibbs [R, OH-18] Aye
Rep. Chris Gibson [R, NY-20] Aye
Rep. John Gingrey [R, GA-11] Aye
Rep. Louis Gohmert [R, TX-1] Aye
Rep. Kay Granger [R, TX-12] Aye
Rep. Samuel Graves [R, MO-6] Aye
Rep. Tim Griffin [R, AR-2] Aye
Rep. Michael Grimm [R, NY-13] Aye
Rep. Frank Guinta [R, NH-1] Aye
Rep. Brett Guthrie [R, KY-2] Aye
Rep. Ralph Hall [R, TX-4] Aye
Rep. Richard Hanna [R, NY-24] Aye
Rep. Gregg Harper [R, MS-3] Aye
Rep. Vicky Hartzler [R, MO-4] Aye
Rep. Doc Hastings [R, WA-4] Aye
Rep. Nan Hayworth [R, NY-19] Aye
Rep. Joe Heck [R, NV-3] Aye
Rep. Jeb Hensarling [R, TX-5] Aye
Rep. Walter Herger [R, CA-2] Aye
Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler [R, WA-3] Aye
Rep. Randy Hultgren [R, IL-14] Aye
Rep. Duncan Hunter [R, CA-52] Aye
Rep. Darrell Issa [R, CA-49] Aye
Rep. Lynn Jenkins [R, KS-2] Aye
Rep. Samuel Johnson [R, TX-3] Aye
Rep. Bill Johnson [R, OH-6] Aye
Rep. Jim Jordan [R, OH-4] Aye
Rep. Mike Kelly [R, PA-3] Aye
Rep. Steve King [R, IA-5] Aye
Rep. Peter King [R, NY-3] Aye
Rep. Jack Kingston [R, GA-1] Aye
Rep. Adam Kinzinger [R, IL-11] Aye
Rep. John Kline [R, MN-2] Aye
Rep. Doug Lamborn [R, CO-5] Aye
Rep. Leonard Lance [R, NJ-7] Aye
Rep. Jeff Landry [R, LA-3] Aye
Rep. James Lankford [R, OK-5] Aye
Rep. Thomas Latham [R, IA-4] Aye
Rep. Robert Latta [R, OH-5] Aye
Rep. Jerry Lewis [R, CA-41] Aye
Rep. Frank LoBiondo [R, NJ-2] Aye
Rep. Billy Long [R, MO-7] Aye
Rep. Frank Lucas [R, OK-3] Aye
Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer [R, MO-9] Aye
Rep. Daniel Lungren [R, CA-3] Aye
Rep. Donald Manzullo [R, IL-16] Aye
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R, TX-24] Aye
Rep. Thomas Marino [R, PA-10] Aye
Rep. Kevin McCarthy [R, CA-22] Aye
Rep. Michael McCaul [R, TX-10] Aye
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R, MI-11] Aye
Rep. Patrick McHenry [R, NC-10] Aye
Rep. Howard McKeon [R, CA-25] Aye
Rep. David McKinley [R, WV-1] Aye
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R, WA-5] Aye
Rep. Patrick Meehan [R, PA-7] Aye
Rep. John Mica [R, FL-7] Aye
Rep. Candice Miller [R, MI-10] Aye
Rep. Gary Miller [R, CA-42] Aye
Rep. Jeff Miller [R, FL-1] Aye
Rep. Tim Murphy [R, PA-18] Aye
Rep. Randy Neugebauer [R, TX-19] Aye
Rep. Kristi Noem [R, SD-0] Aye
Rep. Richard Nugent [R, FL-5] Aye
Rep. Devin Nunes [R, CA-21] Aye
Rep. Alan Nunnelee [R, MS-1] Aye
Rep. Pete Olson [R, TX-22] Aye
Rep. Steven Palazzo [R, MS-4] Aye
Rep. Erik Paulsen [R, MN-3] Aye
Rep. Steven Pearce [R, NM-2] Aye
Rep. Thomas Petri [R, WI-6] Aye
Rep. Todd Platts [R, PA-19] Aye
Rep. Ted Poe [R, TX-2] Aye
Rep. Mike Pompeo [R, KS-4] Aye
Rep. Tom Price [R, GA-6] Aye
Rep. Ben Quayle [R, AZ-3] Aye
Rep. Tom Reed [R, NY-29] Aye
Rep. Dennis Rehberg [R, MT-0] Aye
Rep. Dave Reichert [R, WA-8] Aye
Rep. Jim Renacci [R, OH-16] Aye
Rep. Scott Rigell [R, VA-2] Aye
Rep. David Rivera [R, FL-25] Aye
Rep. Martha Roby [R, AL-2] Aye
Rep. Michael Rogers [R, MI-8] Aye
Rep. Harold Rogers [R, KY-5] Aye
Rep. Michael Rogers [R, AL-3] Aye
Rep. Thomas Rooney [R, FL-16] Aye
Rep. Peter Roskam [R, IL-6] Aye
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R, FL-18] Aye
Rep. Dennis Ross [R, FL-12] Aye
Rep. Jon Runyan [R, NJ-3] Aye
Rep. Paul Ryan [R, WI-1] Aye
Rep. Steve Scalise [R, LA-1] Aye
Rep. Robert Schilling [R, IL-17] Aye
Rep. Jean Schmidt [R, OH-2] Aye
Rep. Aaron Schock [R, IL-18] Aye
Rep. Tim Scott [R, SC-1] Aye
Rep. Austin Scott [R, GA-8] Aye
Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R, WI-5] Aye
Rep. Peter Sessions [R, TX-32] Aye
Rep. John Shimkus [R, IL-19] Aye
Rep. William Shuster [R, PA-9] Aye
Rep. Christopher Smith [R, NJ-4] Aye
Rep. Adrian Smith [R, NE-3] Aye
Rep. Lamar Smith [R, TX-21] Aye
Rep. Steve Southerland [R, FL-2] Aye
Rep. Clifford Stearns [R, FL-6] Aye
Rep. Steve Stivers [R, OH-15] Aye
Rep. John Sullivan [R, OK-1] Aye
Rep. Lee Terry [R, NE-2] Aye
Rep. Glenn Thompson [R, PA-5] Aye
Rep. William Thornberry [R, TX-13] Aye
Rep. Patrick Tiberi [R, OH-12] Aye
Rep. Robert Turner [R, NY-9] Aye
Rep. Michael Turner [R, OH-3] Aye
Rep. Frederick Upton [R, MI-6] Aye
Rep. Greg Walden [R, OR-2] Aye
Rep. Daniel Webster [R, FL-8] Aye
Rep. Allen West [R, FL-22] Aye
Rep. Lynn Westmoreland [R, GA-3] Aye
Rep. Edward Whitfield [R, KY-1] Aye
Rep. Addison Wilson [R, SC-2] Aye
Rep. Rob Wittman [R, VA-1] Aye
Rep. Frank Wolf [R, VA-10] Aye
Rep. Steve Womack [R, AR-3] Aye
Rep. Kevin Yoder [R, KS-3] Aye
Rep. Donald Young [R, AK-0] Aye
Rep. Todd Young [R, IN-9] Aye

Democrats Voting 'Aye'
Name Voted
Rep. Gary Ackerman [D, NY-5] Aye
Rep. Jason Altmire [D, PA-4] Aye
Rep. Robert Andrews [D, NJ-1] Aye
Rep. Joe Baca [D, CA-43] Aye
Rep. John Barrow [D, GA-12] Aye
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D, NV-1] Aye
Rep. Howard Berman [D, CA-28] Aye
Rep. Sanford Bishop [D, GA-2] Aye
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D, NY-1] Aye
Rep. Dan Boren [D, OK-2] Aye
Rep. Leonard Boswell [D, IA-3] Aye
Rep. Robert Brady [D, PA-1] Aye
Rep. Corrine Brown [D, FL-3] Aye
Rep. George Butterfield [D, NC-1] Aye
Rep. Lois Capps [D, CA-23] Aye
Rep. Dennis Cardoza [D, CA-18] Aye
Rep. Russ Carnahan [D, MO-3] Aye
Rep. John Carney [D, DE-0] Aye
Rep. Kathy Castor [D, FL-11] Aye
Rep. Ben Chandler [D, KY-6] Aye
Rep. David Cicilline [D, RI-1] Aye
Rep. Gerald Connolly [D, VA-11] Aye
Rep. Jim Cooper [D, TN-5] Aye
Rep. Jim Costa [D, CA-20] Aye
Rep. Joe Courtney [D, CT-2] Aye
Rep. Mark Critz [D, PA-12] Aye
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D, NY-7] Aye
Rep. Henry Cuellar [D, TX-28] Aye
Rep. Susan Davis [D, CA-53] Aye
Rep. Ted Deutch [D, FL-19] Aye
Rep. Norman Dicks [D, WA-6] Aye
Rep. John Dingell [D, MI-15] Aye
Rep. Lloyd Doggett [D, TX-25] Aye
Rep. Joe Donnelly [D, IN-2] Aye
Rep. Eliot Engel [D, NY-17] Aye
Rep. John Garamendi [D, CA-10] Aye
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D, TX-20] Aye
Rep. Al Green [D, TX-9] Aye
Rep. Raymond Green [D, TX-29] Aye
Rep. Colleen Hanabusa [D, HI-1] Aye
Rep. Brian Higgins [D, NY-27] Aye
Rep. James Himes [D, CT-4] Aye
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D, HI-2] Aye
Rep. Kathleen Hochul [D, NY-26] Aye
Rep. Tim Holden [D, PA-17] Aye
Rep. Steny Hoyer [D, MD-5] Aye
Rep. Jay Inslee [D, WA-1] Aye
Rep. Steve Israel [D, NY-2] Aye
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18] Aye
Rep. William Keating [D, MA-10] Aye
Rep. Dale Kildee [D, MI-5] Aye
Rep. Ronald Kind [D, WI-3] Aye
Rep. Larry Kissell [D, NC-8] Aye
Rep. James Langevin [D, RI-2] Aye
Rep. Rick Larsen [D, WA-2] Aye
Rep. John Larson [D, CT-1] Aye
Rep. Sander Levin [D, MI-12] Aye
Rep. Daniel Lipinski [D, IL-3] Aye
Rep. David Loebsack [D, IA-2] Aye
Rep. Nita Lowey [D, NY-18] Aye
Rep. Jim Matheson [D, UT-2] Aye
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D, NY-4] Aye
Rep. Mike McIntyre [D, NC-7] Aye
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D, CA-11] Aye
Rep. William Owens [D, NY-23] Aye
Rep. William Pascrell [D, NJ-8] Aye
Rep. Edward Pastor [D, AZ-4] Aye
Rep. Nancy Pelosi [D, CA-8] Aye
Rep. Ed Perlmutter [D, CO-7] Aye
Rep. Collin Peterson [D, MN-7] Aye
Rep. Nick Rahall [D, WV-3] Aye
Rep. Silvestre Reyes [D, TX-16] Aye
Rep. Laura Richardson [D, CA-37] Aye
Rep. Mike Ross [D, AR-4] Aye
Rep. Steven Rothman [D, NJ-9] Aye
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger [D, MD-2] Aye
Rep. Linda Sánchez [D, CA-39] Aye
Rep. Adam Schiff [D, CA-29] Aye
Rep. Kurt Schrader [D, OR-5] Aye
Rep. Allyson Schwartz [D, PA-13] Aye
Rep. David Scott [D, GA-13] Aye
Rep. Terri Sewell [D, AL-7] Aye
Rep. Brad Sherman [D, CA-27] Aye
Rep. Heath Shuler [D, NC-11] Aye
Rep. Albio Sires [D, NJ-13] Aye
Rep. Adam Smith [D, WA-9] Aye
Rep. Betty Sutton [D, OH-13] Aye
Rep. Niki Tsongas [D, MA-5] Aye
Rep. Peter Visclosky [D, IN-1] Aye
Rep. Timothy Walz [D, MN-1] Aye
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D, FL-20] Aye
Rep. Henry Waxman [D, CA-30] Aye
Rep. Frederica Wilson [D, FL-17] Aye

Republicans Voting 'Nay'
Name Voted
Rep. Justin Amash [R, MI-3] Nay
Rep. Larry Bucshon [R, IN-8] Nay
Rep. Michael Burgess [R, TX-26] Nay
Rep. Dan Burton [R, IN-5] Nay
Rep. John Campbell [R, CA-48] Nay
Rep. Jason Chaffetz [R, UT-3] Nay
Rep. Mike Coffman [R, CO-6] Nay
Rep. Scott DesJarlais [R, TN-4] Nay
Rep. Jeff Duncan [R, SC-3] Nay
Rep. John Duncan [R, TN-2] Nay
Rep. Jeff Flake [R, AZ-6] Nay
Rep. Randy Forbes [R, VA-4] Nay
Rep. Scott Garrett [R, NJ-5] Nay
Rep. Robert Goodlatte [R, VA-6] Nay
Rep. Paul Gosar [R, AZ-1] Nay
Rep. Trey Gowdy [R, SC-4] Nay
Rep. Tom Graves [R, GA-9] Nay
Rep. Morgan Griffith [R, VA-9] Nay
Rep. Andy Harris [R, MD-1] Nay
Rep. Tim Huelskamp [R, KS-1] Nay
Rep. Bill Huizenga [R, MI-2] Nay
Rep. Robert Hurt [R, VA-5] Nay
Rep. Timothy Johnson [R, IL-15] Nay
Rep. Walter Jones [R, NC-3] Nay
Rep. Raúl Labrador [R, ID-1] Nay
Rep. Cynthia Lummis [R, WY-0] Nay
Rep. Connie Mack [R, FL-14] Nay
Rep. Tom McClintock [R, CA-4] Nay
Rep. Mick Mulvaney [R, SC-5] Nay
Rep. Mike Pence [R, IN-6] Nay
Rep. Bill Posey [R, FL-15] Nay
Rep. Reid Ribble [R, WI-8] Nay
Rep. Phil Roe [R, TN-1] Nay
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher [R, CA-46] Nay
Rep. Todd Rokita [R, IN-4] Nay
Rep. Edward Royce [R, CA-40] Nay
Rep. David Schweikert [R, AZ-5] Nay
Rep. Michael Simpson [R, ID-2] Nay
Rep. Marlin Stutzman [R, IN-3] Nay
Rep. Scott Tipton [R, CO-3] Nay
Rep. Timothy Walberg [R, MI-7] Nay
Rep. Joe Walsh [R, IL-8] Nay
Rep. Rob Woodall [R, GA-7] Nay

Democrats Voting 'Nay'
Name Voted
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D, WI-2] Nay
Rep. Karen Bass [D, CA-33] Nay
Rep. Xavier Becerra [D, CA-31] Nay
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D, OR-3] Nay
Rep. Bruce Braley [D, IA-1] Nay
Rep. Michael Capuano [D, MA-8] Nay
Rep. André Carson [D, IN-7] Nay
Rep. Judy Chu [D, CA-32] Nay
Rep. Hansen Clarke [D, MI-13] Nay
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D, NY-11] Nay
Rep. William Clay [D, MO-1] Nay
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver [D, MO-5] Nay
Rep. James Clyburn [D, SC-6] Nay
Rep. Steve Cohen [D, TN-9] Nay
Rep. John Conyers [D, MI-14] Nay
Rep. Jerry Costello [D, IL-12] Nay
Rep. Elijah Cummings [D, MD-7] Nay
Rep. Danny Davis [D, IL-7] Nay
Rep. Peter DeFazio [D, OR-4] Nay
Rep. Diana DeGette [D, CO-1] Nay
Rep. Rosa DeLauro [D, CT-3] Nay
Rep. Michael Doyle [D, PA-14] Nay
Rep. Donna Edwards [D, MD-4] Nay
Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5] Nay
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D, CA-14] Nay
Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17] Nay
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D, PA-2] Nay
Rep. Barney Frank [D, MA-4] Nay
Rep. Marcia Fudge [D, OH-11] Nay
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D, AZ-7] Nay
Rep. Janice Hahn [D, CA-36] Nay
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D, FL-23] Nay
Rep. Martin Heinrich [D, NM-1] Nay
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22] Nay
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa [D, TX-15] Nay
Rep. Rush Holt [D, NJ-12] Nay
Rep. Michael Honda [D, CA-15] Nay
Rep. Jesse Jackson [D, IL-2] Nay
Rep. Henry Johnson [D, GA-4] Nay
Rep. Marcy Kaptur [D, OH-9] Nay
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D, OH-10] Nay
Rep. Barbara Lee [D, CA-9] Nay
Rep. John Lewis [D, GA-5] Nay
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D, CA-16] Nay
Rep. Ben Luján [D, NM-3] Nay
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D, NY-14] Nay
Rep. Edward Markey [D, MA-7] Nay
Rep. Doris Matsui [D, CA-5] Nay
Rep. Betty McCollum [D, MN-4] Nay
Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7] Nay
Rep. James McGovern [D, MA-3] Nay
Rep. Gregory Meeks [D, NY-6] Nay
Rep. Michael Michaud [D, ME-2] Nay
Rep. George Miller [D, CA-7] Nay
Rep. Bradley Miller [D, NC-13] Nay
Rep. Gwen Moore [D, WI-4] Nay
Rep. James Moran [D, VA-8] Nay
Rep. Christopher Murphy [D, CT-5] Nay
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D, NY-8] Nay
Rep. Grace Napolitano [D, CA-38] Nay
Rep. Richard Neal [D, MA-2] Nay
Rep. John Olver [D, MA-1] Nay
Rep. Frank Pallone [D, NJ-6] Nay
Rep. Donald Payne [D, NJ-10] Nay
Rep. Gary Peters [D, MI-9] Nay
Rep. Chellie Pingree [D, ME-1] Nay
Rep. Jared Polis [D, CO-2] Nay
Rep. David Price [D, NC-4] Nay
Rep. Mike Quigley [D, IL-5] Nay
Rep. Charles Rangel [D, NY-15] Nay
Rep. Cedric Richmond [D, LA-2] Nay
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard [D, CA-34] Nay
Rep. Bobby Rush [D, IL-1] Nay
Rep. Timothy Ryan [D, OH-17] Nay
Rep. John Sarbanes [D, MD-3] Nay
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D, IL-9] Nay
Rep. Robert Scott [D, VA-3] Nay
Rep. José Serrano [D, NY-16] Nay
Rep. Louise Slaughter [D, NY-28] Nay
Rep. Jackie Speier [D, CA-12] Nay
Rep. Fortney Stark [D, CA-13] Nay
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D, MS-2] Nay
Rep. Michael Thompson [D, CA-1] Nay
Rep. John Tierney [D, MA-6] Nay
Rep. Paul Tonko [D, NY-21] Nay
Rep. Edolphus Towns [D, NY-10] Nay
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D, MD-8] Nay
Rep. Nydia Velázquez [D, NY-12] Nay
Rep. Maxine Waters [D, CA-35] Nay
Rep. Melvin Watt [D, NC-12] Nay
Rep. Peter Welch [D, VT-0] Nay
Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D, CA-6] Nay
Rep. John Yarmuth [D, KY-3] Nay

Republicans Voting 'Abstain'
Name Voted
Rep. Michele Bachmann [R, MN-6] Abstain
Rep. Howard Coble [R, NC-6] Abstain
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart [R, FL-21] Abstain
Rep. Steven LaTourette [R, OH-14] Abstain
Rep. Sue Myrick [R, NC-9] Abstain
Rep. Ronald Paul [R, TX-14] Abstain
Rep. Joseph Pitts [R, PA-16] Abstain
Rep. Bill Young [R, FL-10] Abstain

Democrats Voting 'Abstain'
Name Voted
Rep. Bob Filner [D, CA-51] Abstain
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords [D, AZ-8] Abstain
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez [D, IL-4] Abstain
Rep. Eddie Johnson [D, TX-30] Abstain
Rep. Stephen Lynch [D, MA-9] Abstain
Rep. Loretta Sanchez [D, CA-47] Abstain

Read more: http://interact.stlt...6#ixzz1gdI1RLf2

[Uncle Harley]

mstrat, on 15 December 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

By the way... Although I disagree with nearly everything Durbin does, he's coming down on the right side of this one. He (or his staff) wrote, in part:

" We must not allow the depravity of our enemies to cause us to abandon our nation's most fundamental values. Indefinite detention without recourse to legal proceedings is inconsistent with the principles of liberty and the rule of law that underpin our democracy.

Recognizing this, the Senate agreed on a compromise amendment, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, that clarifies the language on detainees, excluding United States citizens, lawful resident aliens, and anyone captured or arrested in the United Sates. "
...
"The Senate and House are currently reconciling the differences between the two versions of the NDAA."

(emphasis added).

So what does this mean?   Have we had a case of chicken little syndrome when all along it hasn't applied to US citizens?  Because  if it is true that it does not apply to us  and only applies to POW's then  I'm not apposed at all.  It would merely make formal what we have been doing all along.

[pyre400]

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

So what does this mean? Have we had a case of chicken little syndrome when all along it hasn't applied to US citizens? Because if it is true that it does not apply to us and only applies to POW's then I'm not apposed at all. It would merely make formal what we have been doing all along.

Stewart provides some analysis and cites text: http://oathkeepers.o...merican-people/

[GarandFan]

I think that Lou is the only person who understood the point of my post.

But anyway ... carry on.

[pyre400]

GarandFan, on 15 December 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think that Lou is the only person who understood the point of my post.

But anyway ... carry on.

Sorry - I meant no disrespect, GF.

I can split the posts that dont directly relate to the reciprocity into another thread if you'd like. ..be more than happy to.


ETA: I think I now see your point. Reciprocity would draw an obama veto?

[Uncle Harley]

pyre400, on 15 December 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

So what does this mean? Have we had a case of chicken little syndrome when all along it hasn't applied to US citizens? Because if it is true that it does not apply to us and only applies to POW's then I'm not apposed at all. It would merely make formal what we have been doing all along.

Stewart provides some analysis and cites text: http://oathkeepers.o...merican-people/

From your link  


There is a great deal of confusion about this bill, with some incorrectly interpreting it as not affecting American citizens. There is also confusion about the very dangerous legal precedents that this bill seeks to codify and bolster


So my question is,  is this why Obama originally vowed to veto it?,   and then

From the text I quoted...............

"Recognizing this, the Senate agreed on a compromise amendment, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, that clarifies the language on detainees, excluding United States citizens, lawful resident aliens, and anyone captured or arrested in the United Sates. "


And now that they agreed on an amendment that makes it CLEAR that ANYONE captured or arrested in the US is exempt that he now lifted his veto threat. I can't belive what I'm about to type,  but this may just be the best thing Obama has done his entire time in office.   ( threten to veto the bill in it's original format that is)

[colt-45]

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

pyre400, on 15 December 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

So what does this mean? Have we had a case of chicken little syndrome when all along it hasn't applied to US citizens? Because if it is true that it does not apply to us and only applies to POW's then I'm not apposed at all. It would merely make formal what we have been doing all along.

Stewart provides some analysis and cites text: http://oathkeepers.o...merican-people/

From your link


There is a great deal of confusion about this bill, with some incorrectly interpreting it as not affecting American citizens. There is also confusion about the very dangerous legal precedents that this bill seeks to codify and bolster


So my question is, is this why Obama originally vowed to veto it?, and then

From the text I quoted...............

"Recognizing this, the Senate agreed on a compromise amendment, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, that clarifies the language on detainees, excluding United States citizens, lawful resident aliens, and anyone captured or arrested in the United Sates. "


And now that they agreed on an amendment that makes it CLEAR that ANYONE captured or arrested in the US is exempt that he now lifted his veto threat. I can't belive what I'm about to type, but this may just be the best thing Obama has done his entire time in office. ( threten to veto the bill in it's original format that is)

i wish that some one that really know how that bill reads would explain it to all of us. cause i'm getting both we can be and we are excluded from the bill so witch one is it?

[Uncle Harley]

colt-45, on 15 December 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

i wish that some one that really know how that bill reads would explain it to all of us. cause i'm getting both we can be and we are excluded from the bill so witch one is it?

we have to vote on it to see what's in it  

[pyre400]

Uncle Harley, on 15 December 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

I can't belive what I'm about to type, but this may just be the best thing Obama has done his entire time in office. ( threten to veto the bill in it's original format that is)

Some have said its posturing by Obama, and that he may even sign it anyway.

colt-45, on 15 December 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

i wish that some one that really know how that bill reads would explain it to all of us. cause i'm getting both we can be and we are excluded from the bill so witch one is it?

Its both... US citizens are excluded in one section, but another section has wording that gives the president an "option". Stewart covers that in the link I provided. There's a video there too, if you have broadband.