146 replies to this topic

[Lou]

lilguy, on 14 May 2011 - 10:02 AM, said:

And here is what 3 SA's say about fanny pack's. I'd be real careful. No lawyer here is going to defend you for free and if you loose your FOID privileged that's it game over. Internet bravado aside, this is not settled law.

"Anyone caught carrying a handgun in their fanny pack will be arrested and prosecuted, state's attorneys from Illinois' three largest counties warned Wednesday.

A Web site run by Concealed Carry Inc. has been urging people to carry their guns in their fanny packs because they believe appellate court cases in Illinois clear the way for that.

They are mistaken, Cook County State's Attorney Dick Devine said. He was joined by DuPage County State's Attorney Joe Birkett and Lake County State's Attorney Mike Waller.

"Anyone who wants to transport a firearm in a fanny pack in an attempt to bring vigilante justice to the streets of our city is sadly mistaken," Devine …

That quote is from November 2000.  John Birch, who basically was Concealed Carry Inc. gave up the fight a long time ago.  

Fight for the RKBA, not a lawerly  way to circumvent the law.

[junglebob]

Lou, on 14 May 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

lilguy, on 14 May 2011 - 10:02 AM, said:

And here is what 3 SA's say about fanny pack's. I'd be real careful. No lawyer here is going to defend you for free and if you loose your FOID privileged that's it game over. Internet bravado aside, this is not settled law.

"Anyone caught carrying a handgun in their fanny pack will be arrested and prosecuted, state's attorneys from Illinois' three largest counties warned Wednesday.

A Web site run by Concealed Carry Inc. has been urging people to carry their guns in their fanny packs because they believe appellate court cases in Illinois clear the way for that.

They are mistaken, Cook County State's Attorney Dick Devine said. He was joined by DuPage County State's Attorney Joe Birkett and Lake County State's Attorney Mike Waller.

"Anyone who wants to transport a firearm in a fanny pack in an attempt to bring vigilante justice to the streets of our city is sadly mistaken," Devine …

That quote is from November 2000.  John Birch, who basically was Concealed Carry Inc. gave up the fight a long time ago.  

Fight for the RKBA, not a lawerly  way to circumvent the law.

Illinois UUW statutes are circumventing the law of the land, the United States Constitution.  Its Illinois that is circumventing not those who transport in a fanny pack.

[samy12386]

so we can have a handgun in the glovebox as long as its unloaded? that went to court in our favor right?

[colt-45]

samy12386, on 07 July 2011 - 02:43 PM, said:

so we can have a handgun in the glovebox as long as its unloaded? that went to court in our favor right?

that's what i've been told to. you can have a gun in the glovebox as long as it isn't loaded. or in your console of your car.

[samy12386]

sweet, i'm gonna take advantage of that until it gets banned

[Sigma]

how is that a benefit. who wants to reach way over there to get an unloaded firearm. Wouldnt a case in the front seat be better? THat way if you get out the car you can take with you. You gotta think about how you got the firearm in the glove box or console. If your car was parked on your property fine. If the car was parked on the street, how did you get it in the glove box/console?

[Blackviper]

I was looking for the article but can't find it.    Anyways  I have been riding around since um March 21 I think with a gun in my glovebox.  My gun is still in what I consider a case my blackhawk paddle holster it in there because once I cross the bridge in St Louis the gun get loaded and put on my side.  

Word of advice if you plan to carry in your glove box do your self a favor and remove all valid car paper work  Insurance, Registration any thing  else a police officer might ask you for  keep it out of the glove box the best place to have this information is above the drivers side visor.

Second and most important  if an officer ask may I search your car ?  Your Answer is "NO"!!!  you have the right under the 4th to refuse an officer for search of your car. there are some exceptions  if you already under arrest its not going to matter.   That is my words of advice

[blackhalo]

In People v. Holmes, the court ruled that a backseat center console was a case.  Diggins ruled that the center front seat console was a case.  People v. Cameron, 784 NE2d 438 (Ill. App. 4th Dist.) ruled that it wasn't error to refuse to instruct the jury that the glovebox was within the definition of 720 ILCS 5/24.1.  

Cameron still hasn't been explicitly overruled.  That being said, after Holmes and Diggins, Cameron's holding has been eviscerated.

[blackhalo]

My carry piece is always inside a soft, zippershut case, with 2 loaded magazines inside, and inside my glovebox.  That way, if I have to open the glovebox for any reason, I'm still in compliance.

[samy12386]

Blackviper, on 07 July 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

I was looking for the article but can't find it.    Anyways  I have been riding around since um March 21 I think with a gun in my glovebox.  My gun is still in what I consider a case my blackhawk paddle holster it in there because once I cross the bridge in St Louis the gun get loaded and put on my side.  

Word of advice if you plan to carry in your glove box do your self a favor and remove all valid car paper work  Insurance, Registration any thing  else a police officer might ask you for  keep it out of the glove box the best place to have this information is above the drivers side visor.

Second and most important  if an officer ask may I search your car ?  Your Answer is "NO"!!!  you have the right under the 4th to refuse an officer for search of your car. there are some exceptions  if you already under arrest its not going to matter.   That is my words of advice

i won't be under arrest (knock on wood) i am a law abiding liberty junkie.  Thanks for the advice though i love the 4th amendment i think its my second fav.  To answer the question about how is the glove box good i think its all just personal preference, here in California which i will be leaving in about five months for Illinois we have to have handguns in a locked i repeat locked case and the law specifically says the glove box does not count.  In my opinion if i needed the gun it would be easier to pop open the glove box then to unzip a case and for the case to be easily accessible it would have to be on the seat not under it which would be an LEOs dream and even if no charges were filled its going to be a long stop.  My truck has a nice big center console which i already keep all my paperwork in.  other than having to be unloaded the glove box is where i keep my XD when traveling through states not ruled by tyrants since the holster or my waistband gets somewhat uncomfortable with my seatbelt on which i do wear for safety not because it is the law.

[Sigma]

blackhalo, on 07 July 2011 - 03:05 PM, said:

My carry piece is always inside a soft, zippershut case, with 2 loaded magazines inside, and inside my glovebox.  That way, if I have to open the glovebox for any reason, I'm still in compliance.

Why would you put the case in glove box? Even todd has the case on the front seat.

[blackhalo]

Sigma, on 08 July 2011 - 03:36 PM, said:

blackhalo, on 07 July 2011 - 03:05 PM, said:

My carry piece is always inside a soft, zippershut case, with 2 loaded magazines inside, and inside my glovebox.  That way, if I have to open the glovebox for any reason, I'm still in compliance.

Why would you put the case in glove box? Even todd has the case on the front seat.

If I'm expecting trouble (bad neighborhood, etc), it's riding shotgun in the case.  But for my daily commute, it's in my glovebox, in the case. Call it an abundance of caution.

And when I cross into Iowa, it's chambered on my way over the bridge.

[chip]

Just a heads-up, incase (no pun intended) anyone wanted to get creative and make a special compartment to store their firearm in the car. There's a law on the books that makes it a felony to create a hidden compartment with the intent to illegally store a firearm. 625 ILCS 5 Illinois Vehicle Code 12-612
Of course we know that a valid FOID card holder can have an unloaded firearm in a closed case, there's ambiguity to the law as to the intent. That said, if it's unloaded in the hidden compartment and you're an FOID holder, you should have a fine defense. My purpose in posting this is so that hopefully you can avoid having to defend something like this stupid law, when there's already a higher law that says we don't even need an FOID (preaching to the choir).
Also note, if found guilty of the hidden compartment provision, they can seize the vehicle...as in use it or auction it without payment to you.

Be safe, have fun, shoot straight, shoot fast.

- chip

[rock4xfab]

To those asking about carry in a fanny pack.. Look up the 6 second rule. There are CCW packs designed just as you asked. Gun in one side loaded mag in the other. The question is if attacked are you going get it loaded in 6 sec. A grwon man running will make up 21 ft in less then 6.. Either way it is legal but I would have a copy of the law in said fanny pack and a notary with my lawyer on speed dial.

[Federal Farmer]

rock4xfab, on 16 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

To those asking about carry in a fanny pack.. Look up the 6 second rule. There are CCW packs designed just as you asked. Gun in one side loaded mag in the other. The question is if attacked are you going get it loaded in 6 sec. A grwon man running will make up 21 ft in less then 6.. Either way it is legal but I would have a copy of the law in said fanny pack and a notary with my lawyer on speed dial.

Legal in IL unless preempted by local ordinance (I'm looking at you, Chicago).

[junglebob]

Federal Farmer, on 16 February 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

rock4xfab, on 16 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

To those asking about carry in a fanny pack.. Look up the 6 second rule. There are CCW packs designed just as you asked. Gun in one side loaded mag in the other. The question is if attacked are you going get it loaded in 6 sec. A grwon man running will make up 21 ft in less then 6.. Either way it is legal but I would have a copy of the law in said fanny pack and a notary with my lawyer on speed dial.

Legal in IL unless preempted by local ordinance (I'm looking at you, Chicago).

And to make things interesting some cities don't post their firearms ordinaces on the ISP website, as they are supposed to.  It could be that all have now but to make sure if yours is a home rule community ask the city clerk or city attorney if they have any firearms ordinaces and if so get a copy. I'm not aware of any that have any restrictions on transport of firearms different than state law in Southern Illinois, but it is a good idea to check, before container transporting.

[Molly B.]

rock4xfab, on 16 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

To those asking about carry in a fanny pack.. Look up the 6 second rule. There are CCW packs designed just as you asked. Gun in one side loaded mag in the other. The question is if attacked are you going get it loaded in 6 sec. A grwon man running will make up 21 ft in less then 6.. Either way it is legal but I would have a copy of the law in said fanny pack and a notary with my lawyer on speed dial.

As others have said, to transport in this fashion is not legal everywhere in Illinois.  Choosing to transport in
this manner, one must know local and county ordinances when traveling throughout the state.  It could involve
arrest and very expensive legal fees.

[TyGuy]

Molly B., on 17 February 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

rock4xfab, on 16 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

To those asking about carry in a fanny pack.. Look up the 6 second rule. There are CCW packs designed just as you asked. Gun in one side loaded mag in the other. The question is if attacked are you going get it loaded in 6 sec. A grwon man running will make up 21 ft in less then 6.. Either way it is legal but I would have a copy of the law in said fanny pack and a notary with my lawyer on speed dial.

As others have said, to transport in this fashion is not legal everywhere in Illinois.  Choosing to transport in
this manner, one must know local and county ordinances when traveling throughout the state.  It could involve
arrest and very expensive legal fees.

+1 well said.  Just as only you can prevent forest fires, only you are responsible for carrying a firearm on yourself.  You must know the law and be prepared to deal with arrest and a legal battle even if what you are doing is perfectly legal for that locale.  Hopefully this will no longer be the case soon.

I know that 6 seconds to safety won't help if a person is directly confronted (robbery, etc...) but in the case of a mass shooting (NIU, Lane Bryant, Lubby's, etc...) unless you are the first person attacked you'll probably be able to get armed.  Whether you use that to escape or to try and stop the attacker is a whole other debate to not be entered into here, but at least you'd have more at your disposal than harsh language.

As the knight guarding the holy grail stated, "choose, but choose wisely."

[kurt555gs]

I wish some one would make an Illinois map showing the legal area's to "container transport" along with a list of do's and don'ts. Actually this would be a great app for smart phones using the internal GPS that would give a distinctive beep when approaching enemy territory.

Container Transport is really all we have in Illinois for self defense. I think it needs more attention. Actually I think it needs it's own section, like Training, or Gear. Just sayin'

Edited by kurt555gs, 17 February 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Uncle Harley]

kurt555gs, on 17 February 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I wish some one would make an Illinois map showing the legal area's to "container transport" along with a list of do's and don'ts. Actually this would be a great app for smart phones using the internal GPS that would give a distinctive beep when approaching enemy territory.

Container Transport is really all we have in Illinois for self defense. I think it needs more attention. Actually I think it needs it's own section, like Training, or Gear. Just sayin'

Here is a pretty good list of the areas that have local ordinances that are more restrictive than state law.   Some effect the container carry, others not so much.   It's a good place to start. Then there are all of the Fed requirements  such as Federal Buildings etc. Look up people vs Brewer  I believe. SHe got off on the case charge, but was still charged with having a firearm in a court building.

[samy12386]

kurt555gs, on 17 February 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I wish some one would make an Illinois map showing the legal area's to "container transport" along with a list of do's and don'ts. Actually this would be a great app for smart phones using the internal GPS that would give a distinctive beep when approaching enemy territory.

Container Transport is really all we have in Illinois for self defense. I think it needs more attention. Actually I think it needs it's own section, like Training, or Gear. Just sayin'

Lmao @ enemy territory. I would buy that app. XWING are you reading this?

Edited by samy12386, 02 March 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Sigma]

this type of carry does nothing for me, I have to drop kids off at daycare which screws me under the 1000 feet rule

[GP100Wii]

Here's my specific transport question:

Vehicle transport of:
-Take down rifle (say, a 10-22 takedown)
-In a backback (unloaded, with ammunition in same backpack)
-In the trunk of your car
-In Chicago

If this item were discovered by police (doesn't have to be a pullover, what if your car is stolen or you get in an accident and it's uncovered then?), are you legal?

[Yas]

GP100Wii, on 28 June 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Here's my specific transport question:

Vehicle transport of:
-Take down rifle (say, a 10-22 takedown)
-In a backback (unloaded, with ammunition in same backpack)
-In the trunk of your car
-In Chicago

If this item were discovered by police (doesn't have to be a pullover, what if your car is stolen or you get in an accident and it's uncovered then?), are you legal?

Hmm  I see your getting real specific.  

1. are you a Chicago resident?
A.. is rifle legally registered in accordance with  Chicago's draconian laws?

2. If not a chicago resident,  are you traveling thru Chi town  from point a to b while in this transportation mode?

This Back pack gives me a thought as being a bit of a stumbling block.     But Todd V has posted here in the past that

Quote

Under the UUW statute, there is no qualifier that the case be designed for a gun. It was argued and rejected. The plain language of statute says any case.

Post #64

http://illinoiscarry...&st=60&start=60

[soundguy]

Six Seconds to Safety... I've never participated in an IDPA match, but perhaps an SStS course could be fun? When you hit the Chicago stage you'd have six seconds to comply with transport laws.

[Vaden]

soundguy, on 29 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Six Seconds to Safety... I've never participated in an IDPA match, but perhaps an SStS course could be fun? When you hit the Chicago stage you'd have six seconds to comply with transport laws.

I shot a stage where you started in a sitting position with your firearm and mags in a briefcase, you had to open the case and mow down the targets from behind a window but we had a mag in and +1 in the chamber. I think thats pretty much a set IDPA rule that you start out each course with division capacity +1, but you could probably adjust it in non sanctioned matches.

[GP100Wii]

Yas, on 29 June 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

GP100Wii, on 28 June 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Here's my specific transport question:

Vehicle transport of:
-Take down rifle (say, a 10-22 takedown)
-In a backback (unloaded, with ammunition in same backpack)
-In the trunk of your car
-In Chicago

If this item were discovered by police (doesn't have to be a pullover, what if your car is stolen or you get in an accident and it's uncovered then?), are you legal?

Hmm  I see your getting real specific.  

1. are you a Chicago resident?
A.. is rifle legally registered in accordance with  Chicago's draconian laws?

2. If not a chicago resident,  are you traveling thru Chi town  from point a to b while in this transportation mode?

This Back pack gives me a thought as being a bit of a stumbling block. But Todd V has posted here in the past that

Quote

Under the UUW statute, there is no qualifier that the case be designed for a gun. It was argued and rejected. The plain language of statute says any case.

Post #64

http://illinoiscarry...&st=60&start=60

Not a Chicago resident (and I'm completely legal 100% with what I own in terms of FOID / registration etc).  But, what if I were driving through Chicago (let's say I get up in the morning and want to go to the range in the afternoon.  Had an errand to run in Chicago beforehand).

If there's any doubt, I wouldn't do it.  No sense in risking such a thing.

Edited by GP100Wii, 29 June 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[mailterry]

blackhalo, on 07 July 2011 - 03:05 PM, said:

My carry piece is always inside a soft, zippershut case, with 2 loaded magazines inside, and inside my glovebox.  That way, if I have to open the glovebox for any reason, I'm still in compliance.

can this be carried in the car all the time. Or is it only to go to the range or gunsmith   things like that?

[abolt243]

mailterry, on 17 July 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

blackhalo, on 07 July 2011 - 03:05 PM, said:

My carry piece is always inside a soft, zippershut case, with 2 loaded magazines inside, and inside my glovebox.  That way, if I have to open the glovebox for any reason, I'm still in compliance.

can this be carried in the car all the time. Or is it only to go to the range or gunsmith   things like that?

Anytime, no restrictions by state law.  Be aware, some communities (Chicago, Oak Park) may have local ordinances more restrictive.

[junglebob]

I got an interesting email from the Heartland Training Team.  It had a letter from the Office of the State's Attorney for Madison County Illinois.
It was titled Right to Concealed Firearm in a vehicle

The title is a little misleading, but the State's Attorney says that pursuant to the decision of the Illinois Supreme Court in the case of People vs. Diggins, it is lawful for a citizen with a valid FOID card to carry a handgun and ammunition in the center console of a vehicle - so long as the ammuntion is not in the gun and the center console remains closed during transport. The ammuniton may be kept ready-to-use (i.e. magazine or speed loader) and in the same as the gun but no ammunition may be loaded in the firearm. If the gun is to be removed from the vehicle, it must be secured in another closed container and remain unloaded. Illinois does not require that the console or other case be locked.

I cannot express strongly enough the importance of the center console remaining closed at all times, unless requested by law enforcement to open it- or in the event of an emergency.  It is essential that individuals cooperate with any police officer and inform them of the presence of the weapon prior to opening the console......

The letter ends with-
I will continue to fight to protect citizens by ensuring proper enforcement of existing laws and do everything I can to help change laws that interfere with our rights enshrined in the Constitution.


Here is a States Attorney who seems to be on our side. I know a lot of us know this info, it was nice to see a states attorney willing to give it out to the public.