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#31 Mr. Fife

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 01:06 PM

Fantastic! Posted Image

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#32 RandyP

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 01:29 PM

"the ban on gun ranges made it impossible to get a permit'

I respectfully disagree, as would all the other Chicagoans who found a way to get to a range and class and get their CFP and stay within the law. The ban on ranges DID make it more of a challenge for us. I drove out to Midwest in Lyons myself.

I would suggest that the high cost is more of a deterrent to following this stupid law than the range hardship. If you had the $$$$ you could always cab it to class.

#33 pyre400

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:00 PM

"the ban on gun ranges made it impossible to get a permit'

I respectfully disagree, as would all the other Chicagoans who found a way to get to a range and class and get their CFP and stay within the law. The ban on ranges DID make it more of a challenge for us. I drove out to Midwest in Lyons myself.

I would suggest that the high cost is more of a deterrent to following this stupid law than the range hardship. If you had the $$ you could always cab it to class.

If the city imposes the condition, it also must provide the means of compliance. Otherwise that's a ban...

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#34 Danielm60660

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:27 PM

Hot damn. Ezel has had practical implications in a real case.
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#35 ajduenas1

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:28 PM

story will be on fox chicago news tonight aftergame

#36 mauserme

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:37 PM

story will be on fox chicago news tonight aftergame

Awesome. Will there be an interview?
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

#37 JackTripper

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:41 PM

Added it to the tivo, with extra time in case the game goes over
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#38 Lou

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:56 PM

update 8-16-11 I won ! case dismissed pursuant to Ezell v. chicago !!!


Congratulations! I'm sure that it cost you quite a bit in legal fees and ulcer medication but your hard fought case will have positive implications in the future for all of us.

Good job!! :pinch:

I'll be looking forward to the Fox news tonight.

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#39 ajduenas1

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:33 PM


story will be on fox chicago news tonight aftergame

Awesome. Will there be an interview?

yes interview i hope dont look fat n stupid ! lol

#40 ajduenas1

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:38 PM

update 8-16-11 I won ! case dismissed pursuant to Ezell v. chicago !!!


Congratulations! I'm sure that it cost you quite a bit in legal fees and ulcer medication but your hard fought case will have positive implications in the future for all of us.

Good job!! :thumbsup:

I'll be looking forward to the Fox news tonight.

yes lots of money and sleepless nights but well worth it the city is not going to push me around !

#41 mauserme

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:59 PM



story will be on fox chicago news tonight aftergame

Awesome. Will there be an interview?

yes interview i hope dont look fat n stupid ! lol



Nah - you'll do fine.
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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Link to Livestream Blueroom Events Page

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

#42 NakPPI

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:52 PM


"the ban on gun ranges made it impossible to get a permit'

I respectfully disagree, as would all the other Chicagoans who found a way to get to a range and class and get their CFP and stay within the law. The ban on ranges DID make it more of a challenge for us. I drove out to Midwest in Lyons myself.

I would suggest that the high cost is more of a deterrent to following this stupid law than the range hardship. If you had the $$ you could always cab it to class.

If the city imposes the condition, it also must provide the means of compliance. Otherwise that's a ban...


Travel is not the nature of the harm. Burden on the right of armed defense is the harm.

Listen to Judge Sykes destroy the City attorney at 18 though 22 minute marks in regards to "travel" she really explains it best. See the link below.


Ezell Oral Argument
Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#43 ajduenas1

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:59 PM



"the ban on gun ranges made it impossible to get a permit'

I respectfully disagree, as would all the other Chicagoans who found a way to get to a range and class and get their CFP and stay within the law. The ban on ranges DID make it more of a challenge for us. I drove out to Midwest in Lyons myself.

I would suggest that the high cost is more of a deterrent to following this stupid law than the range hardship. If you had the $$ you could always cab it to class.

If the city imposes the condition, it also must provide the means of compliance. Otherwise that's a ban...


Travel is not the nature of the harm. Burden on the right of armed defense is the harm.

Listen to Judge Sykes destroy the City attorney at 18 though 22 minute marks in regards to "travel" she really explains it best. See the link below.

yes thats what the judge tried to explain to the city attorney on my case today !
Ezell Oral Argument



#44 NakPPI

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:15 PM

Travel is not the nature of the harm. Burden on the right of armed defense is the harm.

Listen to Judge Sykes destroy the City attorney at 18 though 22 minute marks in regards to "travel" she really explains it best. See the link below.



yes thats what the judge tried to explain to the city attorney on my case today !
Ezell Oral Argument


A good attorney would have listened to the oral arguments in a case involving the very statute that they were seeking to enforce. City attorneys like to think that they can't lose, even though they've been proven wrong multiple times lately and smacked down by Federal judges. I heard the preview on Fox Chicago, it sounds like the basis of the Judge's ruling in this case was that compliance with the municipal code is impossible because there are no ranges in the City. Basically, your Judge just announced that Chicago's CFP code is unenforceable until there is a gun range in the City...
Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#45 ajduenas1

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:20 PM

my attorney was toyin wit an idea for class action not sure if anyone would jump on board ? thank u

#46 mauserme

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 09:18 PM

They just ran the story. Nice job!
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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Link to Livestream Blueroom Events Page

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

#47 pyre400

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 09:20 PM

[quote name='NakPPI' date='19 August 2011 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1313805126' post='287618']
[quote name='pyre400' date='19 August 2011 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1313784035' post='287593']
[quote name='RandyP' date='19 August 2011 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1313782180' post='287591']
"the ban on gun ranges made it impossible to get a permit'

I respectfully disagree, as would all the other Chicagoans who found a way to get to a range and class and get their CFP and stay within the law. The ban on ranges DID make it more of a challenge for us. I drove out to Midwest in Lyons myself.

I would suggest that the high cost is more of a deterrent to following this stupid law than the range hardship. If you had the $ you could always cab it to class.
[/quote]
If the city imposes the condition, it also must provide the means of compliance. Otherwise that's a ban...
[/quote]

Travel is not the nature of the harm. Burden on the right of armed defense is the harm.

Listen to Judge Sykes destroy the City attorney at 18 though 22 minute marks in regards to "travel" she really explains it best. See the link below.


Ezell Oral Argument
[/quote]

Yes - it was epic!

You are right about the burden, but my post puts precision on what that burden was.

If you listen a little further 18:30 - 19:36, Sykes actually defines the burden for that poor defense attorney.

[quote name='Justice Sykes']
This is a ban! The city has, simultaneously, mandated live fire training as a condition for licensure, and prohibited it.
[/quote]

So basically Chicago imposes a condition on firearm ownership (license requirement) and then denies the ability to comply by prohibiting ranges. The net result is essentially a ban on firearms.

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#48 NakPPI

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 09:20 PM

They just ran the stroy. Nice job!


Very nice, except that the people that ran the story did no fact checking at all... People have obtained CFP's they're just few and far between due to the difficulty obtaining them. The ticket was dismissed, the "accused" now has a CFP and a FOID, the Chicago police department is just being belligerent by not returning the gun at this point. Now it's a 4th amendment violation on top of a 2nd amendment violation... If the law is unenforceable, as the judge basically said by dismissing the ticket, the police have to return the gun, there is no violation...
Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#49 xbaltzx

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:20 PM

LINK to story (VIDEO embedded on Page)

#50 pyre400

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:51 PM

LINK to story (VIDEO embedded on Page)


Thanks - love it.

You did great ajduenas1!

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#51 ming

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:02 AM

Great job Jesus! :thumbsup:
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#52 GarandFan

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:33 AM

LINK to story (VIDEO embedded on Page)


It's a joy to see this video. Jesus, you did great, and so did your attorney. At another level, it's very heartening to see both newscasters appear to be so sympathetic (talking of Chicago putting roadblocks, surely there are many more in this situation than you, etc.). That's a victory, too, because it helps viewers be sympathetic.

I trust you will be persistent about getting your revolver back. The city is very much on the wrong side of history here, and I suspect they will relent to the pressure.

And I hope that this experience fills you with resolve about your rights, and that you can help further the cause of gun rights in Chicago.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
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#53 ajduenas1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:48 AM


They just ran the stroy. Nice job!


Very nice, except that the people that ran the story did no fact checking at all... People have obtained CFP's they're just few and far between due to the difficulty obtaining them. The ticket was dismissed, the "accused" now has a CFP and a FOID, the Chicago police department is just being belligerent by not returning the gun at this point. Now it's a 4th amendment violation on top of a 2nd amendment violation... If the law is unenforceable, as the judge basically said by dismissing the ticket, the police have to return the gun, there is no violation...

yes they did screw up the facts i think they meant has a case like this has ever happened before, they asked us, i dont think so ? i think its the first time the 7 circuit ruling helped
(made our case) a lower court case.

#54 Machine

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 07:00 AM

Thank you for your persistence on the case. Please keep at them until you get your gun back!
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#55 ajduenas1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 07:16 AM

Thank you for your persistence on the case. Please keep at them until you get your gun back!

Yes I will not stop until I get my Taurus Judge Public Defender back ! Thanks for the support !

#56 ajduenas1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 07:23 AM



They just ran the stroy. Nice job!


Very nice, except that the people that ran the story did no fact checking at all... People have obtained CFP's they're just few and far between due to the difficulty obtaining them. The ticket was dismissed, the "accused" now has a CFP and a FOID, the Chicago police department is just being belligerent by not returning the gun at this point. Now it's a 4th amendment violation on top of a 2nd amendment violation... If the law is unenforceable, as the judge basically said by dismissing the ticket, the police have to return the gun, there is no violation...

yes they did screw up the facts i think they meant has a case like this has ever happened before, they asked us, i dont think so ? i think its the first time the 7 circuit ruling helped
(made our case) a lower court case.

also wanted to clarify not that i did not find a gun range in a suburb but how are the classes/instructer certified by the city if they are not part of the city ?

#57 RandyP

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 08:29 AM

The report mentioned you are due back in court in a couple weeks?

Is this on a different charge relating to having the unregistered firearm within the City limits? Since you did obtain the proper CFP after you faced charges, obviously you did 'find' a range after the fact and a way to get there? It comes to mind that had you done that in the first place you could have avoided a lot of grief, but hindsight is always clear as crystal -lol.

This is a poorly written ordinance. In their rush to create it the City's legal eagles assigned the task did sloppy work and I of course applaud all efforts to get this stupid law revoked.

Just playing the 'Devil's Advocate' here, I do find it hard to believe that anyone with access to the internet could not find a suburban gun shop and range that trained for the CFP. I and 299 other Chicagoans found one back in late June 2010, took the class in July and got our CFPs by mid-August. Several thousand citizens can now report similar success in the ensuing year.

I would hazard a guess that the same gun emporiums that sell firearms to Chicagoans might be able to supply folks with a few leads were the buyer so inclined? Purely curious, when and where did you get your Taurus?

#58 ajduenas1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 09:06 AM

The report mentioned you are due back in court in a couple weeks?

Is this on a different charge relating to having the unregistered firearm within the City limits? Since you did obtain the proper CFP after you faced charges, obviously you did 'find' a range after the fact and a way to get there? It comes to mind that had you done that in the first place you could have avoided a lot of grief, but hindsight is always clear as crystal -lol.

This is a poorly written ordinance. In their rush to create it the City's legal eagles assigned the task did sloppy work and I of course applaud all efforts to get this stupid law revoked.

Just playing the 'Devil's Advocate' here, I do find it hard to believe that anyone with access to the internet could not find a suburban gun shop and range that trained for the CFP. I and 299 other Chicagoans found one back in late June 2010, took the class in July and got our CFPs by mid-August. Several thousand citizens can now report similar success in the ensuing year.

I would hazard a guess that the same gun emporiums that sell firearms to Chicagoans might be able to supply folks with a few leads were the buyer so inclined? Purely curious, when and where did you get your Taurus?

yes the point here is if you are going to have city ordinance you have to have the means to comply in the city

#59 RandyP

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 11:01 AM

It calls to mind a purely "hypothetical" scenario not related to this specific case or individual.

Chicago had its 'ban' on handguns in the home for a couple decades plus. During that time it is 'theoretically' possible that one or two otherwise law-abiding citizens could have otherwise legally purchased firearms outside the city limits, ignored said ban and kept them in their homes over those same decades. The owners 'could' have for decades taken them to local ranges and practiced with them, brought them 'illegally' back home, cleaned them up for next time and stored them away safely, but illegally in the privacy of said home. Knowing full well that what they were doing was against the law these same good minded folks 'could' have relied on the reality that it was very unlikely their home would ever be searched or their car while they were driving to the gun range, and their 'illegal' firearms discovered.

Once the Chicago ban was lifted it became incumbent on those Chicago citizens to take the initiative and get themselves and their firearms street legal. It is 'theoretically' possible that one or two of the citizen/gun owners have made the conscious choice to ignore this new ordinance as they did the previous one and continue to just "take their chances"......theoretically.

The law of averages and Mr Murphy being what they are, sometimes this dirty little secret 'could' come out and jam up said law-abiding law breaker who then must face the consequences of their choices. Such is life in the big city.

If a trooper busts me for speeding on the Stevenson through the construction zone, I can't blame the trooper for doing their job. I could easily have avoided the problem by not stomping on my gas pedal. Life is a series of choices. I make mine, everyone else makes theirs.

Me, I'm heading off to the local gun range to do some plinkin' on a rainy Saturday.

#60 ajduenas1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 11:10 AM

It calls to mind a purely "hypothetical" scenario not related to this specific case or individual.

Chicago had its 'ban' on handguns in the home for a couple decades plus. During that time it is 'theoretically' possible that one or two otherwise law-abiding citizens could have otherwise legally purchased firearms outside the city limits, ignored said ban and kept them in their homes over those same decades. The owners 'could' have for decades taken them to local ranges and practiced with them, brought them 'illegally' back home, cleaned them up for next time and stored them away safely, but illegally in the privacy of said home. Knowing full well that what they were doing was against the law these same good minded folks 'could' have relied on the reality that it was very unlikely their home would ever be searched or their car while they were driving to the gun range, and their 'illegal' firearms discovered.

Once the Chicago ban was lifted it became incumbent on those Chicago citizens to take the initiative and get themselves and their firearms street legal. It is 'theoretically' possible that one or two of the citizen/gun owners have made the conscious choice to ignore this new ordinance as they did the previous one and continue to just "take their chances"......theoretically.

The law of averages and Mr Murphy being what they are, sometimes this dirty little secret 'could' come out and jam up said law-abiding law breaker who then must face the consequences of their choices. Such is life in the big city.

If a trooper busts me for speeding on the Stevenson through the construction zone, I can't blame the trooper for doing their job. I could easily have avoided the problem by not stomping on my gas pedal. Life is a series of choices. I make mine, everyone else makes theirs.

Me, I'm heading off to the local gun range to do some plinkin' on a rainy Saturday.