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Kadner: State may be ready for concealed carry


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#1 oneshot

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:14 PM

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Kadner: State may be ready for concealed carry

Phil Kadner

pkadner@southtownstar.com | (708) 633-6787



Last Modified: Mar 25, 2011 04:24AM



Illinois is closer to passing a concealed-carry gun law than ever before, according to pro-gun lobbyists and others.

I wish I could tell you in one clear sentence what I think about this idea. But I don't feel like I fall neatly into the pro-gun or anti-gun camps.

And the more I learn about the proposed law, the more confused I become.

In past columns, I explained how I came to change my anti-gun views.

Two women called me in a period of a week pleading for help. They felt threatened by an ex-husband, in one case, and former boyfriend in another.

The women, who lived in two different south suburbs, each had called their local police departments and been told the same thing. If it was my sister or my mother in your situation, the police said, I would tell them to get a gun.

I confirmed with police that the potential danger to these women was real, that they had contacted police and, although restraining orders had been issued in each case, there was nothing that the police could do for them until something happened.

Listening to the fear in the voices of these women, especially one who had two young children, I decided I could never again in good conscience support gun bans.

Taking that a step further, logic dictates supporting the concealed-carry bill in the state House (H.B. 148), also known as the Family and Personal Protection Act.

Forty-eight of the 50 states have concealed-carry laws. The exceptions are Illinois and Wisconsin, and Wisconsin apparently has open carry.

That would seem to mean that you can wear a holster on your waist with a gun in it, so long as your jacket didn't hide the weapon.

But the law prohibits anyone from carrying a gun in such a manner that it would reasonably "alarm" or "terrify" another person. And you can't carry a loaded firearm on the seat next to you in a car.

So open carry isn't as open as it sounds.

Orland Park Police Chief Timothy McCarthy, a former Secret Service agent shot in the line of duty while protecting President Ronald Reagan, said he is against the concealed-carry law. He said it has nothing to do with being a shooting victim, but everything to do with the proliferation of guns.

"You won't be able to carry guns into schools, courtrooms, or village board meetings or the state Capitol or any place that sells liquor, and I'm sure you won't be allowed to have guns in sports stadiums," McCarthy said.

"So what are people going to do with their guns if this bill is passed? They're going to have to leave them in their cars, and I don't think that's the best place to store a loaded weapon. We're going to see more reports of stolen guns from cars.

"Also, as a police officer, I'm concerned about people having guns in their cars when police officers make what appears to be a routine traffic stop.

"I understand there are statistics that suggest crime goes down in states with concealed-carry laws, but I have conflicting thoughts about this and my primary thought is that anything we can do to limit the proliferation of guns is a good thing."

Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois Rifle Association, said crime against the elderly dropped 75 percent in Florida after it passed concealed carry.

He noted that the Illinois law would require FBI background checks and fingerprint checks and for county sheriffs to approve all concealed-carry permits.

"We're still working on fine-tuning the bill," Pearson said when I asked him about its chance of passing, "and nobody can say what the Illinois Legislature is going to do."

Yet, the association has listed Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) as a likely "yes" vote on the bill.

"He might possibly vote 'yes,' but I don't know how he will vote," Pearson said.

"I expect Madigan to call for a super-majority vote to pass the bill," he added, when I asked if the measure would require such support because some of its provisions would negate the home-rule authority of municipalities.

So Madigan may support the bill but make it almost impossible for it to pass.

"Chicago opposes this bill," Pearson said. "And this is the state of Illinois, so I'm making no predictions."

A person seeking a concealed-carry permit would have to go through a weapons training class, complete a written exam and demonstrate proficiency in marksmanship.

McCarthy questioned whether the eight hours of training would be sufficient.

People are allowed to have guns in their homes now, however, without any training.

The law as written prohibits ordinary folks from carrying guns into any meeting of the Legislature, but lawmakers and "registered lobbyists" with permits could do so.

If lawmakers really believe concealed carry makes the state safer, why don't they trust us with guns in the Capitol?


Copyright 2011 Sun-Times Media, LLC


Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698


#2 GarandFan

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:39 PM

Orland Park Police Chief Timothy McCarthy ... is against the concealed-carry law. ...

"You won't be able to carry guns into schools, courtrooms, or village board meetings or the state Capitol or any place that sells liquor, and I'm sure you won't be allowed to have guns in sports stadiums," McCarthy said. "So what are people going to do with their guns if this bill is passed? They're going to have to leave them in their cars, and I don't think that's the best place to store a loaded weapon. We're going to see more reports of stolen guns from cars."



I have a solution to allay this particular concern ...
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
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#3 Hatchet

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:49 PM

madigan as yes... oh how i so hope that this is true...

and GarandFan... i think we are all on the same thought line there lol
"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."
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#4 lockman

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:57 PM

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Kadner: State may be ready for concealed carry

Phil Kadner

pkadner@southtownstar.com | (708) 633-6787



Last Modified: Mar 25, 2011 04:24AM

......

Orland Park Police Chief Timothy McCarthy, a former Secret Service agent shot in the line of duty while protecting President Ronald Reagan, said he is against the concealed-carry law. He said it has nothing to do with being a shooting victim, but everything to do with the proliferation of guns. [Those guns your citizens have a fundamental right to use for self-defense]

"You won't be able to carry guns into schools, courtrooms, or village board meetings or the state Capitol or any place that sells liquor, and I'm sure you won't be allowed to have guns in sports stadiums," McCarthy said.

"So what are people going to do with their guns if this bill is passed? They're going to have to leave them in their cars, and I don't think that's the best place to store a loaded weapon. We're going to see more reports of stolen guns from cars. [I agree, so don't insist on all the "gun free zones" and the people carrying will be less likely to leave their guns unattended at your insistence]

"Also, as a police officer, I'm concerned about people having guns in their cars when police officers make what appears to be a routine traffic stop. [So, officer safety trumps the safety of those the officers are "sworn" to protect, even if it is irrational]

"I understand there are statistics that suggest crime goes down in states with concealed-carry laws, but I have conflicting thoughts about this and my primary thought is that anything we can do to limit the proliferation of guns is a good thing." [the person carrying certainly has more defensive choices]

Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois Rifle Association, said crime against the elderly dropped 75 percent in Florida after it passed concealed carry. [Amen]

He noted that the Illinois law would require FBI background checks and fingerprint checks and for county sheriffs to approve all concealed-carry permits. [Still shall-issue]

"We're still working on fine-tuning the bill," Pearson said when I asked him about its chance of passing, "and nobody can say what the Illinois Legislature is going to do."

Yet, the association has listed Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) as a likely "yes" vote on the bill. [How about joining as a co-sponsor?]

"He might possibly vote 'yes,' but I don't know how he will vote," Pearson said.

"I expect Madigan to call for a super-majority vote to pass the bill," he added, when I asked if the measure would require such support because some of its provisions would negate the home-rule authority of municipalities. [That's a given based on his past decisions]

So Madigan may support the bill but make it almost impossible for it to pass.

"Chicago opposes this bill," Pearson said. "And this is the state of Illinois, so I'm making no predictions."

A person seeking a concealed-carry permit would have to go through a weapons training class, complete a written exam and demonstrate proficiency in marksmanship.

McCarthy questioned whether the eight hours of training would be sufficient. [Does he expect they will be given arrest powers and will patrol the streets and issue tickets? 400 hours enough for ya?]

People are allowed to have guns in their homes now, however, without any training.

The law as written prohibits ordinary folks from carrying guns into any meeting of the Legislature, but lawmakers and "registered lobbyists" with permits could do so. [reserved]

If lawmakers really believe concealed carry makes the state safer, why don't they trust us with guns in the Capitol? [No disagreement here]


Copyright © 2011 — Sun-Times Media, LLC


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#5 Drylok

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 01:29 PM

Has the number of guns being stolen out of vehicles gone up in Ohio since they passed cc a few years ago? How about the other 47 states where there is ccw but not in public schools?
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
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Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
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#6 BigJim

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:21 AM

Has the number of guns being stolen out of vehicles gone up in Ohio since they passed cc a few years ago? How about the other 47 states where there is ccw but not in public schools?

That's the primary reason I don't plaster pro-gun stickers all over my vehicle. Why should I tell a would be criminal that there's a good chance there is a gun in my truck while its unattended?
Big Jim
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I will not be controlled
And I will not let my future go on,
without the help of my soul

The Lost Boy - Greg Holden

#7 Beezil

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:27 AM


Has the number of guns being stolen out of vehicles gone up in Ohio since they passed cc a few years ago? How about the other 47 states where there is ccw but not in public schools?

That's the primary reason I don't plaster pro-gun stickers all over my vehicle. Why should I tell a would be criminal that there's a good chance there is a gun in my truck while its unattended?



Yep. me too.

I had ISRA and NRA and a couple hunting themed ones on my last ride, but that's when I only occasionally transported firearms, mostly during hunting trips.

But now, with 6 concealed carry permits in my wallet, and travelling with firearms more, i prefer "stealth mode"

#8 Buzzard

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:52 AM

edited.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 12:59 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#9 Jeffrey

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:18 AM

edited.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 01:00 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .

...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#10 Buzzard

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:33 AM

edited.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 01:02 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#11 Yas

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:43 AM

Orland Park Police Chief Timothy McCarthy ... is against the concealed-carry law. ...

"You won't be able to carry guns into schools, courtrooms, or village board meetings or the state Capitol or any place that sells liquor, and I'm sure you won't be allowed to have guns in sports stadiums," McCarthy said. "So what are people going to do with their guns if this bill is passed? They're going to have to leave them in their cars, and I don't think that's the best place to store a loaded weapon. We're going to see more reports of stolen guns from cars."



I have a solution to allay this particular concern ...

Yet The former Orland Park police chief before McCarthy, Melvin "Duke" Gorris had a FFL and sold firearms to the law abiding public. In the mall no less.

#12 Jeffrey

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:44 AM

edited.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 01:03 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .

...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#13 Buzzard

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:03 AM

edited.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 01:03 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#14 Chad

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:11 AM

edit.

Edited by Molly B., 29 March 2011 - 01:04 PM.
Off topic - gentlemen, please maintain the focus here . . .


#15 junglebob

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:16 AM



Has the number of guns being stolen out of vehicles gone up in Ohio since they passed cc a few years ago? How about the other 47 states where there is ccw but not in public schools?

That's the primary reason I don't plaster pro-gun stickers all over my vehicle. Why should I tell a would be criminal that there's a good chance there is a gun in my truck while its unattended?



Yep. me too.

I had ISRA and NRA and a couple hunting themed ones on my last ride, but that's when I only occasionally transported firearms, mostly during hunting trips.

But now, with 6 concealed carry permits in my wallet, and travelling with firearms more, i prefer "stealth mode"


Wow, 6 LTC in your wallet. Where are they all from? Is that a record for Illinoiscarry members?
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#16 Molly B.

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:06 PM

Wow, 6 LTC in your wallet. Where are they all from? Is that a record for Illinoiscarry members?

Before anyone replies - let's keep the thread on topic. Junglebob - this could be an interesting topic, mind starting a new thread?

Molly B.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams