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Why FOID Card for Rifle/Shotgun Ammo?


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#1 junglebob

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 06:43 PM

I found out something I didn't know. Residents of bordering states can buy rifle or shotgun ammo in Illinois.

It seems only right that Illinoisans shouldn't need a FOID card to buy rifle and shotgun ammo either. Or do they trust out-of-staters more than their own residents?

They probably don't want to lose any sales tax revenue from out-of-state buyers.

I heard that legislation might be enacted to allow non-residents to buy pistol ammo at sanctioned events. This would be at places like the Word Shooting Complex in Sparta Illinois. They have cowboy shooting events there. Non-residents can already buy shotgun shells there.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#2 Ocellairs

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 06:56 PM

Return the favor, buy ammo out of state! :lol: Most of what you say is true.

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#3 gunnmen01

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 09:16 PM

Thats what i do, i try to buy as little as possible in Il., i work in iowa so i allready buy gas and most lunch's, usually dinner if we go out, most movies i go to, etc etc etc.... when i do buy a firearm i buy in iowa and the onlt thing illinois gets is the transfer fee....


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#4 FST_Kent

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:29 PM

As an IL resident you can buy long guns and long gun ammunition in a bordering state and they won't ask you for a FOID, because you're not in IL anymore and the bordering state isn't required to see if you possess a FOID. Just your driver's license(for long gun ammuntion) and background check(for a long gun). Waiting periods may be different too.

I would guess it's possible that a store may have a policy if you are an IL resident they insist you produce your FOID on a purchase.

I bought a shotgun years ago when I went to Iowa State and the gun manager for the store never heard of a FOID. I brought it up because I didn't have a FOID at the time. I wanted to do things right and he was curious. I told him to call my sheriff's department and that I'd be back in a few days. They explained I only needed a FOID if I brought the gun or ammunition back to IL with me. I went back to the store a few days later and actually bought a more expensive shotgun than I intended too! He had already boxed up the shotgun I was originally interested in and had everything written up.

This was in the late 80's. Before background checks and waiting perioids. I could have walked in and walked right out with the shotgun the first day, but I didn't know any better at the time.

Also, as an IL resident you can also buy ammunition in a non-bordering state if you possess a valid non-resident hunting license for the particular state you're in and need the ammunition for hunting.

#5 junglebob

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:43 PM

FST, how many states even ask for ID if you look old enough to buy ammo, hunting license or not. In my experience Missouri, Kentucky, and Wisconsin don't.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#6 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 08:01 AM

You usually have to show an ID for a hunting license. Would show a student ID in Iowa for a license and IL requires an ID for a license too. It's been so long, but I guess I was never ID'd for shotgun shells in Iowa either.

#7 junglebob

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 08:21 AM

FST, I didn't understand that you meant you needed ID for a hunting license, that makes sense.

Something else I was thinking about if you are an Illinois resident you should have a FOID to keep a firearm in your house. If you are a non-resident living here, say a student, you can keep a firearm in your house without a FOID, right.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#8 Ocellairs

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:25 AM

I've purchased ammo several times over in Indiana, and have yet not been ask for any form of ID. As far as they know, I could be from Mars, and they could care less. After the National check, I can walk out with a long gun in one day. Handguns need FFL transfer....then I'm stuck with the waiting period.

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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For I dipped into the Future, far as human eye could see; saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be.

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Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.


#9 gunnmen01

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:41 AM

Theres less gravity, so "assualt" weapons are more of a threat on mars. You have more stopping power, better range and better armor penetration. Maybe we should
send the million mongrel march and the brady bunch up there to save the martians... :lol:


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#10 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 12:55 PM

A non-IL resident does not need a FOID, like a student in your example. Unless they live in a bordering state they can't buy long gun ammo without a hunting license.

If you look over 18(out of state for long gun ammo), doubt if you'd be asked for ID. At the store we ask for ID from everyone(FOID or DL if from out of state) when buying ammo, primers, and powder whether you look under 18 or 21 or look 100.

#11 Ol'Coach

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 02:46 PM

Why FOID Card for Rifle/Shotgun Ammo?


Well, why a FOID....end of question (!) (!) (!)
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#12 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 07:37 PM

Since 1968 IL law says an IL resident has to have on to possess and make purchases of firearms and ammunition. I was only 1 then. It was out of my hands.

Wasn't there a Federal gun control act the same year. Must have been our fine state's reaction to the Fed's. We'll show 'em gun control I bet they all said before they patted themselves on the back.

#13 sctman800

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 07:51 PM

Showing a FOID card fpor powder, bullets and primers must be store policy, I have not been FOIDed for buying components in Illinois. After I put them all together then I would need a FOID but not untill.
I have bought ammunition in Missouri and Indiana, and since I am obviously well over 21, no one asks for any ID, they care less. Jim.
Kristofferson wrote it and Janis sang it "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

#14 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 08:39 PM

The National Firearms Act in it's definitions says:

The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.


From the ATF's frequently asked firearm questions:

(A5) What kinds of ammunition are covered by the GCA? [Back]

Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.

We've never asked for ID for bullets, or brass, but according to this it's "ammunition. I won't be back at the store for a few days, but I'll ask. I can tell you the store's policy is to ID for anything that has the potential to go "bang"(even though modern propellants actually burn).

#15 Ocellairs

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 11:41 PM

Since 1968 IL law says an IL resident has to have on to possess and make purchases of firearms and ammunition. I was only 1 then. It was out of my hands.

Wasn't there a Federal gun control act the same year. Must have been our fine state's reaction to the Fed's. We'll show 'em gun control I bet they all said before they patted themselves on the back.

...around that time, federal law stop Sears (as well as everyone else) from selling firearms though a catalog. I forget what the hoo-ha was about that cause the bill to pass. I know when the FOID act came into play, my dad who had been sheriff 4 years previous was scrambling too get his prior to hunting season.

He doesnít ever believe that shotguns will ever be outlawed. He just didnít realize how close that .50 caliber ban, without amendments came close to being done. A 12 gauge is .71 caliber.

I care for my dad very much, but some times he can be a real putz!

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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For I dipped into the Future, far as human eye could see; saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be.

Alfred Lord Tennyson

1842


Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.


#16 junglebob

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 12:50 PM

Ocellairs, I'd say the prohibition on Sears and others selling firearms by mail was a direct result of Lee Harvey Oswald killing president Kennedy in 1964 with a rifle he purchased thru the mail. I think that was the start of a lot of anti-gun legislation. I'd imagine if someone tried to assasinate a president with a pump shotgun, we'd see a call for a ban on those, and maybe all shotguns.

BTW, what calibre is a 20 guage shotgun?

Anyone know when Illinoisans lost the right to conceal carry a handgun, or did they ever have it? I was reading about Charlie Birger a Southern Illinois gangster from the 20's he carried a pistol and sub-machine gun. Maybe he open carried. It was reported that he showed up to serve a jail sentance once carrying his sub-machine gun. I did read about S. Glen Young being arrested in 1925 for carrying a concealed handgun. He was trying to break up bootleging.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#17 crash79

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 08:26 PM

I recently went to the Bass Pro In st. Charles with a friend. We both purchased a CVA Optima .50. This transaction was cash and carry no ID was requested at all. On the way home I stopped at the walmart in Sparta to pick up the primors I forgot. I had to show my FOID to purchase them.

#18 crash79

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 08:33 PM

Charlie Birger turned him self into the williamson county sheriff on the condition that he could keep his tommy gun with him for protection. From what I have read he kept this for one night. The next day he gave it up prior to his court hearing where he was sentenced to hang. There are two books out One is called "Bloody Williamson" The other is "charlie birger and the shawneetown dame" These go into alot of details about how corupt southern illinois was.

#19 45superman

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 08:55 PM

BTW, what calibre is a 20 guage shotgun?

About .615, I believe. Even a 28 gauge is about .55 caliber. The .410 is the only shotgun to make it under .50 caliber.
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#20 FST_Kent

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 10:07 PM

Shotguns "gauges" aren't calibers with the exception of a .410. A few hundred years ago gunsmiths came up with a way to have everyone's 12 guage, etc. be the same. The took a pound of lead and divided it up into 12 equal parts then rolled one into a ball and this became a 12 gauge and everyone could reproduce the same bore size. 16 equal parts for a 16 guage, 20 for a 20 gauge, etc., etc. I've got a shotgun class tomorrow so this stuff is on my mind right now.

A .410 is acutally a caliber and not a guage.

I understand where everyone is coming from with the anti .50 caliber legislation.

As far as muzzleloaders go, IL did consider black powder equipment to be a firearm and required a 24 hr wait. It's been relaxed over the past couple of years though. Bass Pro, Cabela's, etc. never did follow this. It was brought up by a dealer a few years ago at a dealer/ATF meeting. He asked why they didn't have to follow the same rules IL dealers did(this was concerning mail order). The ATF's answer was: They're too big for us to go after.

Go figure!!!

#21 45superman

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 11:26 PM

Shotguns "gauges" aren't calibers with the exception of a .410.  A few hundred years ago gunsmiths came up with a way to have everyone's 12 guage, etc. be the same.  The took a pound of lead and divided it up into 12 equal parts then rolled one into a ball and this became a 12 gauge and everyone could reproduce the same bore size.  16 equal parts for a 16 guage, 20 for a 20 gauge, etc., etc.

True, but if you measure the diameter of the 10, 12, 16, 20, or 28 lead balls, you get the caliber equivalents (.775, .729, .663, .615, and .550 respectively).
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#22 Ocellairs

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 10:47 AM

..shot gun "slugs" have a diameter also.

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.


#23 Trefilov22

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:44 AM

As an IL resident you can buy long guns and long gun ammunition in a bordering state and they won't ask you for a FOID, because you're not in IL anymore and the bordering state isn't required to see if you possess a FOID. Just your driver's license(for long gun ammuntion) and background check(for a long gun). Waiting periods may be different too.

I would guess it's possible that a store may have a policy if you are an IL resident they insist you produce your FOID on a purchase.

I bought a shotgun years ago when I went to Iowa State and the gun manager for the store never heard of a FOID. I brought it up because I didn't have a FOID at the time. I wanted to do things right and he was curious. I told him to call my sheriff's department and that I'd be back in a few days. They explained I only needed a FOID if I brought the gun or ammunition back to IL with me. I went back to the store a few days later and actually bought a more expensive shotgun than I intended too! He had already boxed up the shotgun I was originally interested in and had everything written up.

This was in the late 80's. Before background checks and waiting perioids. I could have walked in and walked right out with the shotgun the first day, but I didn't know any better at the time.

Also, as an IL resident you can also buy ammunition in a non-bordering state if you possess a valid non-resident hunting license for the particular state you're in and need the ammunition for hunting.

shoot i was in manchester TN last summer and bought a remington 870 and shells for it, and walked out within 10 minutes of the purchase, with everything. I'm not a resident of TN and didn't have to wait at all. they did the background check and said, here ya go. Also bought some 9mm for my pistol too.
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#24 Trefilov22

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:46 AM

A non-IL resident does not need a FOID, like a student in your example. Unless they live in a bordering state they can't buy long gun ammo without a hunting license.

If you look over 18(out of state for long gun ammo), doubt if you'd be asked for ID. At the store we ask for ID from everyone(FOID or DL if from out of state) when buying ammo, primers, and powder whether you look under 18 or 21 or look 100.

OK if you are an out of state resident, you can't buy ammo (long gun) without a hunting license, what about pistol ammo?

I only know this because i have friends in the military who aren't from IL, and don't have IL ID, but they can still buy ammo and such.. Maybe a military ID is something different??
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#25 Ocellairs

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:33 AM

Seems like when I was station out at DM in Arizona and I came back during Quail and Pheasant season here in Illinois. My military ID was all I needed....seem like this being my home state of residenc had something to do with it also, but can't be sure on this part.

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.


#26 FST_Kent

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 12:10 PM

If you're stationed in IL, your military ID allows you to purchase in-state license and tags, etc.

#27 FST_Kent

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 12:25 PM

Tref,

You made an illegal purchase in TN. The ATF usually makes a yearly inspection of records, etc. each year on dealers. Hopefully the ATF didn't see your form and left feeling everything was in order for that dealer. They don't sit there and look at every form, but just want to make sure the dealer's records are in order.

Until about 3 years ago, IL would allow us(at the store) to sell handgun ammunition to an out-of-stater as long as they consumed it on the range. Now they're allowed to bring ammunition with them and leave with what they don't use. An IL resident can purchase ammo for them to use as long as it's consumed and they're qualified to receive it(proper age basically). Here's the kicker. The state tells us(the store) if the IL resident buys ammo at the same time, they must consume their ammo on the range too! This is all in a book on interpretations the state sends the store. You won't find it listed in the compiled statutes, etc..

#28 ilphil

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 06:16 PM

Interesting...I've seen out of staters buy ammo and walk right out of the store with it.
When asked for an FOID they said they don't live in IL, showed their WI driver's license, the clerk rung up the sale and off they went.

Probably be a good idea NOT to mention the name of the store...

#29 FST_Kent

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:37 PM

Someone from WI can purchase long gun ammunition in IL.

#30 gunnmen01

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:42 PM

Is .22 long considered rifle or handgun ammo?
Either way i have bought ammo in Il and in Iowa, always asked for my foind in Il and never once that i remember when buying in Iowa. I've never been asked for a foid at an iowa gunshow for buying ammo, and the only rifle i ever bought at an Iowa gun show was C&R so i dint need my foid either...

gunnmen01
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