05FLHT Posted April 4, 2011 at 08:41 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 08:41 PM As posted by Krucam on MDS - Orals were held today by the 7th. Link to audio - http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?dname=arg (click on today, otherwise look up by case# 10-3525). A very good listen. The court gave Gura a hard time. Chicago got grilled, hard.
ChiShooter Posted April 4, 2011 at 09:49 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 09:49 PM Still listening, but it's a great post !!! I've been looking forward to finally hearing some updates on this.
Bob1911 Posted April 4, 2011 at 09:52 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 09:52 PM As posted by Krucam on MDS - Orals were held today by the 7th. Link to audio - http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?dname=arg (click on today, otherwise look up by case# 10-3525). A very good listen. The court gave Gura a hard time. Chicago got grilled, hard. It seemed that the Judges see right through Chitcago's arguments. The "nice" sounding judge was on Gura's "same page." I especially liked her interruption when she asked "what do you want your injunction to say?" I am hopefull that there may be a favorable opinion w/o waiting for SCOTUS.
ming Posted April 4, 2011 at 10:08 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 10:08 PM As posted by Krucam on MDS - Orals were held today by the 7th. Link to audio - http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?dname=arg (click on today, otherwise look up by case# 10-3525). A very good listen. The court gave Gura a hard time. Chicago got grilled, hard. Agreed. Very interesting.
ChiShooter Posted April 4, 2011 at 10:50 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 10:50 PM Just finished listening to the whole thing. I'd have to agree with Bob1911 - it does seem like it could happen without going to the supreme court.
Sigma Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:31 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:31 PM WAIT A MINUTE!!! Did you hear what he said at 39:00He said the city recognizes that they have the right to "keep" and "Bear" Arms We need his idea of what bear means then compare it to Heller. So glad SAF will win this case, and get the injunction. I wonder if this is Daley's best lawyer.
05FLHT Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:44 PM Author Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:44 PM I wonder if this is Daley's best lawyer. I believe his last name is Feldman and I think he is a professor at Georgetown. He is the hired gun brought in by Chicago. It's hard to do a good job when you aren't left with much to work with. This one looks good. Really good. ETA - James Feldman - Info again courtesy of Krucam on MDS. Released today by Appellees City of Chicago. - They're changing Atty's. Previous one was having a hard time making deadlines...- They'll file as scheduled their brief tomorrow, 2/18.- The new Atty representing is a Mr James Feldman (more on this later)- Mr Feldman teaches at Georgetown, lives in DC. He needs almost the whole month of April off, so don't schedule Oral Arguments (what?) then. Feldman is a heavy weight. I don't know if this indicates concern on the part of Chicago, or a steadfast desire to not lose again...I'm leaning towards the latter. See attached, there's much to read between the lines. Chicago is cracking me up tonight on many levels...17 - Chicago Atty Shuffle.pdf
Elderberry Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:45 PM Posted April 4, 2011 at 11:45 PM WAIT A MINUTE!!! Did you hear what he said at 39:00He said the city recognizes that they have the right to "keep" and "Bear" ArmsWe need his idea of what bear means then compare it to Heller. So glad SAF will win this case, and get the injunction. I wonder if this is Daley's best lawyer. He only said they recognize it. He didn't say the city of Chicago intends to honor it, uphold it, stop violating it, or facilitate it. The only way Chicago will ever honor the rights of their citizens is if they are forced to and that will probably mean dragging them there one law suit at a time... Remember, these are the same arrogant knot-heads who think the rest of the state exists for their benefit...
Sigma Posted April 5, 2011 at 12:00 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 12:00 AM She said she cant believe you would stand here with a straight face...Wow!Well this guy is an idiot. He argues that ranges are unsafe because people stand outside and an argument could result in a shoot out?But then admits he has never been to a range in his life! How can you take a gun range case and never even stop by one to collect evidence for your argument. Thats like him being a criminal defense and never visiting the crime scene or collecting any evidence.Once again 100% pure emotion.
GarandFan Posted April 5, 2011 at 12:58 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 12:58 AM Who was that woman, questioning Feldman? She used a first amendment analogy, supposing that Chicago chose to mandate licensure for journalists, and then banned any training in the city, arguing that one could simply go to Evanston for the training. What did he say in response? ... Something like "that's not a very good analogy, because there would be a constitutionality question on whether Chicago could even mandate licensing of journalists in the first place. Wow. He must have felt pretty stupid after saying that. Frankly, I love to see these anti-gun Chicago ******** flustered and on the run. Their arguments, in today's post-Heller and McDonald world, sound increasingly absurd.
Davey Posted April 5, 2011 at 02:10 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 02:10 AM Thank you so much for pointing out this link. Listening to it now at work. I skipped over much of this thread as to avoid any spoilers. Heh.
Davey Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:01 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:01 AM OMG TOTAL WIN at 31:40! Further win at 32:35
Howard Roark Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:52 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:52 AM There is no way Chicago is going to appeal their [likely] loss! This is not going to the Supreme Court. It's going to be reversed. I like it, it is full of win. Gura's points about needing gun ranges in crime-ridden neighrboohs, as well as the Chi Gold-Coast was awesome. I listened to all 50+ minutes, it's awesome if you like this sort of thing and you should.
pyre400 Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:57 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:57 AM LOL Thoroughly entertaining... ETA: Who was that woman, questioning Feldman? I think that was Judge Diane Sykes - Apparently she was once married to Charlie Sykes (Charlie has a conservative radio show on 620 WTMJ that I had enjoyed listening to when I spent more time commuting) I did enjoy listening to her grill Feldman
Howard Roark Posted April 5, 2011 at 05:09 AM Posted April 5, 2011 at 05:09 AM WAIT A MINUTE!!! Did you hear what he said at 39:00He said the city recognizes that they have the right to "keep" and "Bear" Arms We need his idea of what bear means then compare it to Heller. So glad SAF will win this case, and get the injunction. I wonder if this is Daley's best lawyer. He messed up. That Feldman would want a fix-it, do-over. He would say there is no right to bear/carry except in the home, not including the garage or porch (per Chicago decree). He's going to have to switch sides if he wants a good future legal career.
Tvandermyde Posted April 5, 2011 at 02:09 PM Posted April 5, 2011 at 02:09 PM skip gura go straight to 17:00 and listen to the city. this panel is not buying the city's part. to much going through my head on this but I think the city is going to get hammered. I wish they had attacked the CFP range requirement as part of the case and get that suspended as weluit he l. But the city brought in a hired gun who didn't know his a** from applebutter. didn't care for Gura getting the one judge mad, but he recovers. good closing but he misses the point that the judge was leading towards making it cost prohibitive by zoning only for the goldcoast. my fear now is that Posner and Easterbrook will try to screw with a good decision enbanc
Drylok Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:35 PM Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:35 PM skip gura go straight to 17:00 and listen to the city. this panel is not buying the city's part. to much going through my head on this but I think the city is going to get hammered. I wish they had attacked the CFP range requirement as part of the case and get that suspended as weluit he l. But the city brought in a hired gun who didn't know his a** from applebutter. didn't care for Gura getting the one judge mad, but he recovers. good closing but he misses the point that the judge was leading towards making it cost prohibitive by zoning only for the goldcoast. my fear now is that Posner and Easterbrook will try to screw with a good decision enbanc Boy she really pours it to him. "The city ordinance mandates firearm training in order to execise the right and at the same time bans training facilities"
Drylok Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:45 PM Posted April 5, 2011 at 03:45 PM ha ha Judge-You ban firing ranges outside the city limits if you had the jurisdiction
Skorpius Posted April 5, 2011 at 06:22 PM Posted April 5, 2011 at 06:22 PM If HB0003 passes, this would all be moot.
Sigma Posted April 5, 2011 at 09:03 PM Posted April 5, 2011 at 09:03 PM Im sure Daley has some zoning tricks up his sleeve, oh what daley is outta here in a few more weeks.
templar223 Posted April 6, 2011 at 03:48 AM Posted April 6, 2011 at 03:48 AM That was so sweet that I need to go brush my teeth before my teeth rot. Listening to that idiot lawyer for Chicago being sliced and diced by the justices as he tried to b.s. them. OMG. I thought he was going to cry a couple of times when he was stammering and stuttering like an idiot. They are toast in this case. John
Tvandermyde Posted April 6, 2011 at 04:09 PM Posted April 6, 2011 at 04:09 PM Unbelieveable. I only wish Gura had sought a stay of the training requirement on top ofthe range injunction as icing on the cake Those judges look like they saw right through what the city was trying to do. Gura just didnt pick up on what the one judge was trying to hint at that the city could create zoning that made it to expensive to operate a range My only fear is that posner or eaterbrook grab a good decision and take it enbanc to try and muck it up
templar223 Posted April 6, 2011 at 04:29 PM Posted April 6, 2011 at 04:29 PM Unbelieveable. I only wish Gura had sought a stay of the training requirement on top ofthe range injunction as icing on the cake "Counselor, what would you like the order to say?" Christ, she asked him how he wanted it! And I'm sure she was going to grant it too. John
Beezil Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:02 AM Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:02 AM I am sitting here listening to this and I'm having trouble typing because my jaw has fallen on top of the keyboard. I simply cannot believe this dialog. this is unreal. I urge anyone reading this thread to take the time to listen to this audio. tide has turned.
Beezil Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:31 AM Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:31 AM also.... can someone with better speakers than the ones i have on this little laptop please tell me what the judge said at the end (around - 0:20) that provided the greatest comic relief? Something to the effect of the people living in the gold coast area..... thanks!
Skorpius Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:28 AM Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:28 AM It's a hapless boob slapdown! She said, "In the Gold Coast, the people that would like the range are at this very moment trying to decide between divorce and murder."
nocaster Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:38 PM Posted April 7, 2011 at 01:38 PM I listened to the whole thing yesterday. Gura was clearly a lot better prepared and able to think on his feet. I almost sympathize with the city attorney, as he had to argue a ridiculous position without any factual support.
Beezil Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:11 PM Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:11 PM Feldman didn't do well arguing McDonald, why do you suppose Chicago employed Fledman's services to argue this one?
pyre400 Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:29 PM Posted April 7, 2011 at 02:29 PM Feldman didn't do well arguing McDonald, why do you suppose Chicago employed Fledman's services to argue this one? They got lucky - the same lawyer was in 2 different crackerjack boxes. http://www.nationwidecandy.com/mmCANDY/Images/SP990893-Cracker%20Jack%20In%20Boxes-small.jpg
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