38 replies to this topic

[bhannah]

Best of luck tonight at the town hall, please let us know how it goes..
Brian

[pyre400]

+1!!

Yes, thanks to all who are representing the 2A!

[Sigma]

Can anyone join me at the WVON one?

[scout26]

I had planned on being at the Rep Ford's Town Hall, but I won't be able to make it.  I will be there in spirit.  Go get 'em and win hearts and minds.

[GarandFan]

This should be a very positive event.  Colleen is a wonderful person to attend and speak at such an event.  I commend Rep. Ford for holding this town hall.

I wish it were televised!

[bhannah]

GarandFan, on 31 August 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

This should be a very positive event.  Colleen is a wonderful person to attend and speak at such an event.  I commend Rep. Ford for holding this town hall.

I wish it were televised!

I spoke to Colleen and Rep Ford at 3:00 pm today, there was coverage on CBS this morning as per Mr Ford so we may see some tonight as well.

Colleen said she would update us when it is over.
Brian

[mstrat]

Yes, Good luck and let us know how it goes!

I'm in Rep. Ford's district, and had planned to be there.  Sadly I'm stuck in this chair for another few weeks (was in a bad accident recently, and the bones aren't healing yet and the doc ordered me to quit moving).

But raise some hell on my behalf!

[Tvandermyde]

we won

[bhannah]

Little more info ?

Anyone..

[GarandFan]

Tvandermyde, on 31 August 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

we won

To me, that means LaShawn is now a YES vote on concealed carry.

Don't know if that's true, or not, but that would be a WIN.

[bhannah]

Garand Ford said he was taking a vote when people walked in, and another when they left..
That may be what Tod is speaking of..

[Tvandermyde]

They had to import Father Flakey and crew to have opposition. He didn't speak, so maybe the Cardinal gave him a warning.

Annette Holt was there, and it was noticed that "out of towners" were from the other side.

Vanden Berk from Brady/ICHV was there and on the panel. he skipped RTC and wanted to talk about national registration.

A Chicago police commander was there, you can imigine his deal, he was worried about officer safety and how this makes it rougher on cops. So I asked him if Chicago cops were stupid or incompitent? he didn't like the question to which I explained that Dallas, Miami, Detroit and almost all other makor cites deal with carry permit and don't have a problem with their cops.
Garret Evens, was ther from Virginia Tech.

If I was the other side, I would be taking away that they have lost their base and that what they could once call a solid segment behind them, is crumbling beneath their feet.

[bhannah]

How was the crowd?
Were they with us ?

[Mrs. Federal Farmer]

The meeting was held in a large, clean and pleasant warehouse space donated for the meeting by its owner. Approximately 100 to 120 people sat in the audience. Representative Ford did a constituent call and determined that approximately 30% were from his district. I believe the remaining 2/3 were half folks there to represent pro, and half to represent con.

On the panel were, from left to right:
Mike W., (pro)
me, (pro)
Assistant Chicago Police Chief Ernie Brown, (con)
26-year veteran cop David LeMieux, (pro)
State Rep Rich, (learning)
State Rep Art Turner, (learning)
Senator Anazette Collins,(learning)
Representative Ford, (learning)
Todd Vandermyde (pro)
Garrett Evans of Virginia Tech,(con)
Tom Vanden Berk of Uhlich Children's Home.(con)


Also present were Colleen Daley of ICHV and Tom Walsh of ICPGV. She and perhaps he were also at Cullerton's town hall, and spoke neither time, just kind of monitored.

Father Pf was in audience
Annette Holt was in audience and spoke at the audience microphone
Ron Holt was in audience, I believe.

Meeting started and ended promptly, all attending were courteous and respectful.
LaShawn Ford is an impeccable and classy host. There's no higher level of Representative of host than what he displayed.


Report follows in next post.

[Mrs. Federal Farmer]

Mike W. spoke first, prepared with the notes he would have in a presentation on concealed carry, the history of Chicago, guns, violence, our constitution, civil rights and an across the board debunking of anti-gun propaganda. This took only 8 minutes. He was brilliant.

Assistant Brown followed, with the argument that our FOID system is flawed in terms of the mentally ill and that our cops are at risk from more guns on the streets.

I gave handouts to the audience. In the handouts, #21 debunked Brown's FOID argument. Mike W's listing of top cop organizations supporting us debunked the cops-are-complaining myth. When he spoke, Todd Vandermyde actually asked Officer Brown if Illinois cops were stupider than cops from other major cities (to which Brown replied "I refuse to dignify ...."). Unperturbed, Todd told how the other city's cops changed to support of CC once they saw its effects. Two blue shirt cops in the audience effectively finished Brown by stating that blue shirts supported us across the country.

After Brown, there were some audience questions, then a back and forth of questions, and panelist statements.

By the end of the meeting, Ford had one question for the audience: "Does this mean that police need more training before CC comes to Chicago?"

I take this to mean, as Todd did, that we won, and now Representative Ford will be concentrating on the most positive means of instituting concealed carry when -- not if --- it arrives here.

In quick summary, Todd was just an OMG fountain of brilliance and on-target response and report. I wish I could speak as concisely and with such relevance as he does.

Garrett Evans lived through a horrific experience as a survivor of Virginia Tech, but I think he whines. I'm sorry, I'm glad he's alive, but I feel he is looping the moment and not progressing anywhere, nor for anyone.

Tom Vanden Berk basically echoed Brown.

The State Reps and Senator Collins made me happy to have come to the meeting. Their collective words and demeanor bespoke honesty, listening and caring that I haven't seen in Chicago politicians before. I wish all Chicago politicians were like this.

The next post will just be my notes on what the audience members said as they came to the microphone in the second half of the meeting -- hope they're not too cryptic.

[Mrs. Federal Farmer]

Although Representative Ford's quick initial audience poll appeared to show that most of the audience were not pro concealed carry, the voices of the 30 or so who came to the microphones was overwhelmingly for concealed carry. I am afraid I did not notice which of the voices below was Annette Holt's, so I can't identify it; I was simply told later that she had been among those who spoke.

Also, when I stood to make my statement from the panel, I told the audience that I was there as a parent, and the handout I gave was what I thought their most important concerns were as parents in the community, and that I'd be happy to give them slides supporting my answers to the questions on it. I mentioned that the slides would be factual, and allow them to see stuff for themselves. I'd noticed as I parked that Father Pfleger and his entourage was parking, too -- so I told the audience that I had slides showing Father Pfleger leaving at least one town hall meeting letting the community members he was advising to stay away from guns ... well, letting them leave alone and unprotected, while he left through a separate exit surrounded by a phalanx of burly guys with secret-service things in their ears. And that I had Jesse Jackson on tape being asked by CPD to stop his actions "Do you *want* us to arrest you?!" and replying "I wouldn't mind!" ... then the next day complaining that he had been unfairly arrested.

Although Representative Ford joked at the top of the meeting that Father Pfleger had been offered the chance to speak and had modestly declined, someone came up to me after the meeting and said that Father Pfleger actually had intended to speak at the microphone, but changed his mind after I told the audience about my slides, and was "furious". So, what we have in the audience comments here are, so far as I can tell, real people, real constituents and citizens. I've numbered them just so you can tell when a new one speaks. Also, these are just my notes, so are just kind of representative of what they say (and how they are thinking presently).

1. If guns are so bad to have, why don't we just disarm all officers?

2. I owned a nightclub, one night 3 armed men came in and attacked. I shot one. It took me ten years and all my money to clear myself, although if I hadn't have shot him I'd be the one dead. I lost my club but I'm here and alive.

3. I'm a constituent, a member of NRA, ISRA and my brother was shot 28 times and killed at the age of 21. The criminals have the right to carry guns because they are outlaws and don't follow the laws, while I follow the laws and am shackled from carrying.

4. In my job, I do gang intervention. And I want you to know that I am pro concealed carry. Even though I work with and for them, 30 members of a gang attacked my home, from all sides. Why? Because I pushed a guy off a corner. I am also against the organization Cease-Fire. Why? Cause you gotta be "FOR real" not just "real" ... and they are not a "FOR real" organization.

5. State Trooper. FOR concealed carry.

6. I was at Duke Ellington school, and we had the Eddie Eagle program Colleen mentioned. I still remember every part of the program, stop, don't touch, run away, tell an adult --- and I still remember when Arne Duncan came in and told us we had to stop, that the Eddie Eagle program that educated kids on keeping safe from guns was now against the law to have in our school

7. My dad was a sheriff. i still remember him telling us that a lock on the door is for the innocent people. You are shackling us by not allowing us to have something that will actually stop the criminals  -- who are not innocent people.

8. My child was shot last year. I could not tell for certain who shot him. But if I had had a gun, I would have shot somebody, meaning another innocent child shot here in Chicago. I do not want concealed carry.

9. The ones doing the shooting are not the registered gun owners. I have had numerous family members killed, and, in 2008, a friend abducted by gun wielding criminals.I am FOR concealed carry.

10. I think Representative Ford has done the same count of us speaking as I have, and gotten the same answer. So far, we are gonna get this passed.

11. This is a target-rich environment we have created. I am FOR concealed carry.

12. 5000 people were killed by guns last year, 16 people a day. I am AGAINST concealed carry.

13. By denying concealed carry, we are helping the criminals

14. My daughter was shot, and just grazed, at 4 years old. at 14 she was shot dead. I bought a gun, went through the training and the foid, and when I heard someone come in, I fumbled trying to load it and shot the floor. That's when I realized that I could have shot my kids. I do NOT want concealed carry.

(note: I had already told the audience that as soon as your heart hits 115 beats per minute, you lose the abilities of complex thought and fine motor skills, and that the key to competence and overcoming that physical certainty was practice of your training. I fully believe this woman proves my point)

15. I'm a blue shirt cop, and you will NEVER see a blue shirt cop at that table, because they are not allowed to speak to you. But let me tell you, they are FOR concealed carry, they have NO obligation to help you, and they want YOUR help in stopping these criminals.

17. I'm a marine. I found myself surrounded, IN MY UNIFORM, by the 2-6 gang, who had no respect for my uniform nor what I had done for them. After surrounding me, the mother of my buddy here just happened to drive by, and the gang went to her car door and began to mess with her. You're telling me that I can go over there, fight for you, and then come home and just stand by helpless because you won't trust me with a firearm over here?

18. (His buddy)... I am a marine, and I was on the San Diego bus when some one (ones?) pulled out a huge knife and tried to abduct two citizens, two girls, off the bus. I pulled out my concealed pistol, and then two citizens with non-registered pistols pulled out theirs, too. By doing so, we  saved the lives of those girls and who knows how many others. But I lost my right, then, cause i told the two citizens i'd take the heat alone for it, so they wouldn't get in trouble. This is not right. This is not the way it should be.

Those were a sampling of what was said. I didn't get them all, but I think I got most.

Representative Ford said in closing, "it would be nice for more involvement from more constituents".

I agree, and I think more is coming. But all in all, I think that meeting was a rare and pretty good instance of real people being heard by real representatives of the people, and I'm glad about all who inquired or were able to attend.
--------------------------------------------
* Edited to add: Now that I think of it, it's funny that I chose that Jesse story, cuz I'd forgotten that the person standing next to him, and arrested with him, was Father Pfleger.

[FarmHand357]

Awesome job all!  You guys/gals rock and are a credit to our movement...

You've made me decide to compose a note of thanks to Rep. Ford for his open and honest approach towards representing the folks in his district and all Illinois citizens.

Thank you.

[Davey]

Quote

8. My child was shot last year. I could not tell for certain who shot him. But if I had had a gun, I would have shot somebody, meaning another innocent child shot here in Chicago. I do not want concealed carry.

14. My daughter was shot, and just grazed, at 4 years old. at 14 she was shot dead. I bought a gun, went through the training and the foid, and when I heard someone come in, I fumbled trying to load it and shot the floor. That's when I realized that I could have shot my kids. I do NOT want concealed carry.

Simply F'ing pathetic.  They are against it because they don't have the mental fortitude to control sudden homicidal tendencies or the forethought to practice loading a gun?  Why was the gun UNLOADED in the first place.  REALLY?

You know what, I don't want these freaking rejects to carry either.  Let them be victims.

If anyone here happens to know either of these two idiots please forward them my comments, sanitized or otherwise.

[GarandFan]

Very nice!  All the comments and meeting recounts are very much appreciated.  Good things happening in Chicagoland!

[Mrs. Federal Farmer]

Farmhand357 - I think that is a supremely good idea. Not only does he deserve it for a meeting that engaged both sides positively from start to finish, but I'll bet such letters don't often cross our legislator's desks. I'm sure he'll appreciate hearing your words.

Davey - At first read, I thought your post did need sanitizing, as not to alienate those two audience members when they were simply speaking honestly.  

Then I re-read, and realized that what you were saying was absolutely true. I may not have phrased it the same as you did, but you did, indeed, boil it down to Responsible Gun Ownership ...

allowing your training to lead, rather than your(homicidal) emotion;
not wasting that training by neglecting daily practice;
taking personal responsibility for each bullet you expend rather than blaming your ownership for where your bullets land;
remembering the first and most important rule of firearm safety (finger AWAY from trigger);
maintaining your firearm in a state of readiness; and
not projecting your personal shortcomings on others who are willing to exercise responsible ownership.

I don't agree with your "let them be victims" statement, but I do concede that not all who give it a try are cut out to be responsible owners.

And that's okay; they can still benefit from criminals knowing that some of us are. Right? Ultimately, we are all still in this together.

[Tvandermyde]

Several of the "anti" people spoke of their inability to control themselves -- including annette holt, that they would have shot someone, in the aftermath of their tragedy.

They all spoke as emotion about not liking guns or how much evil they cause, or from losing someone or being hurt by it.

Garret is a sincere individual. I think he had a life altering event. We spoke after the meeting and he thinks you should simply wear the "armor of God" and travel light. talked about how the bullet passed through both legs without hitting bone, or arteries or expanding. That it was a miracle. Ok I buy that.

But I told him it reminded me of the guy who says God help me in a flood and turns down the truck, boat and helicopter and drowns and asks God why he did not help him, to which God responds I sent you a truck a boat and a helicopter you didn't you take one?

I believe that Garret is sincere in his faith and that is where that event has taken him. But his idea of reasoning with bad people is something for him to try, I prefer to answer force with force when necessary.

The other side had no message. Ford offered up fair questions. They didn't want to talk about the bill, or even the concept. The other said showed up to debate "guns" in general.

I do wish that at times it could have been kept a bit more focused, but the Antis were just that anti.

We went where they thought we would never go, where they had a silent approval of the masses. that illusion should be gone now.

[mstrat]

I sent Ford a thank you letter for hosting the meeting, and my regret for not being able to attend, and expressing to him (for the 10,000th time) my support for concealed carry, and my hopes that the meeting helped alleviate some of his concerns.

Thanks for the recap MrsFF.  Glad to hear it was largely a success.

[lockman]

Is this what they are really saying?

Quote

8. My child was shot last year. I could not tell for certain who shot him. But if I had had a gun, I would have shot somebody, meaning another innocent child shot here in Chicago. I do not want concealed carry. (The person who shot my child is innocent? Or, I will shoot the another child in retribution, I don't care who?)

12. 5000 people were killed by guns last year, 16 people a day. I am AGAINST concealed c14. My daughter was shot, and just grazed, at 4 years old. at 14 she was shot dead. I bought a gun, went through the training and the foid, and when I heard someone come in, I fumbled trying to load it and shot the floor. That's when I realized that I could have shot my kids. I do NOT want concealed carry. (If I can't do this right I don't think anyone should; therefore, I want self-defense unlawful to discourage the potential that others that are unfamiliar or incompetent with firearms from getting them.)

A big thanks to all those 2A supporters and organizers that participated.

[mstrat]

Tvandermyde, on 01 September 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

We poke after the meeting and he think you should simply wear the "armor of God" and travel light. talked about how the bullet passed through both legs without hitting bone, or arteries or expanding. That it was a miracle. Ok I buy that.

But i told him it reminded me of the guy who says God help me in a flood and truns down the truck, boat and helicopter and drowns and asks God why he did not help him, to which God responds I sent you a truck a boat and a helicopter you didn't you take one?

That is exactly the story I thought of as soon as I read "should wear the 'armor of God'", and I think that was the ideal response. Hopefully it gave him something to think about.

And while his experiences are tragic (and precisely why he was brought there, I'm sure - to elicit an emotional response), I don't believe too much time or effort should be spent addressing his concerns in the larger debate. It's similar to the mothers of murdered gangbangers who speak out against concealed carry.
Their main argument is that "guns are bad," but the harsh reality is that nothing can be un-invented.

Whether or not the state issues concealed carry licenses, the murdering scumbags who destroyed the lives of those mothers, and Mr. Evans, do so regardless of the legality (murder is illegal - you can't claim with a straight face that a murderer would have been deterred by the UUW laws or a lack of a CCW license).

Don't have any logical, factually-supported arguments against concealed carry? Use emotional pleas against guns in general and hope the listener transfers that to CCW.

The point being - it's a red herring. Glad to hear you handled it well. Thank you!

[colt-45]

good job guys, looks like it went very well, was it on the news or is there a link?

[samy12386]

lockman, on 01 September 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

Is this what they are really saying?

Quote

8. My child was shot last year. I could not tell for certain who shot him. But if I had had a gun, I would have shot somebody, meaning another innocent child shot here in Chicago. I do not want concealed carry. (The person who shot my child is innocent? Or, I will shoot the another child in retribution, I don't care who?)

12. 5000 people were killed by guns last year, 16 people a day. I am AGAINST concealed c14. My daughter was shot, and just grazed, at 4 years old. at 14 she was shot dead. I bought a gun, went through the training and the foid, and when I heard someone come in, I fumbled trying to load it and shot the floor. That's when I realized that I could have shot my kids. I do NOT want concealed carry. (If I can't do this right I don't think anyone should; therefore, I want self-defense unlawful to discourage the potential that others that are unfamiliar or incompetent with firearms from getting them.)

A big thanks to all those 2A supporters and organizers that participated.

i am at a loss for words after reading this....

[mikew]

What Colleen and Todd said: +1

Yes, in attendance in the audience were
Colleen Daley, Executive Director of ICHV, and Mark Walsh, ICPGV.
She seemed somewhat cheery upon entering they bantered with Todd,
but they can't have left with a warm fuzzy feeling.

Evans and Vander Berk are both driven by tragedy,
but Vander Berk's message is tired,
all he can do is talk about gun registration as a magic button that will make everything better.

Poor Evans, he was in a "fish in a barrel" situation.
But, the answer is not more barrels.

The other side brought some victims to go up to speak, like Ms Holt.

Our side had some people show up & speak that were already known to me from in Chicago,
like Mr. Horne (IGOLD, FNRA, and BWE) and Mr Malik (NEIU), and some surprises like the man with police in the family who talked about strong parenting as well as being known as the BA in the block.

[Federal Farmer]

Tvandermyde, on 01 September 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Garret is a sincere individual. I think he had a life altering event. We spoke after the meeting and he thinks you should simply wear the "armor of God" and travel light. talked about how the bullet passed through both legs without hitting bone, or arteries or expanding. That it was a miracle. Ok I buy that.

Garrett simply doesn't believe in self-defense.  Period.  [He is one of the folks that hid behind a desk while his classmates were shot.  He or someone else reported cowering behind a desk, listening to Cho reload.]

He is not alone in that belief.  Before you can discuss RTC with folks you have to be on the same page regarding self-defense.  If someone does not believe in self-defense, you can't get anywhere discussing armed self-defense.

This belief is even more dangerous than fear of guns or self-control, which is the other forms of opposition we face.

[pyre400]

I too think Garret's heart is good. Unlike some of the other antis, I have respect for Garret, and I like him. I think his passive approach should be one that he as an individual can take, but unfortunately, for it to be effective, it requires 100% cooperation from everyone else in society (including criminals). It is more likely that he will achieve better results by taking an active approach to his personal defense. As Todd pointed out, if God offers you opportunity, you have to recognize it, and then take advantage.

A great big thank you to all who represented us. Fantastic job, and thank you to Representative Ford. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this topic, it made my day!

[mikew]

lockman, on 01 September 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

Is this what they are really saying?

Quote

8. My child was shot last year. I could not tell for certain who shot him. But if I had had a gun, I would have shot somebody, meaning another innocent child shot here in Chicago. I do not want concealed carry. (The person who shot my child is innocent? Or, I will shoot the another child in retribution, I don't care who?)

12. 5000 people were killed by guns last year, 16 people a day. I am AGAINST concealed c14. My daughter was shot, and just grazed, at 4 years old. at 14 she was shot dead. I bought a gun, went through the training and the foid, and when I heard someone come in, I fumbled trying to load it and shot the floor. That's when I realized that I could have shot my kids. I do NOT want concealed carry. (If I can't do this right I don't think anyone should; therefore, I want self-defense unlawful to discourage the potential that others that are unfamiliar or incompetent with firearms from getting them.)

Yes, they really said that.  On #12, that's the Reader's Digest version.  She would not stop, and LSK Ford had to go over and assist the microphone handler in gently getting her to give someone else a turn at bat.