32 replies to this topic

[Molly B.]

http://www.kfvs12.co....asp?s=11215157

Two elderly southern Illinois women, one 69 and one 76 years old, were viciously attacked while working in a church in Anna, IL.


And this, dear Illinois General Assembly, is why we need a license to carry law in Illinois!

[jobes]

An absolute sick and cruel world we live in. It's a darn shame that that the citizens of this state cannot defend themselves.

[GarandFan]

Good grief.

I am glad those women will be OK after this (physically, at least).

This indicates many things, I am sure, but one thing (and few of us even like to admit this) is that attacks can happen to pretty much anyone, pretty much anywhere.  No one is sacred in the mind of a criminal, and no place is sacred (including churches, restaurants, schools, universities, etc.).

I think it's time the GA heard about this story ...


The second amendment guarantees the individual right to possess and carry arms in case of confrontation.
US Supreme Court

[GarandFan]

Here is a good companion article to that one from Anna, IL.

http://www.myfoxdetr...shoots_intruder

Pastor Shoots, Wounds Intruder at Detroit Church

Updated: Tuesday, 29 Sep 2009, 6:13 AM EDT
Published : Monday, 28 Sep 2009, 9:09 PM EDT
By The Associated Press

DETROIT (AP) - A retired police officer-turned-pastor shot and wounded a man who broke into his Detroit church, police said Monday.

Lawrence Adams went to Westside Bible Church on Sunday evening and found the intruder inside the building, said Detroit police Sgt. Eren Stephens. The man began swinging an object at the retired police lieutenant, who pulled out a handgun and shot him in the abdomen, he said.

"The pastor identified himself as a retired policeman. The guy kept swinging," Adams' wife, Iris, told The Associated Press Monday. The pastor, who was not injured, was licensed to carry the handgun, police said.

Police have not released the alleged intruder's name but said he was being treated at an area hospital. His injuries were not believed to be life-threatening.

Iris Adams said the church's security company called her at home Sunday after a burglar alarm at the building was triggered. She telephoned her husband, who went to the church with his sister, she said. The nondenominational church has had burglars in the past.

"Normally, they would break out one of our windows," Iris Adams said. "Our alarm has always gone off."

Lawrence Adams retired in 2006 after 25 years with the police department and was promoted to senior pastor at the church, where the couple had been members for several years, in 2007, his wife said.

[junglebob]

I was looking at the city-data.com crime statistics for Anna.  Anna is one of the safer places you could find in Illinois.  It's population is around 5000. Their average crime index for 1999 to 2007 was 115.9 and the U.S. average is 320.9.    They averaged 80 assaults per 100,000 people. Carbondale Illinois about 18 miles away and averaged 287.2  per 100,000.  If either of these women would have been killed it would have made their murder rate skyrocket, there were none from 1999 to 2007. Chicago assault rate is 592.8 1999 to 2007,and the state is about 358 on average for 1999 to 2006.  The state was my averaging from statistics on another site, which didn't include 2007.

This is an example of a good reason to not make churches "Criminal Protection Zones" by having them listed as places that carry is prohibited in LTC bills introduced in the legislature.  This seems to be quite common in the bills introduced.

Will that church in Anna give the pastor permission to carry on church property, if he wants?  On the concealed carry ballot referendum in that county 67% voted yes.  My pastor mentioned a pastor friend in St. Louis who carries.

[Howard Roark]

Women's self defense issues are what brought me to illinoiscarry.com  (thanks Molly B.)
My mother was beaten and almost killed by a burglar in her own home.
Who is not outraged by that?
The police cannot defend citizens against every surprise attack by criminals.
Rape, murder, assault are common, as long as the government does not enforce the laws.
Every person has the right to defend themselves.
If these elderly women had been armed, maybe the outcome would have been much happier.

[Howard Roark]

Our loved ones should not have to suffer from the criminal predators.  If only one of these women was bearing arms, the outcome of the Lane Bryant murders in Tineley Park Illinois could have been very different.

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When will the courts uphold our human rights of self defense?

[doubletap]

my daughter and her friend were held up at gun point by 2 guys both with guns ,
VERY LUCKILY the out come was only 1 purse stolen and both girls unharmed  !  
" the rest of the story " part . .   i dont think they were after just money ...
this happen at Hanover Park apt. complex , 911 call and took cops 6 mins to arrive ...
the guy who called 911 even said seemed like a lifetime ..
no arrests -no leads - the 2 guys still at large to pray on others unarmed citizens ....

i have gone to IGOLD ,
met with my legislators, told my story and pleaded i do not want my kids to be a victim again !
we need CCW
needless to say  i will not vote for any of them next election and told them to their face

[junglebob]

When will the courts uphold our right to self defense?   When will the legislature.  The Tinley Park killings were on February  2 2008.   Still no LTC bills voted on.   Those 5 dead woman should have been a call to action for the legislature to do something.   Not in Illinois its still dial 911 and die!   I wonder if the woman that survived the Lane Bryant massacre carries?   Would a jury convict her of UUW if she was found carrying?  If she does carry and that was her "wake up call" to assume responsibilty for her protecting herself she might be a good one to testify at a hearing on LTC legislation in Illinois, her and Suzanna Gratia Hupp.  I don't suppose any of those Chicago women was a FOID card holder.   I guess there is even less chance that they were a handgun owner.   If they were some family member could make the argument that they might be alive today if Illinois had LTC.

Maybe some day some Illinoisan with a non-resident LTC will be killed because they didn't have the means to defend themselves and their spouse will sue the state for being the only state in the union not to allow them a means of self defense.

[moparcardave]

I was looking at the city-data.com crime statistics for Anna. Anna is one of the safer places you could find in Illinois. It's population is around 5000. Their average crime index for 1999 to 2007 was 115.9 and the U.S. average is 320.9. They averaged 80 assaults per 100,000 people. Carbondale Illinois about 18 miles away and averaged 287.2 per 100,000. If either of these women would have been killed it would have made their murder rate skyrocket, there were none from 1999 to 2007. Chicago assault rate is 592.8 1999 to 2007,and the state is about 358 on average for 1999 to 2006.

Even Chicago is better then Rockford withour 1999-2007 average crime index from city data of 676.  No supprise here, when the neighbor asks me who was shooting fireworks last night I respond might sound like fireworks to you but that was gunfire. Even San Antonio where claims of high crime are lower then Chicago.

[PPK]

Another article about the attack. So far, no comments posted. I'd like to post something but I'm at a total loss other than offering my sypathy to the victims. I'm sure the attack could have been avoided if either of them had been armed but how likely would it have been for them to be armed even if Illinois had an LTC? Most people in the country that have that option available don't take advantage of it. Besides, a locked door probably would have stopped this attack.

The Southern

[abolt243]

junglebob, on Sep 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Will that church in Anna give the pastor permission to carry on church property, if he wants?

In one of the first articles that I read about the attack, the preacher made the statement that "Security measures had been put in place".  I've spent a lot of time in Anna in years past.  I know some of the folks that attend the Baptist church there.  I'm thinking that I know some of the "security" he's talking about.

And it ain't cameras!

AB

[Sigma]

This is an example of a good reason to not make churches "Criminal Protection Zones" by having them listed as places that carry is prohibited in LTC bills introduced in the legislature.  This seems to be quite common in the bills introduced.



Under Illinois law Cant you still carry in church if it is cased and unloaded?
Or do you have to have permission?

I've heard of a lot of church shootings that could have been avoided if someone took the few seconds to load and engage.

[junglebob]

abolt243, on Oct 1 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

junglebob, on Sep 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Will that church in Anna give the pastor permission to carry on church property, if he wants?

In one of the first articles that I read about the attack, the preacher made the statement that "Security measures had been put in place".  I've spent a lot of time in Anna in years past.  I know some of the folks that attend the Baptist church there.  I'm thinking that I know some of the "security" he's talking about.

And it ain't cameras!

AB

Thats what came to mind for me when he said "security measures".    The states attorney for Union County, where Anna is located had charges brought against him within the last year, if I recall correctly.   He was being served papers at the court house by a process server and allegedly pulled a handgun.

Some years back a church I went to had a guy who was disiplined by the church who apparently made some threats.   One of the elders was a cop and was asked to carry to service.   The guy didn't show up or do anything.

Sigma, Cased and unloaded is transporting.  Unless the church has a school there it should be OK.

[junglebob]

abolt243, on Oct 1 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

junglebob, on Sep 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Will that church in Anna give the pastor permission to carry on church property, if he wants?

In one of the first articles that I read about the attack, the preacher made the statement that "Security measures had been put in place".  I've spent a lot of time in Anna in years past.  I know some of the folks that attend the Baptist church there.  I'm thinking that I know some of the "security" he's talking about.

And it ain't cameras!

AB

Maybe "security measures" is the same thing I thought of when I read that.  I think it was in the past year that the Union County states attorney had charges brought against him for allegedly pulling a handgun on a process server who was serving him a summons.

A chuch I went to some years ago had a guy under church disipline who made some threats.   One of the elders was a cop and was asked to carry to service.   The guy never showed up.

Sigma, Unloaded and encased is transport.   That should be OK unless the church had a school.

[Howard Roark]

BUMP!  There is no issue more important to me than women's rights, human rights, individual rights.  (Thanks Molly B.).

Men here support womens individual right to defend themselves.  And that is good.

[junglebob]

I was talking with a friend at church today about the Chicago gun case going to the supreme court.  The subject turned to the two elderly women attacked at the Anna church.   He said he works with a couple that go to that church and the younger of the two women has a license to carry and is supposed to be a good shot.   So if Illinois had LTC it seems very likely that this woman might not have ended up in the hospital from an assault.   She surely would have had the ability to have protection besides a nail file, comb, or car keys.

So maybe the "enhanced security measures" might end up ending the career of another criminal that breaks into that Anna church.

[papa]

Now that is shameful if true !! The lady could protect herself at anytime if out of state but being she lives in Il. she became a victim . Just another example of crimes happening where we least exspect them.  I am thankful that the women weren't hurt any worse than they were.

[Sigma]

Yeah but my church is in Chicago.
i wonder if i can transport there incasesd and unloaded

[junglebob]

Sigma, on Oct 5 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Yeah but my church is in Chicago.
i wonder if i can transport there incasesd and unloaded

Do you live in Chicago as well?  If so they could get you for having an unregistered handgun.  What is the penalty for that?  Unless there is a school you should be OK if you live outside Chicago.  Not saying you might not be arrested if found transporting, but I don't know of anyone convicted.  You make your choices and take your chances in Illinois.  I wouldn't doubt that that lady from the Anna church will be carrying if they give her permission, or at least transporting.

[Sigma]

junglebob, on Oct 5 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

Sigma, on Oct 5 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Yeah but my church is in Chicago.
i wonder if i can transport there incasesd and unloaded

Do you live in Chicago as well?  If so they could get you for having an unregistered handgun.  What is the penalty for that?  Unless there is a school you should be OK if you live outside Chicago.  Not saying you might not be arrested if found transporting, but I don't know of anyone convicted.  You make your choices and take your chances in Illinois.  I wouldn't doubt that that lady from the Anna church will be carrying if they give her permission, or at least transporting.

Thanks for your reply. No I live in the suburbs where its ok to have a handgun. But unfortunatley I have to go to Chicago for Church on Sundays.
Just wondering. Im new to this and really dont know where I can transport. I carried unloaded in my case then put it in my backpack the other day at Burlington Coat factory and felt like I was doing something wrong but I cant help but think about those women at Lane Bryant.

[Jeffrey]

junglebob, on Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

He said he works with a couple that go to that church and the younger of the two women has a license to carry and is supposed to be a good shot.

Anyone who lives in the area and can get through to her?  Her story could help our fight to freedom.

[junglebob]

Sigma, on Oct 5 2009, 12:47 PM, said:

junglebob, on Oct 5 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

Sigma, on Oct 5 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Yeah but my church is in Chicago.
i wonder if i can transport there incasesd and unloaded

Do you live in Chicago as well?  If so they could get you for having an unregistered handgun.  What is the penalty for that?  Unless there is a school you should be OK if you live outside Chicago.  Not saying you might not be arrested if found transporting, but I don't know of anyone convicted.  You make your choices and take your chances in Illinois.  I wouldn't doubt that that lady from the Anna church will be carrying if they give her permission, or at least transporting.

Thanks for your reply. No I live in the suburbs where its ok to have a handgun. But unfortunatley I have to go to Chicago for Church on Sundays.
Just wondering. Im new to this and really dont know where I can transport. I carried unloaded in my case then put it in my backpack the other day at Burlington Coat factory and felt like I was doing something wrong but I cant help but think about those women at Lane Bryant.

If you keep "fanny pack transporting" you'll get more comfortable with it.  Then maybe you'll be able to comfortably chat with a local LEO at a community festival like I did a few weeks ago.   Bible covers work good on sundays, with a small zippered case inside especially if you have one with a small side pocket where you can put a small Bible in.   Remember of course to keep your Bible cover with you.  You don't want someone taking yours opening it up because they want to look up some passage and having your handgun case drop out, even worse if you didn't have a handgun case inside.  Imagine the awkward silence, or gasps when your handgun hits the floor.  I assume that no school is connected with your church so it isn't in a "safe school zone".

[Molly B.]

Jeffrey, on Oct 5 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

junglebob, on Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

He said he works with a couple that go to that church and the younger of the two women has a license to carry and is supposed to be a good shot.

Anyone who lives in the area and can get through to her?  Her story could help our fight to freedom.

It is true that one of the women had previously taken a defensive handgun class. I know her instructor.
We plan to be in touch in the future.

Molly B.

[junglebob]

The KFVS.com website has a story about two men charged in connection with the two women assaulted at the Anna church.  A Willis Bates was arrested yesterday in Marion and faces 7 felony charges including 4 counts of attempted murder, one count of burglary, and two counts of theft.  Jared Garver was also arrested in connection with the case.  He faces felony charges including unlawful possession of weapons by a felon, 2 counts of obstruction of justice and concealing a fugitive.

Garvers bond was set at $10,000 and Bates at $1,000,000.  

The pastor of Anna 1st Baptist said the two women are doing better.

I don't know if that 4 counts of attempted murder is correct, but that is what the article said.

[junglebob]

Just read something on the WSIL website.  It said that the younger of the two women, the church secretary, is talking about returning to work.  The older woman is scheduled for surgery on thursday.    Three additional charges of residential burglary have been brought against Willis E. Bates. for other burglaries in the Anna area.

[Eireman]

Molly B., on Oct 6 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

Jeffrey, on Oct 5 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

junglebob, on Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

He said he works with a couple that go to that church and the younger of the two women has a license to carry and is supposed to be a good shot.

Anyone who lives in the area and can get through to her?  Her story could help our fight to freedom.

It is true that one of the women had previously taken a defensive handgun class. I know her instructor.
We plan to be in touch in the future.

Molly B.

Great to hear!   Sadly, common sense is never enough to motivate the sheltered and ignorant who want to disarm citizens and make them into helpless victims.  Like Texas, it takes putting an actual face, name, and tragic human experience to disarm "gun controloid's" deceptive rhetoric.

[Molly B.]

The two elderly southern Illinois women who were savagely beaten in a church in Anna continue to recover.
One of the women, Mary Shepherd had taken defensive handgun training courses - but of course is denied the right
to carry a firearm in the state of IL.

Anyone wanting to send a card or word of encouragement to Mary may send them in care of the Heartland Training Team where
Mary has been a student and they will be glad to forward the correspondences.

Mary Shepherd
c/o Heartland Training Team
756 Catalpa Way, Marion, Ill 62959.

[Molly B.]

Here's an update:

Quote

Bates pleads guilty to Anna church beatings
Web Editor - Michael Vick

ANNA, Ill. - The man accused of beating two elderly female church workers pleaded guilty Tuesday.

Willis Bates was charged with two counts of attempted murder in connection to the 2009 attack. The court sentenced him to 23 years in the Illinois Department of Corrections on each count, to be served concurrently. Bates must serve at least 85 percent of the sentence under Illinois law.

Willis, 46, broke into the First Baptist Church in Anna, Illinois, Sept. 28, 2009 and attacked 69-year-old Mary Shepard and 76-year-old Leona Mount. Bates also took money from one of the victims and from the church.

The Union County State's Attorney, Tyler Edwards, said both Shepard and Mount have made "tremendous progress in their recoveries."

Mount's family released the following statement:

"We would like to thank the community and our church family for all their support. Through your prayers and acts of kindness, God has done great and mighty things. We will never forget how God has used you in this very difficult time in our lives. A special thank you to all the law enforcement and the State's Attorneys' Office for all their dedication and hard work that has made this day another milestone in the healing and restoration process. Thanks again to each and everyone. To God be the Glory."

[TTIN]

Molly B., on 17 August 2010 - 09:23 AM, said:

Here's an update:

Quote

Bates pleads guilty to Anna church beatings
Web Editor - Michael Vick

ANNA, Ill. - The man accused of beating two elderly female church workers pleaded guilty Tuesday.

Willis Bates was charged with two counts of attempted murder in connection to the 2009 attack. The court sentenced him to 23 years in the Illinois Department of Corrections on each count, to be served concurrently. Bates must serve at least 85 percent of the sentence under Illinois law.

Willis, 46, broke into the First Baptist Church in Anna, Illinois, Sept. 28, 2009 and attacked 69-year-old Mary Shepard and 76-year-old Leona Mount. Bates also took money from one of the victims and from the church.

The Union County State's Attorney, Tyler Edwards, said both Shepard and Mount have made "tremendous progress in their recoveries."

Mount's family released the following statement:

"We would like to thank the community and our church family for all their support. Through your prayers and acts of kindness, God has done great and mighty things. We will never forget how God has used you in this very difficult time in our lives. A special thank you to all the law enforcement and the State's Attorneys' Office for all their dedication and hard work that has made this day another milestone in the healing and restoration process. Thanks again to each and everyone. To God be the Glory."

Glad to hear they're doing better.