88 replies to this topic

[NakPPI]

Hatchet, on 14 February 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I wonder if the judge in Moore said no so the judge in Shepard can say yes, instant conflict. Would that not go to Illinois Supreme rite away? or am I as stupid at the judicial system as I think I am?

Wrong court system.

This is federal. So the only place to go is the seventh circuit and then to SCOTUS.

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[stm]

How long will this motion delay a decision in Shepard v. Madigan?

Is the judge in Shepard obliged to follow the precedent set by Moore?

If the judge in Shepard issues an injunction, is it only valid in the Southern District of Illinois?

Will split decisions hasten a ruling from the 7th Circuit?

[Federal Farmer]

stm, on 14 February 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

How long will this motion delay a decision in Shepard v. Madigan?

Is the judge in Shepard obliged to follow the precedent set by Moore?

If the judge in Shepard issues an injunction, is it only valid in the Southern District of Illinois?

Will split decisions hasten a ruling from the 7th Circuit?

I think the Moore ruling is non-precedential, though the Shepard judge can utilize it informationally.

[NakPPI]

How long will this motion delay a decision in Shepard v. Madigan?

None. This sort of thing will be entered "off call" I doubt that there will be a hearing unless the judge requests it.


Is the judge in Shepard obliged to follow the precedent set by Moore?

Nope. The Moore court is on the same level as the Shepard court.

If the judge in Shepard issues an injunction, is it only valid in the Southern District of Illinois?

Nope. The constitution doesn't just apply based on districts. Also Shepard is not an injunction case. It's a summary judgment case.


Will split decisions hasten a ruling from the 7th Circuit?

Yup. Remember the whole discussion about legislative vacuums? If we win summary judgment in Shepard we trigger a legislative vacuum.



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[stm]

Thanks, NakPPI!

[Hatchet]

NakPPI, on 14 February 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Hatchet, on 14 February 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I wonder if the judge in Moore said no so the judge in Shepard can say yes, instant conflict. Would that not go to Illinois Supreme rite away? or am I as stupid at the judicial system as I think I am?

Wrong court system.

This is federal. So the only place to go is the seventh circuit and then to SCOTUS.

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Thanks for the clarification... So I am as stupid as I thought. I knew I shouldn't have slept that much in school.

[NakPPI]

I meant regulatory vaccuum, not legislative vacuum. Oops.

Also, winning Shepard would be ripe for more subtle lawyer humor. Moore was dismissed outright for lack of a second amendment claim. A judgment in Shepard would be like saying not only is there a claim, the plaintiff is right! More thumbs for Myerscough's eyes...

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[lockman]

NakPPI, on 14 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I meant regulatory vaccuum, not legislative vacuum. Oops.

Also, winning Shepard would be ripe for more subtle lawyer humor. Moore was dismissed outright for lack of a second amendment claim. A judgment in Shepard would be like saying not only is there a claim, the plaintiff is right! More thumbs for Myerscough's eyes...

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Were can I get a legislative vacuum, they might come in real handy to clean up around Washington, Chicago and Springfield!

[snubjob]

NakPPI, on 14 February 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

How long will this motion delay a decision in Shepard v. Madigan?

None. This sort of thing will be entered "off call" I doubt that there will be a hearing unless the judge requests it.


Is the judge in Shepard obliged to follow the precedent set by Moore?

Nope. The Moore court is on the same level as the Shepard court.

If the judge in Shepard issues an injunction, is it only valid in the Southern District of Illinois?

Nope. The constitution doesn't just apply based on districts. Also Shepard is not an injunction case. It's a summary judgment case.


Will split decisions hasten a ruling from the 7th Circuit?

Yup. Remember the whole discussion about legislative vacuums? If we win summary judgment in Shepard we trigger a legislative vacuum.

Thanks for clearing that up for me also!  Was a little confused.  Well maybe alot confused!

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[Sigma]

I dont get why he said the court left the issue not wholly decided. They went to great detail to explain what bear means and added the words such as. Seems like saying it wasnt decided gives the 7th a way to say the same as Meyerscough

Edited by Sigma, 14 February 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[NakPPI]

Sigma, on 14 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I dont get why he said the court left the issue not wholly decided. They went to great detail to explain what bear means and added the words such as. Seems like saying it wasnt decided gives the 7th a way to say the same as Meyerscough

Heller specifically left issues undecided for future cases. Gura only wanted a ruling as to guns in the home. This was a tactical legal decision. If they added too many other issues they may have not gotten the same ruling.

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[TomKoz]

NakPPI, on 14 February 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Sigma, on 14 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I dont get why he said the court left the issue not wholly decided. They went to great detail to explain what bear means and added the words such as. Seems like saying it wasnt decided gives the 7th a way to say the same as Meyerscough

Heller specifically left issues undecided for future cases. Gura only wanted a ruling as to guns in the home. This was a tactical legal decision. If they added too many other issues they may have not gotten the same ruling.

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OR the opportunity for more billable hours???

[lockman]

NakPPI, on 14 February 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Sigma, on 14 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I dont get why he said the court left the issue not wholly decided. They went to great detail to explain what bear means and added the words such as. Seems like saying it wasnt decided gives the 7th a way to say the same as Meyerscough

Heller specifically left issues undecided for future cases. Gura only wanted a ruling as to guns in the home. This was a tactical legal decision. If they added too many other issues they may have not gotten the same ruling.

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the finding may be narrow but the definitions rendered of "bear" was quite clear, but ignored.

[NakPPI]

Quote

the finding may be narrow but the definitions rendered of "bear" was quite clear, but ignored.

You are referring to dicta. Which is admittedly being ignored. Judge Neville's dissent in Aguilar addresses this issue quite thoroughly.

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[Tvandermyde]

this may delay things about a week for the judge to decide if they are going to address it or not.

[dmefford]

TomKoz, on 14 February 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

OR the opportunity for more billable hours???

Not so on the billable hours... The Supreme Court prefers cases that are very narrowly defined. This case wanted a decision #1 on, "Is the RKBA a fundamental individual right secured by the 2A of the Bill of Rights? And #2., This makes it narrow..., can the firearm be carried in the home ready for defense?

That is very narrow. He did not want to ask can it be carried in the back yard? or on the street? or anywhere else.

The result:

1. The RKBA is a fundamental individual right
2. It can be carried in the home loaded for bad guys.

That is the bare essence of the findings...

Regards, Drd

Edited by dmefford, 14 February 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Sigma]

The Daily caller talks about this.

And gives a nice plug to Illinois carry

[frankw438]

Sigma, on 24 February 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

The Daily caller talks about this.

And gives a nice plug to Illinois carry

I like Bob Barr. He writes some pretty good stuff.

I think he mentions the Moore v. Madigan case, not Shepard v. Madigan. At any rate, it was a good article, and great to see IllinoisCarry mentioned in the press again!

Thanks for sharing this article with us!

-- Frank

[abolt243]

Yeah, I know.  You saw this jump to the top and you were hoping for a decision.  Well, that ain't it.  But, there has been much consternation over the fact that Judge Meyerscough dismissed Moore and the fact that she was an Obama appointee, that I got to wondering about Judge Stiehl, the presiding judge in Shepard.  This has probably been covered someplace already and if it has, I'll remove this post.  But, I found out that Judge Stiehl was born in 1925, (so he's 87) in Belleville.  He served in the Navy during WW II and the Korean conflict.  He was in private practice from 1952 to 1986.  He served as Asst. States' Attorney at Belleville and Asst. Attorney General of Illinois.  He was nominated by Pres. Ronald Reagan in 1986 and confirmed by the Senate within a month.  He served as Chief Judge from 1992 - 1993.  

So, he's a Reagan appointee and has military background.  Don't know if that makes him more or less sympathetic to our cause, but it's certainly different than the background of Judge Meyerscough.

Just thought I'd pass that along.

Tim

[TomKoz]

abolt243, on 09 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yeah, I know.  You saw this jump to the top and you were hoping for a decision.  Well, that ain't it.  But, there has been much consternation over the fact that Judge Meyerscough dismissed Moore and the fact that she was an Obama appointee, that I got to wondering about Judge Stiehl, the presiding judge in Shepard.  This has probably been covered someplace already and if it has, I'll remove this post.  But, I found out that Judge Stiehl was born in 1925, (so he's 87) in Belleville.  He served in the Navy during WW II and the Korean conflict.  He was in private practice from 1952 to 1986.  He served as Asst. States' Attorney at Belleville and Asst. Attorney General of Illinois.  He was nominated by Pres. Ronald Reagan in 1986 and confirmed by the Senate within a month.  He served as Chief Judge from 1992 - 1993.  

So, he's a Reagan appointee and has military background.  Don't know if that makes him more or less sympathetic to our cause, but it's certainly different than the background of Judge Meyerscough.

Just thought I'd pass that along.

Tim

87 years old !!!!!  Wonder if it's taking so long because the ruling is being written between naps!  ;~)

[abolt243]

TomKoz, on 09 March 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

abolt243, on 09 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yeah, I know.  You saw this jump to the top and you were hoping for a decision.  Well, that ain't it.  But, there has been much consternation over the fact that Judge Meyerscough dismissed Moore and the fact that she was an Obama appointee, that I got to wondering about Judge Stiehl, the presiding judge in Shepard.  This has probably been covered someplace already and if it has, I'll remove this post.  But, I found out that Judge Stiehl was born in 1925, (so he's 87) in Belleville.  He served in the Navy during WW II and the Korean conflict.  He was in private practice from 1952 to 1986.  He served as Asst. States' Attorney at Belleville and Asst. Attorney General of Illinois.  He was nominated by Pres. Ronald Reagan in 1986 and confirmed by the Senate within a month.  He served as Chief Judge from 1992 - 1993.  

So, he's a Reagan appointee and has military background.  Don't know if that makes him more or less sympathetic to our cause, but it's certainly different than the background of Judge Meyerscough.

Just thought I'd pass that along.

Tim

87 years old !!!!!  Wonder if it's taking so long because the ruling is being written between naps!  ;~)

Now, be nice.  For all we know, he's a 87 year young techie that's reading your comments on his iPad while dictating his decisions to a voice recognition laptop!!  

Quite frankly, I hope that I am still around to take naps at 87.  I can't imagine still subjecting myself to the stress of being on the bench!!

Tim

[NakPPI]

You guys are funny. Their law clerks write this stuff and then they edit it.

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[Drylok]

I hope the Paulbots read this and take it under great consideration when they close the curtain in November

[abolt243]

NakPPI, on 09 March 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

You guys are funny. Their law clerks write this stuff and then they edit it.

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Then the clerks very well may be reading our comments on their iPads!!

T

[abolt243]

Drylok, on 09 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I hope the Paulbots read this and take it under great consideration when they close the curtain in November

Yep, this might be another spot that needs to be filled sometime in the next 4 years.

UT

[TomKoz]

Come on guys/gals, judges and clerks have a sense of humor to!

[Sigma]

abolt243, on 09 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yeah, I know.  You saw this jump to the top and you were hoping for a decision.  Well, that ain't it.  But, there has been much consternation over the fact that Judge Meyerscough dismissed Moore and the fact that she was an Obama appointee, that I got to wondering about Judge Stiehl, the presiding judge in Shepard.  This has probably been covered someplace already and if it has, I'll remove this post.  But, I found out that Judge Stiehl was born in 1925, (so he's 87) in Belleville.  He served in the Navy during WW II and the Korean conflict.  He was in private practice from 1952 to 1986.  He served as Asst. States' Attorney at Belleville and Asst. Attorney General of Illinois.  He was nominated by Pres. Ronald Reagan in 1986 and confirmed by the Senate within a month.  He served as Chief Judge from 1992 - 1993.  

So, he's a Reagan appointee and has military background.  Don't know if that makes him more or less sympathetic to our cause, but it's certainly different than the background of Judge Meyerscough.

Just thought I'd pass that along.

Tim

i feel a lot better about this now

[C0untZer0]

I take naps.

I'd take a nap every day if I could.

On Sundays I take 2 naps !

[rskeeters]

[Were can I get a legislative vacuum, they might come in real handy to clean up around Washington, Chicago and Springfield!]

+1