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#1 Bud

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:06 PM

From what I can read, it appears that because I graduated from the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board Police Firearms Instructor course, I am qualified to apply for Registration as a Firearms Training Instructor under the Provisions of the Private Detective, Private Alarm, Private Security and Locksmith Act.

I am astounded.

Can this be a new source of income that will allow me to buy more guns and ammo?

I am sending it in tomorrow along with copies of my documents.

Has anybody else done this before?
Bud



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#2 Lou

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:26 PM

From what I can read, it appears that because I graduated from the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board Police Firearms Instructor course, I am qualified to apply for Registration as a Firearms Training Instructor under the Provisions of the Private Detective, Private Alarm, Private Security and Locksmith Act.

I am astounded.

Can this be a new source of income that will allow me to buy more guns and ammo?

I am sending it in tomorrow along with copies of my documents.

Has anybody else done this before?


Yup. They will send you a certificate suitable for framing {however it has no "license number !!} that qualifies you.

The 40 hour course to get the ILETSB certifivcation is more stringent than the state requiremets so once you check the box that says you have the ILETSB cert and atach a copy they will send you the DPR certificate free of charge.

As to this being a "a new source of income that will allow me to buy more guns and ammo?" is still to be seen.

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#3 Bud

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:39 PM


From what I can read, it appears that because I graduated from the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board Police Firearms Instructor course, I am qualified to apply for Registration as a Firearms Training Instructor under the Provisions of the Private Detective, Private Alarm, Private Security and Locksmith Act.

I am astounded.

Can this be a new source of income that will allow me to buy more guns and ammo?

I am sending it in tomorrow along with copies of my documents.

Has anybody else done this before?


Yup. They will send you a certificate suitable for framing {however it has no "license number !!} that qualifies you.

The 40 hour course to get the ILETSB certifivcation is more stringent than the state requiremets so once you check the box that says you have the ILETSB cert and atach a copy they will send you the DPR certificate free of charge.

As to this being a "a new source of income that will allow me to buy more guns and ammo?" is still to be seen.


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#4 FST_Kent

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:11 PM

So.......the way I seem to understand it is that one can be an IL certified firearm instructor, but not be certified to teach the 40 hr firearm course?

#5 Bud

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:17 PM

So.......the way I seem to understand it is that one can be an IL certified firearm instructor, but not be certified to teach the 40 hr firearm course?


when I was still an LEO, I taught the (at first) 24 hour course that later became the 40 hour course which I also taught. But it was to LEOs only, both full and part time
Bud



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#6 FST_Kent

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:27 PM

To have an approved course is one thing, but to be a certifed instructor seems to be another and I meet one of the prerequisites.

So.......I can become a certified as an instructor and never seek to have or teach an approved 40hr course, but still be able to sign the CPD affidavit?

#7 Bud

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:50 PM

To have an approved course is one thing, but to be a certifed instructor seems to be another and I meet one of the prerequisites.

So.......I can become a certified as an instructor and never seek to have or teach an approved 40hr course, but still be able to sign the CPD affidavit?


I haven't a clue. But then again I may be misunderstanding what you are saying/asking. I do not think this applicatio will permit you to terach the 40 hour course, no. The forty hour course goes into a great deal on use of force in the course of anb arrest which this does not seem to cover.

As far as the Chicago ordinance goes, I don't think people in the City administration know let alone me.
Bud



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#8 Mr. Fife

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:13 PM

Send it in and let us know what happens. There's no fee, so you are only out the cost of the picture, notary public, and stamped envelope. Good luck!

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#9 highspeed

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:37 PM

I have taught the 20 hr for security and qualified LEO`s. In order to teach the 20 hr. you have to work for an agency cause it requires a training number. You can develop your own training for use, but it has to meet the standards outlined in the ACT. To qualify LEO`s I just went to range and qualified them on the COF they used. I qualified a small dept. that my friend works for. Just gave the chief a copy of my certificate. I never inquired about teaching the 40 hr.

#10 FST_Kent

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:15 PM

But then again I may be misunderstanding what you are saying/asking. I do not think this applicatio will permit you to terach the 40 hour course, no


Yeah, it's two different things in a way, but I thought they were meant to go together. It kinda boggles my mind that the state would certify me as an instructor without first having approved a course. So if I understand it correctly they will certify me as an instructor even though I will never seek to have an approved course, let alone ever want to teach one.

Send it in and let us know what happens. There's no fee, so you are only out the cost of the picture, notary public, and stamped envelope. Good luck!


The certification won't cost me anything, but I may have a company "expedite" my application process which will cost some $$$. What it means is that I'll pay a company to have someone take my application to Springfield and have it processed on the spot. If I get on the ball tomorrow, I could possibly have it done by the end of the week or beginning of next week.

#11 Mr. Fife

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:34 PM

The certification won't cost me anything, but I may have a company "expedite" my application process which will cost some $$$. What it means is that I'll pay a company to have someone take my application to Springfield and have it processed on the spot. If I get on the ball tomorrow, I could possibly have it done by the end of the week or beginning of next week.


Unless you already have students lined up, it hardly seems worth it to pay extra. You will have enough expenses to start out anyway. Think insurance, books, projector, screen, blue rubber guns, business cards, advertising, etc. Maybe a camera for liability purposes.

Better to use your time and money preparing your lesson plan and finding a classroom. Get prepared to teach a good class so that the "word of mouth" customers will come on their own, later. If you plan to teach Chicagoans, you will have the next few years to make money teaching, whether the ordinance stays in effect or not. I heard that classes meeting the CFP requirements are booked solid for the next few months anyway, so you have plenty of time.

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#12 Federal Farmer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:42 AM

My wife finally got through to the IL DPR:

I got through to the Department of Professional Regulation and got a chance
to ask some questions.

1. Background: The list they are working with is a that of instructors who
have previously been approved for the state ordinance re training for
security guards, private investigators, etc. for the 40-hour training course
required. Chicago has given them no info on the 4-hour course it wants for
the Chicago Ordinance.

2. Though he wishes the list were online, no permission has been given to
put it there yet.
***If we have anyone in Springfield who could physically go to there,
they will give us a copy of the entire list and we can post it online
ourselves ****
The address is: 320 W. Washington, 3rd Floor, Springfield, IL

3. For Chicago residents, he says that Chicago Citywide Colleges
(specifically mentioned were Olive Harvey & Malcolm X) have approved
training available with registered instructors. So does a Chicago business
called Professional Bartender's School :headbang1:

4. Sue Darnall is indeed a registered instructor


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#13 Bud

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:06 PM

Having no discernible life other than tilting at windmills, I jumped in the Jetta and took the 360 mile round trip to Springfield today to get my State certification as a firearm instructor "on the spot".

Unfortunately, it don't happen that way.

Jim Koehl, Board Liaison with the Professional Service Section informed me they are swamped with applicants and they have made the decision to handle each application in the order it arrives, regardless of the way it arrives at their office.

I did have a (rather disgusting) 'horseshoe' sandwich at D'Arcy's in Springfield which my (obviously idiotic) son swears "it is to die for".

I may in fact just die. Wrong thing to eat when it is hot(it was 101 when we came out of the resteraunt) I suffered all the way home where my wife attempted to hide her "I told you so" giggles. But I casn claim "been there, done that" whenever anyone mentions a horseshoe sandwich which apparently is popular in central Illinois. I did pass a number of heart related hospitals right downtown inb the capitol and can now understand the need.

Mr Koehl will attempt to get my certificate out to me as soon as possible but has no idea how long that may take.
Bud



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#14 boog

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:36 PM

Having no discernible life other than tilting at windmills, I jumped in the Jetta and took the 360 mile round trip to Springfield today to get my State certification as a firearm instructor "on the spot".

Unfortunately, it don't happen that way.

Jim Koehl, Board Liaison with the Professional Service Section informed me they are swamped with applicants and they have made the decision to handle each application in the order it arrives, regardless of the way it arrives at their office.

I did have a (rather disgusting) 'horseshoe' sandwich at D'Arcy's in Springfield which my (obviously idiotic) son swears "it is to die for".

I may in fact just die. Wrong thing to eat when it is hot(it was 101 when we came out of the resteraunt) I suffered all the way home where my wife attempted to hide her "I told you so" giggles. But I casn claim "been there, done that" whenever anyone mentions a horseshoe sandwich which apparently is popular in central Illinois. I did pass a number of heart related hospitals right downtown inb the capitol and can now understand the need.

Mr Koehl will attempt to get my certificate out to me as soon as possible but has no idea how long that may take.

Thanks for the update as I was headed to Springfield tomorrow to do the same thing. I will save gas and time
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#15 Chiburbian

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:10 PM

It will look good on my "I love me" wall in my room of solitude


You have your "I love me" wall in your bathroom?

:)
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#16 Tvandermyde

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:35 AM

Here are a couple of things.



1 the NRA instructor cert for DPR is a Law Enforcement instructorcert.



2. NRA rules prohibit NRA LE instructors from training civilians. Unlessthey hold a separate civilian cert from NRA.



So unless you are dual certified by NRA this is going to bePolice/security guys doing the training.



I know that Midwest has a LEO trainer on staff and is gearingup.



There is no "Chicago" course curriculum so we'll see howthat goes.
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#17 RandyP

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:53 AM

I signed up for the training at Midwest yesterday, yes it's a basic gun safety course will be taught by a former LEO and then we go to the range for use of a revolver. Not much of a fan of wheel guns myself after 40 years of shooting semi-autos, but I am confident I can hit paper just as well with that 'old-school' technology- lol

I am reasonably certain that the training component of the stoooopid Daley Gun Ordinance will pass a court challenge so basically I'm gonna spend $100 and kill 5 hours for the teacher's signature on my little paper and then wait out the court cases for a couple months before I will apply for a CFP.

I have confirmed that my non-resident concealed carry permit training is not applicable to the Chicago training requirement.

#18 Xwing

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:55 PM

Having no discernible life other than tilting at windmills, I jumped in the Jetta and took the 360 mile round trip to Springfield today to get my State certification as a firearm instructor "on the spot". ....

I did have a (rather disgusting) 'horseshoe' sandwich at D'Arcy's in Springfield which my (obviously idiotic) son swears "it is to die for".
...


1. disappointing that they refused to issue you the certificate after you drove all that way. I hope this works out for you!

2. I've had their horseshoe sandwich and thought it was quite good. D'Arcy's Pint is a fixture in Springfield.
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#19 Kenny

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:44 AM

Do I need to take a 40 hour course to be able to take photos & interview someone? Skip the stupid classes get your gun & sue the city again!!!!
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#20 Bud

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 10:44 AM

Do I need to take a 40 hour course to be able to take photos & interview someone? Skip the stupid classes get your gun & sue the city again!!!!


Received the State certificate today in the mail. It clearly states approved for teaching the 20 hour firearm training course.

So, turned my application and documents in on the 14th and received it on the 31st.

I am so proud. Later today, we will have a certificate approval party where I will cook some form of charred animal flesh and drink copious amounts of Linenkuegel.
Bud



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#21 RandyP

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 10:17 PM

Completed the class at Midwest Gun this afternoon. $100 spent, sent 50 rounds of .38 Special downrange out of the dandy supplied 6 shot wheel gun, all well within the 6" circle of the target, and the instructor put his John Hancock on my little piece of paper.

The private upstairs range at Midwest made for a fine, safe shooting location. 12 "students" were in attendance.

Now I'll try to wait out the court cases before having to lose a day of work to go to the lovely wilds of 35th & Michigan between 8:30 and 3:30, M-F only. Maybe they will be forced to come down a little on the $100 tithing for the CFP? I reckon I have till October 12th to get my carcass down there to meet the 90 day registration window, but will likely target my visit for near the end of September.

#22 junglebob

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 10:50 PM

Completed the class at Midwest Gun this afternoon. $100 spent, sent 50 rounds of .38 Special downrange out of the dandy supplied 6 shot wheel gun, all well within the 6" circle of the target, and the instructor put his John Hancock on my little piece of paper.

The private upstairs range at Midwest made for a fine, safe shooting location. 12 "students" were in attendance.

Now I'll try to wait out the court cases before having to lose a day of work to go to the lovely wilds of 35th & Michigan between 8:30 and 3:30, M-F only. Maybe they will be forced to come down a little on the $100 tithing for the CFP? I reckon I have till October 12th to get my carcass down there to meet the 90 day registration window, but will likely target my visit for near the end of September.


At what distance did you fire the rounds into the 6 inch target? What percentage of rounds had to be within the target? I'm wondering how this compares to the standard LEO qualification.
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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:03 PM

We were VERY close. He had us in groups of six starting at 10', then 13' and finally a whopping 15' or there abouts. There was no specific percentage of accuracy required as far as I know, but eveyone kept the holes on the paper and most in the target box.

As the instructor mentioned, if you can't hit the paper at 10 feet, there is NO logical reason to back up farther and start shooting.

All well within 'normal' self defense distances. It was a great confidence builder for those in the group who were very new to firearms. For a few this was the first time they had held or fired a handgun. At 61, my 40+ years using a handgun is a lot longer than some of my classmates have been alive -lol- but for a Chicago mandatory 'intro' type gun safety course, that range of experience will probably be common.

#24 boog

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 04:28 AM

My wife and I both received our DENIAL letter yesterday. It said we have to be Law Enforcement Instructor Certified
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#25 lockman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:50 AM

My wife and I both received our DENIAL letter yesterday. It said we have to be Law Enforcement Instructor Certified
boog


Just one more ace in the hole in the lawsuit against Chicago. You have to be state certified to teach the course and the state only accepts LEO training credentials and you can only teach LEO's using the LEO creds!
Sounds like catch-22. If you have LEO creds and a basic pistol or equivalent then you can teach the course but can not certify a non-leo or licensed detective or security guard with your LEO ;) certification. Am I missing something? :blink:
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#26 Glock21

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:43 PM

I've decided that I want no part of this.

I'm not going to teach the Chicago course. I do not in any way support the "requirements" Chicago has enacted - they are ALL un-Constitutional - and I will not profit from it.

...and if every trainer in Illinois refused to do it, the Chicago law would be struck down without a second look, if for no other reason than the hardship and unavailability of meeting the requirement.


If people want training, I will train them, but not to meet the Chicago requirements. I'm just not interested earning a living out of support of an un-Constitutional law.

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#27 Federal Farmer

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:51 PM

My wife and I both received our DENIAL letter yesterday. It said we have to be Law Enforcement Instructor Certified
boog


What exactly was denied?

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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#28 boog

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:40 PM


My wife and I both received our DENIAL letter yesterday. It said we have to be Law Enforcement Instructor Certified
boog


What exactly was denied?

None of our certifications qualify us (NRA Handgun, NRA Personal Protection IN and OUTSIDE the home and Utah CCW) letter states we will have to demonstrate that we have sucessfully completed the NRA Law Enforcement Instructor Course. Which we can't do because of the requirements to take that class

ELIGIBILITY

Certain eligibility requirements must be met prior to attending any NRA law enforcement firearm instructor development school. They are:

1. You must be a PUBLIC or PRIVATE law enforcement officer with a minimum of 3 years experience.
A PUBLIC law enforcement officer is defined as, but not limited to:
Any sworn law enforcement officer employed by a federal, state, county or municipal agency or military police unit.
A PRIVATE law enforcement officer is defined as, but not limited to:
Any person working for a private security company, privatized corrections, nuclear security company or private investigations company AND is authorized to be armed in conjunction with the duties of their job.
2. A RETIRED law enforcement officer who HAD arrest powers, has NO criminal convictions, and may lawfully possess a firearm with a minimum of 3 years experience.

3. A PREVIOUSLY EMPLOYED law enforcement officer who HAD arrest powers, has remained active in law enforcement training, has NO criminal convictions, and may lawfully possess a firearm with a minimum of 3 years experience.

4. Certain individuals who do not meet the above criteria may still qualify to attend and their applications will be looked at and evaluated for eligibility on a case-by-case basis.
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#29 Lou

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:02 PM

Boog,

The certification Budman5 used to get his was not the NRA course but rather one recognized by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board. The 40 hour instructors course is taught by NEMRT {North East Multi-Regional Training Inc.} but of course is only offered to active police officers.

This certified program is designed to provide instruction to law enforcement personnel who will be involved in firearms training activities for their departments.

This course has been certified by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board. It is approved for certificate only, not reimbursement.


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#30 Bud

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:27 PM

Not to bad mouth the State since I am the recepient of this suitable for display certificate but.......................

I attended the Police Firearms Instructor course in 1978.

Wait, what?

When I took the course, Glock hadn't been invented, most cops still carried revolvers and the Chicago homicide rate was hovering around 1,000 every year (as opposed to just over 400 per year now)

That means I was trained 32 years ago. I have taken the Small Arms Instructor Training Course (SAITS) at the Fort Benning Infantry school that was in depth and lasted six weeks since then but it had little to do with law enforcement.

This whole requirement is ridiculous.

If someone was already running a training course approved and certified by the NRA, has a bond and insurance then why go through the rest of this?

We need a carry law with preemption
Bud



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