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FOID CARD - mental illness / medical facility definitions


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#1 laser331

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:31 AM

So here is my question:

What exactly is meant by:
3. In the past 5 years, have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness?

Does this apply to someone who is on an anti-depressant which they get through prescriptions by visiting a doctor who's office could be "medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness" Or is this just a fancy way of saying "have you been an inpatient in a hospital psychiatric ward"?

Thanks for the help, I would ask the state police and... but then again that would require them to pick up the phone when i call.

#2 Federal Farmer

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:02 PM

So here is my question:

What exactly is meant by:
3. In the past 5 years, have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness?

Does this apply to someone who is on an anti-depressant which they get through prescriptions by visiting a doctor who's office is could be "medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness" Or is this just a fancy way of saying "have you been an inpatient in a hospital psychiatric ward"?

Thanks for the help, I would ask the state police and ask... but then again that would require them to pick up the phone when i call.


I would say no...you are a patient of the doctor, not the facility in which the doctor has his or her office.

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#3 I Hate Gunlaws

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:14 PM

So here is my question:

What exactly is meant by:
3. In the past 5 years, have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness?

Does this apply to someone who is on an anti-depressant which they get through prescriptions by visiting a doctor who's office is could be "medical facility used primarily for the care or
treatment of persons for mental illness" Or is this just a fancy way of saying "have you been an inpatient in a hospital psychiatric ward"?

Thanks for the help, I would ask the state police and ask... but then again that would require them to pick up the phone when i call.


I think this can and is interpreted pretty broadly by the ISP. Case in point: a friend of mine's father voluntarily checked himself into a detox center for alcohol abuse at a local hospital. I think he stayed for about 30 days. Anyway, after the 30 days, he received a letter from the ISP in the mail instructing him to surrender his FOID card. He went through the process to contest it, and eventually lost. He found that the reason his FOID was revoked was due to the detox center being on the same floor as the mental illness ward (not because of alcohol addiction) and there is no distinction made between the two. That's just how the hospital took it upon themselves to report it. He eventually gave up, and lost his FOID for 5 years. Keep in mind, this was around 10 years ago. He did eventually get his FOID back. So much for encouraging those that try to help themselves. :clap:

#4 laser331

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:47 PM

this is just tough... I havent been on any medication in a few years, but I dont want to be declined because im on some list. If I am declined, contest and lose, am I out for life?

#5 SirMatthew

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:16 PM

this is just tough... I havent been on any medication in a few years, but I dont want to be declined because im on some list. If I am declined, contest and lose, am I out for life?


---


"In the past 5 years..."


There is a time limit on how long a person's past can impact their ability to get a FOID card. While it may or may not be expunged from their medical records, it can't be used as a reason to reject their FOID application after five years.

"...have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility used primarily for the care or treatment of persons for mental illness?"

The content below is my own opinion, not confirmed as fact, but this is how I interpret it:

This could mean a voluntary decision to check themselves into a rehab facility (which deals primarily with mental health issues such as alcoholism, addictions of various types, suicidal tendencies, etc) or an involuntary stay at a similar location for detox (e.g. if they were found passed out on someone's front lawn after drinking too much and paramedics took them to the psych ward of the hospital for treatment of alcohol poisoning).

If a person were to visit a psychiatrist (who specializes in mental illnesses, addictions, alcoholism, etc) then this restriction might apply. It would probably not apply if the psychiatrist primarily provides something like marital counseling services.

A regular family practice doctor treats patients of all kinds and does not primarily treat mental illness, but he can prescribe anti-depressants if and when necessary. An OB-GYNE can do the same to treat postpartum depression, but his specialty is not mental health. In this case, I would think this restriction would not apply even if a person had been receiving anti-depressants from these kinds of doctors for years. However, they may refer such a patient to a mental health psychiatrist and after that visit (to the mental health professional) the restriction would probably apply.

Doesn't it seem strange, as it is worded, a person has to fear seeking the professional help they might really need because they fear losing their 2A rights?

I can't speak on behalf of the ISP, but I imagine they would probably err on the side of caution if any red flags showed up about an applicant.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.

#6 Fido

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:53 PM

Sir Matt, I feel the need to correct you slightly on your speculations. Paramedics do not take people to psych hospitals because they are drunk, most go to emergency rooms and are discharged if they do not request detox.
Involuntry commitals are performed only when a doctor has determined a patient is a direct threat either to themselves or others, i.e. suicidal/homicidal tendencies or paranoid schizophrenic delusions.
Back on subject, wasn't a law passed re: mental health issues and the FOID act last year as a response to the NIU shootings? The answers to Lasers questions may be found in there.
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#7 laser331

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:05 PM

I guess what im asking is "Is there anyone out there who takes a prescription medication such as paxil, zoloft, prozac, or what ever other dumb names that the Drug COs have come up with for an antidepressant, and has a foid card?" and "If you are prescribed this by a psychiatrist who is in an office where all the doctors are psychiatrists and psychologists."

I just dont want to be denied and then not be able to get a foid ever because I didnt interpret the law correctly. I want to get a my own gun for sporting clays and trap before any new road blocks are put up.

#8 GarandFan

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:23 PM

I am not sure what they are getting at, in Illinois law. You might check the FOID Act itself. In your case, simply getting a prescription from a doctor for anti-depressants would not exclude you. Doctors hand that stuff out like candy these days, unfortunately. Perhaps one day they will offer a bill to cause anyone who has or is taking anti-depressants to become a prohibited person. Watch for the bill ... they'll try anything to diminish the right to bear arms, for as many as they can.

I know that federal law requires "adjudication of mental illness" to become a prohibited person.
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#9 SheepleNoMore

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:32 PM

The meaning critically depends on how the wording is parsed. I would read "patient in" to mean in-patient. I think a person being treated as an out-patient should answer "no". Doctors don't report to the state everyone they prescribe mental medications to. If they did and that was cause to deny a permit, there would be vast numbers of people disqualified. Hospitals do report patients of their mental wards, drivers that suffer a loss of consciousness, and abuse.

I am using the plain language meaning of the law and my common sense understanding of it. I think all that would happen if I were mistaken is that the FOID card revoked and the guns would have to go.
Ladd Everitt called the proposal to no longer require a concealed-carry permit "crazy. You would have dangerous individuals and criminals carrying weapons in public"

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#10 tdiller

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 07:52 AM

Yes my wife carries a FOID card and takes paxil. She has never been in a mental institution. The paxil is prescribed by her primary care doctor. When she is not taking it she may have anxiety issues.

She is not under the care of a psych.


I guess what im asking is "Is there anyone out there who takes a prescription medication such as paxil, zoloft, prozac, or what ever other dumb names that the Drug COs have come up with for an antidepressant, and has a foid card?" and "If you are prescribed this by a psychiatrist who is in an office where all the doctors are psychiatrists and psychologists."

I just dont want to be denied and then not be able to get a foid ever because I didnt interpret the law correctly. I want to get a my own gun for sporting clays and trap before any new road blocks are put up.


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