Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:
We WON!!!
congrats... so what are SKS's registrable, or do they not get to pick and choose what they want to register on there whim?
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Lawson v Chicago - Mayhem edition
Started by
Federal Farmer
, Aug 02 2011 11:02 PM
93 replies to this topic
#31
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:48 PM
congrats... so what are SKS's registrable, or do they not get to pick and choose what they want to register on there whim?
"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." (Winston Churchill).
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." (Winston Churchill).
#33
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David Lawson
Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:09 PM
Quote
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
#34
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:09 PM
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:
We WON!!!
...and justice for all
#35
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:14 PM
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 02:09 PM, said:
Fantastic! Good work folks.
So the legal fees will be paid for by the city as well, right? Sorry if the answer is in the link, going there now.
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#36
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Tim Bowyer
Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:15 PM
Congrats FF!!
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!
The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams
Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB
#37
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David Lawson
Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:15 PM
It also basically tells the city that they cannot deny a firearm because it can be modified into an illegal configuration, which is the real answer I was looking for.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
#38
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:17 PM
Congrats! Hopefully you'll get your extorted money back when and if SAF/NRA decide the whole process is unconstitutional in the first place.
NRA / ISRA
#39
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:24 PM
Fantastic! 
#40
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:26 PM
Congrats!!! Way to go!!!
#41
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:29 PM
Thats great! now how about an AR with a california bullet button!
#42
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:30 PM
NICE JOB. Thanks for sticking your neck out again!
#43
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:32 PM
Ditto on the congrats! 
#46
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:40 PM
Another WIN and another brick in the wall comes tumblin' down!!
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams
#47
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:40 PM
Great job to all involved!
#48
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:43 PM
Mick dumke will be pleased to hear this . Isn't it an SKS that king Richie threatened to shove up his rear?
#49
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David Lawson
Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:45 PM
Here is the text of the PDF.
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Decision
This matter having been heard on the remand order of Judge Patrick T. Rogers, entered on June 24, 2011, in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois, Municipal Department-First District. All parties having been heard by the Administrative Law Judge concerning the denial of firearms registration certifications under the Municipal Code of Chicago, Chapters 2-84, et. Seq. and 8-20, et seq.. It is the findings of this Court:
1. On June 24, 2011, Judge Patrick T. Rogers remanded this matter to the City of Chicago Department of Administrative Hearings and ordered "for both the plaintiff and the City to provide additional evidence as to whether the four firearms are prohibited under the City ordinance. The Court further orders that plaintiff be permitted to bring the four firearms to the hearing for the purpose of providing evidence".
2. On August 2, 2011, a full hearing was conducted and the City of Chicago presented testimony from Sergeant Stanley Petraitis and Police Officer Biggins from the Chicago Police Department Gun Registration Division. Applicant, David Lawson, presented evidence testimony from Andre Queen, Fidelity Investigative Training Academy.
3. The subject rifles: SKS Rifle serial # 1703531, SKS Rifle serial # 2203167, SKS Rifle serial # 3H1539 and SKS Rifle FE1596-1958 were presented in open court and available to the parties witnesses for inspection and examination. The City objected to the presence of the rifles and the City witnesses declined to examine the subject rifles. City's objection was overruled.
4. Sgt. Petraitis testified for the City that based upon his review of the Application for Firearm Registration filed by David Lawson on or about August 31, 2010, there was no indication that the subject rifles were modified from the fixed magazine position. David Lawson's testimony is unrebbuted that the weapons, and the fixed magazine platform, are in the same condition as when he purchased the rifles, when he applied for the registration and at the time of the hearing.
5. The undisputed fact is the subject rifles are over seventy years old and there have been no alteration or modifications from the original design. David W. Lawson is licensed by the Department of Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms as a Collector of Curios and Relics.
6. The City witness, Officer Biggins, contends that the subject rifles have the capability of accepting a detachable magazine with a flick of a sharp object or a bullet without structural changes to the weapon. Officer Biggins testified that "the process" does not allow him to demonstrate this potential alteration to the subject weapons.
7. Sections 8-20-190 and 8-20-205 of the Municipal Code of Chicago, provides for the procedures for denials and revocation, inter alia, "A registration certificate shall be revoked (1) when the firearm becomes an unregisterable firearm;" or "if, in the determination of the superintendent, a CFP or registration certificate should be revoked,". That is the City's recourse in the event there was a modification or alteration to the subject weapons.
8. It is the finding of this Administrative Law Judge, based upon the testimony of all the witness' and the examination of the subject rifles by the applicant, David Lawson's witness, Andre Queen, the subject rifles did not have the ability to accept a detachable magazine in the condition in which the weapons existed at the time of the application process nor at the time of this hearing.
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
The Denial by the Chicago Police Department of David Lawson's registration of the subject four SKS Rifles is REVERSED. The subject rifles are not prohibited under the Municipal Code of Chicago, 8-20-170, and therefore, registration certification shall issue accordingly. Pursuant to Section 2-14-102 of the Chicago Municipal Code, this decision is final and subject to review under the Illinois Administrative Review Act.
This matter having been heard on the remand order of Judge Patrick T. Rogers, entered on June 24, 2011, in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois, Municipal Department-First District. All parties having been heard by the Administrative Law Judge concerning the denial of firearms registration certifications under the Municipal Code of Chicago, Chapters 2-84, et. Seq. and 8-20, et seq.. It is the findings of this Court:
1. On June 24, 2011, Judge Patrick T. Rogers remanded this matter to the City of Chicago Department of Administrative Hearings and ordered "for both the plaintiff and the City to provide additional evidence as to whether the four firearms are prohibited under the City ordinance. The Court further orders that plaintiff be permitted to bring the four firearms to the hearing for the purpose of providing evidence".
2. On August 2, 2011, a full hearing was conducted and the City of Chicago presented testimony from Sergeant Stanley Petraitis and Police Officer Biggins from the Chicago Police Department Gun Registration Division. Applicant, David Lawson, presented evidence testimony from Andre Queen, Fidelity Investigative Training Academy.
3. The subject rifles: SKS Rifle serial # 1703531, SKS Rifle serial # 2203167, SKS Rifle serial # 3H1539 and SKS Rifle FE1596-1958 were presented in open court and available to the parties witnesses for inspection and examination. The City objected to the presence of the rifles and the City witnesses declined to examine the subject rifles. City's objection was overruled.
4. Sgt. Petraitis testified for the City that based upon his review of the Application for Firearm Registration filed by David Lawson on or about August 31, 2010, there was no indication that the subject rifles were modified from the fixed magazine position. David Lawson's testimony is unrebbuted that the weapons, and the fixed magazine platform, are in the same condition as when he purchased the rifles, when he applied for the registration and at the time of the hearing.
5. The undisputed fact is the subject rifles are over seventy years old and there have been no alteration or modifications from the original design. David W. Lawson is licensed by the Department of Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms as a Collector of Curios and Relics.
6. The City witness, Officer Biggins, contends that the subject rifles have the capability of accepting a detachable magazine with a flick of a sharp object or a bullet without structural changes to the weapon. Officer Biggins testified that "the process" does not allow him to demonstrate this potential alteration to the subject weapons.
7. Sections 8-20-190 and 8-20-205 of the Municipal Code of Chicago, provides for the procedures for denials and revocation, inter alia, "A registration certificate shall be revoked (1) when the firearm becomes an unregisterable firearm;" or "if, in the determination of the superintendent, a CFP or registration certificate should be revoked,". That is the City's recourse in the event there was a modification or alteration to the subject weapons.
8. It is the finding of this Administrative Law Judge, based upon the testimony of all the witness' and the examination of the subject rifles by the applicant, David Lawson's witness, Andre Queen, the subject rifles did not have the ability to accept a detachable magazine in the condition in which the weapons existed at the time of the application process nor at the time of this hearing.
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
The Denial by the Chicago Police Department of David Lawson's registration of the subject four SKS Rifles is REVERSED. The subject rifles are not prohibited under the Municipal Code of Chicago, 8-20-170, and therefore, registration certification shall issue accordingly. Pursuant to Section 2-14-102 of the Chicago Municipal Code, this decision is final and subject to review under the Illinois Administrative Review Act.
Quote
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
#50
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:47 PM
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:
We WON!!!
excellent! congratulations.
Looks like the slippery slope is going our direction for a change. Looking forward to reading the written opinion of the judge.
I almost bought a Chinese SKS type 56 a few weeks ago. Prolly should have. But NOBODY needs 4 SKS rifles, whatchya tryin' to do, start WW 3 ?
Howard Roark
Yay guns!!! boooo anti-gunners!
Yay guns!!! boooo anti-gunners!
#51
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David Lawson
Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:50 PM
Howard Roark, on 05 August 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:
We WON!!!
excellent! congratulations.
Looks like the slippery slope is going our direction for a change. Looking forward to reading the written opinion of the judge.
I almost bought a Chinese SKS type 56 a few weeks ago. Prolly should have. But NOBODY needs 4 SKS rifles, whatchya tryin' to do, start WW 3 ?
I'm missing several from my collection, such as Albanian, Yugoslavian, East German, etc.
Quote
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
#52
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:57 PM
Yas, on 05 August 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:
Thats great! now how about an AR with a california bullet button!
How about an AR like the people in the rest of the state can own! Fooy on the special button!!!!
#53
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:03 PM
Howard Roark, on 05 August 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:
We WON!!!
I almost bought a Chinese SKS type 56 a few weeks ago. Prolly should have. But NOBODY needs 4 SKS rifles, whatchya tryin' to do, start WW 3 ?
#54
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:06 PM
Chicago leaders are stupid.
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.
Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt
Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.
Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt
Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.
#55
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Natural Born Infidel
Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:11 PM
Out friggin standing!
Just another of what will hopefully (and likely?) be a long string of victories for the good guys over the forces of tyranny and despotism.
Bravo David.
john
Just another of what will hopefully (and likely?) be a long string of victories for the good guys over the forces of tyranny and despotism.
Bravo David.
john
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Guns Save Life meets the second Tuesday of each month at the Knights of Columbus in Rantoul, IL. Ask me how to get there! It's a great time. Join Guns Save Life today for some great benefits!
GSL Defense Training provides NRA Personal Protection in the Home courses that satisfy the training requirement for a Florida non-resident License to Carry, as well as intermediate-level pistol training and training in the use of Urban Rifles.
#56
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:12 PM
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:
I'm missing several from my collection, such as Albanian, Yugoslavian, East German, etc.
Send your ruling to Brian at Ames and see if he'll offer a celebratory discount. He might be interested in the ruling anyway:
http://www.aimsurplu...?item=F3YugoSKS
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#57
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:26 PM
Congratulations on your work. This is good news that the Chicago was forced to follow at least their own rules, after so many years of basically just doing what they want.
#58
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:29 PM
Federal Farmer, on 05 August 2011 - 02:09 PM, said:
Just wondering, but what about a SKS w/bayonet?
Wouldn't Cook Co. ban still cover that, or would Chicago's home rule trump it?
When You Come For Mine, You Better Bring Yours.
#59
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:31 PM
papa, on 05 August 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:
Yas, on 05 August 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:
Thats great! now how about an AR with a california bullet button!
How about an AR like the people in the rest of the state can own! Fooy on the special button!!!!
Haven't you learned anything from those pesky Brady's yet ? Death by a thousand cuts...... One step at a time.
The only thing a C®ook County politician recognizes anymore is a political donation to their campaign or a lawsuit. And the lawsuits are getting their attention finally.
#60
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:33 PM
Yas, on 05 August 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:
Thats great! now how about an AR with a california bullet button!
+1
& Way to go FF!!!
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698
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