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Anyone hear about this"melting Point"


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#1 jkrzos

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:27 PM

Howdy,

I want to buy a firearm mfgd in Ohio, but they say they cannot sell to Illinois because of the "melting point?"

We have been informed by some of our distributors of states that require firearms to withstand a melting point limit. In the list we were given, Illinois, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Maryland, South Carolina and California donít allow the Chiappa 1911-22 to be sold since it doesnít meet the limit.

I told him that there is a gun on gunsamerica to be sold, it doesn't have that restriction on it.

Todd-can you check into this or does anyone know of it?

Jkrzos
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#2 sanctuarytraders

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:46 PM

Yes, it has to do with "cheap" firearms. Somehow the metal in the gun makes it more dangerous. /sarcasm

I'll try to find the code for you.

Howdy,

I want to buy a firearm mfgd in Ohio, but they say they cannot sell to Illinois because of the "melting point?"

We have been informed by some of our distributors of states that require firearms to withstand a melting point limit. In the list we were given, Illinois, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Maryland, South Carolina and California donít allow the Chiappa 1911-22 to be sold since it doesnít meet the limit.

I told him that there is a gun on gunsamerica to be sold, it doesn't have that restriction on it.

Todd-can you check into this or does anyone know of it?

Jkrzos



#3 sanctuarytraders

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:53 PM

Okay, found it.
(720 ILCS 5/24‑3)
"(h) While holding any license as a dealer, importer,
manufacturer or pawnbroker under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, manufactures, sells or delivers to any unlicensed person a handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is a die casting of zinc alloy or any other nonhomogeneous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. For purposes of this paragraph, (1) "firearm" is defined as in the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and (2) "handgun" is defined as a firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and includes a combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled. "

can be referenced at http://www.ilga.gov/...=072000050K24-3

TEG

#4 Tvandermyde

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:42 PM

you that is the one. it's been on the books since about '72 designed to stop pot metal or white metal guns -- diecast zinc.

but it only applies to metal not polymer or other things.

what is there gun made of?
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#5 jkrzos

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:00 PM

Howdy,

Thanks for the information, it really helps me. I have copied the legislation and emailed it to the mfgr. Awaiting their reply.

Todd,

don't know what it made of. It's a neat looking 1911, but chambered in .22LR. I love the 1911 platform(I have 7 of them). The company makes reproduction civil war guns and has branched out to include this model. google chiappi firearms. It doesn't break down the materials, but does has polymer magazines(could be a down side, but they have polymer AR magazines.)

again, thanks for the info.


Jkrzos
Retired Cowboy Action Shooter, PPC Shooter
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MY 1911 BEATS A 911 CALL!

If you don't stand behind our Troops, Please stand in front of them

“Give me a fast ship for I intend to go into Harms Way”

During WW2, no other Naval Unit eclipsed the record of the little beavers lead by Captain “31 knot Arleigh Burke.” There are Sailors and then there are DESTROYER SAILORS. Fast, sleek, they seek out the enemy at point blank range

#6 jkrzos

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:46 PM

Howdy,

heres what I got from the manufacturer-

I want to thank you for sending this information to us; it will be very helpful when trying to help other people. Iíve scanned and attached a copy of the information describing the alloy composite for the Chiappa 1911-22. As is shown in the specifications, the melting point is 717-727 degrees Fahrenheit putting just below the requirements that Illinois has stipulated.



Thank you again for the reference you sent. You are the first person who has been kind enough to do so.



PJ
MKS Supply, Inc.

Jkrzos
guess I'm out for buying one until I move.
Retired Cowboy Action Shooter, PPC Shooter
Tincan Sailor, Trusty Shellback
NRA & ISRA Life Member, ISRA RSO

MY 1911 BEATS A 911 CALL!

If you don't stand behind our Troops, Please stand in front of them

“Give me a fast ship for I intend to go into Harms Way”

During WW2, no other Naval Unit eclipsed the record of the little beavers lead by Captain “31 knot Arleigh Burke.” There are Sailors and then there are DESTROYER SAILORS. Fast, sleek, they seek out the enemy at point blank range

#7 Buzzard

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 04:32 PM

Too bad this handgun is outlawed in Illinois. It sounds like a sweet shooting, inexpensive 1911 to practice with. I wonder if they would consider changing their manufacturing process to bring the alloy's melting point up to 800+ degrees? Would it be worth their time and expense for sales in Illinois?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#8 mikew

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:15 AM

The melting point restriction is a modern version of the Army/Navy law, no?

#9 ultra magnus

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:45 PM

I've seen these available for sale in Illinois FYI.

#10 BobbyT

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:14 PM

The melting point restriction is a modern version of the Army/Navy law, no?


No, as I understand it, it's another leftover racist "Saturday night special" law. You know, keep guns expensive so that certain undesirable types can't afford them and make trouble.
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#11 Buzzard

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:24 PM

I've seen these available for sale in Illinois FYI.


Ain't that a kicker? Buy a gun thinking you're legal, not knowing the alloy has a melting point just 80 degrees shy of Illinois' legal limit. What's the sentencing guidelines for possession of a diecast zinc weapon? Ten years? This state has waaaaaay too many statutes to put unsuspecting citizens in jail!
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

#12 Matt H

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:14 AM

I'm a bit late on this one but I did notice in the Gander Mountain black friday ad, A Heratige MFG 22lr revolver on sale, with "not available in IL" in the fine print. I did some digging and found out about the alloy frame issue too. They did have an optional steel frame legal in IL on their website. I tried to find the black friday ad again, but it has been taken down everywhere. Alloy frame and the available in IL Steel Frame.

#13 kermit315

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 01:45 PM

If somebody moves to the state and has one, they can keep it. If they want to sell it, you can buy it. It just cant be sold from a dealer, and since it involves going through a dealer, you cant buy it from out of state.

It sucks.
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#14 mikew

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:22 PM

The melting point restriction is a modern version of the Army/Navy law, no?


No, as I understand it, it's another leftover racist "Saturday night special" law. You know, keep guns expensive so that certain undesirable types can't afford them and make trouble.

That was the point of the Army/Navy law.

You could only buy the Army model revolver or the Navy model, and they were expensive.

#15 mikew

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:12 PM

Did anyone ever see a S&W Sigma .380 in the 1990's?

It had a zinc slide.

It was a horrible PR move on S&W's part.

But I believe I remember seeing them for sale in Illinois....

#16 kermit315

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:23 PM

I bought one for my wife in 2001, and promptly sold it. Couldnt hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with it.

Bought it from Farm King in Galesburg if I remember right.
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#17 junglebob

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:02 AM

I went to Gallery of Guns and put in a search for that handgun and a Wisconsin zip code, came up unavailable. I also did a search for all 1911-22 handguns and that was the only brand that came up.
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#18 Xwing

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:49 AM

Another stupid law. Of course the government doesn't want poor people to have the right to defend themselves... ;)
Also has the side effect of disallowing access to a couple of cool guns... Could be worse. At least we're not in Maryland or California.
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#19 kestrou

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 04:19 PM

There's a lot of issues higher on the list that should be challenged, but this is a good example of one that's RIPE for a court challenge.

Wouldn't life be grand if we got tort reform to "the loser pays" so that we could easily challenge all these inane and arbitrary limits on constitutional rights?!

kestrou

#20 Buzzard

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 04:48 PM

There's a lot of issues higher on the list that should be challenged, but this is a good example of one that's RIPE for a court challenge.

Wouldn't life be grand if we got tort reform to "the loser pays" so that we could easily challenge all these inane and arbitrary limits on constitutional rights?!

kestrou


Welcome kestrou! And Merry Christmas!

Actually when you think about it, we lose even when we win, because the taxpayer picks up the tab on both sides. That's why anti-gun politicians don't mind fighting these battles in court. They don't have to show up or pay the legal fees - but we do!
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes,
but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda,
they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle