94 replies to this topic

[Board9]

Kaeghl, on Sep 19 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

A quick question;

What's the resolution going to be called on the ballot? Something like "Resolution #4", or "The LTC/CCW Resolution"? How is it going to be marked on the front of back of the ballot sheet? In it's own box? As it's own paragraph?

The reason I ask is, if it has a 'handle' of some sort, it makes it easier to remind people on the flyers, posters and handouts to

"Vote for Lower Crime Rates and Personal Safety.....Vote YES on Resolution "C"!!
          

This also gives us a way to identify the resolution when the LTE's start getting sent into the paper.

Yeah, it's late at night, but I just got off work and I've been thinking about this for most of the shift.

It is on the back page of the ballot under the main heading titled " COUNTY REFERENDA ". In a shaded box that says "QUESTION OF ENACTING CONCEALED CARRY" in bold and capital letters. Below that is the question "Shall the General Assembly enact legislation to permit the carrying of concealed firearms? " YES / NO

[Blacksmith58]

I seem to remember I started a thread in July about "Are we using the correct Terms???" Still available on this Forum.

The general response was to use the term "Licens To Carry or LTC!"  If we would have stuck to our own choice back in July, by now the terms "License to Carry or LTC" would be common and this type of last minute rewording or debate on education would not be necessary.

I don't have a short term answer but we could try and be more consistent with our terms. Just my two cents!

[Ol'Coach]

Blacksmith58, on Sep 19 2008, 07:54 AM, said:

I seem to remember I started a thread in July about "Are we using the correct Terms???" Still available on this Forum.

The general response was to use the term "Licens To Carry or LTC!"  If we would have stuck to our own choice back in July, by now the terms "License to Carry or LTC" would be common and this type of last minute rewording or debate on education would not be necessary.

I don't have a short term answer but we could try and be more consistent with our terms. Just my two cents!

[Gooch]

Quite frankly I am almost too pissed off to even comment on this.

A couple things come to mind.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORDING THE QUESTION IN THIS MANNER.

Someone please post their phone number so I can have a little "chat" with them.

Also, as I said from the beginning, CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!

So much for the saying "For the people, by the people"........ I am totally disgusted with this State.

Gooch

[Ol'Coach]

Well, we've pretty much had a say, and as someone wrote earlier, what's done is done, now we gotta figure out what to do about it!

[Buzzard]

As I understand, there is a meeting next tuesday. Anyone?

[Chris]

You are correct Buzz, the meeting is this coming Tuesday. Below is who we hope will attend.

polhms1, on Sep 9 2008, 07:20 PM, said:

We're hoping for a finalized one after the next committee meeting at which they have formally invited Sheriff Meyers and the States Attorney.

The states attorney did previously send the board a letter that supposedly included their reasons as to why they can't issue. The only problem with that was that they formed their opinion on that they were going to issue permits as a separate thing, when the board wants to issue permits as an extension of the auxiliary police force with more restrictions.

Hopefully the States Attorney and Sheriff Meyers will show at the next meeting, the Current States Attorney has already ignored a previous request to show.

[Molly B.]

Gooch, on Sep 19 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Quite frankly I am almost too pissed off to even comment on this.

A couple things come to mind.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORDING THE QUESTION IN THIS MANNER.

Someone please post their phone number so I can have a little "chat" with them.

Also, as I said from the beginning, CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!

So much for the saying "For the people, by the people"........ I am totally disgusted with this State.

Gooch

We're with you Gooch.  This is  something started by a group of well-intentioned county board members, however,   IllinoisCarry was not consulted beforehand and neither I believe was the ISRA or NRA.  We could have and would have forewarned them as you so eloquently put it - "CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!"

The proponents of this referendum  need to be having townhall meetings in each county to educate their voters before the election.

[abolt243]

Molly B., on Sep 20 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

Gooch, on Sep 19 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Quite frankly I am almost too pissed off to even comment on this.

A couple things come to mind.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORDING THE QUESTION IN THIS MANNER.

Someone please post their phone number so I can have a little "chat" with them.

Also, as I said from the beginning, CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!

So much for the saying "For the people, by the people"........ I am totally disgusted with this State.

Gooch

We're with you Gooch.  This is  something started by a group of well-intentioned county board members, however,   IllinoisCarry was not consulted beforehand and neither I believe was the ISRA or NRA.  We could have and would have forewarned them as you so eloquently put it - "CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!"

The proponents of this referendum  need to be having townhall meetings in each county to educate their voters before the election.

We desperately need a "Biting my Tongue" emoticon here!!

AB

[tplane37]

abolt243, on Sep 20 2008, 09:00 AM, said:

Molly B., on Sep 20 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

Gooch, on Sep 19 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Quite frankly I am almost too pissed off to even comment on this.

A couple things come to mind.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORDING THE QUESTION IN THIS MANNER.

Someone please post their phone number so I can have a little "chat" with them.

Also, as I said from the beginning, CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!

So much for the saying "For the people, by the people"........ I am totally disgusted with this State.

Gooch

We're with you Gooch.  This is  something started by a group of well-intentioned county board members, however,   IllinoisCarry was not consulted beforehand and neither I believe was the ISRA or NRA.  We could have and would have forewarned them as you so eloquently put it - "CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!"

The proponents of this referendum  need to be having townhall meetings in each county to educate their voters before the election.

We desperately need a "Biting my Tongue" emoticon here!!

AB

This one's as close as we get at the moment... Works great along side this emoticon quite often...   And tends to lead to this... Which usually leads to both of the following (in order)...  

You can now successfully determine my thoughts on putting CCW on the ballot.

[Board9]

[quote name='tplane37' post='115063' date='Sep 20 2008, 01:48 PM'][quote name='abolt243' post='115031' date='Sep 20 2008, 09:00 AM'][quote name='Molly B.' post='115027' date='Sep 20 2008, 08:51 AM'][quote name='Gooch' post='114999' date='Sep 19 2008, 10:29 PM']Quite frankly I am almost too pissed off to even comment on this.

A couple things come to mind.
[size=4]WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORDING THE QUESTION IN THIS MANNER.
[/size]
Someone please post their phone number so I can have a little "chat" with them.

Also, as I said from the beginning, [size=4]CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!![/size]

So much for the saying "For the people, by the people"........ I am totally disgusted with this State.

Gooch[/quote]
We're with you Gooch.  This is  something started by a group of well-intentioned county board members, however,   IllinoisCarry was not consulted beforehand and neither I believe was the ISRA or NRA.  We could have and would have forewarned them as you so eloquently put it - "CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES DO NOT BELONG ON A FRICKIN BALLOT!!!"

The proponents of this referendum  need to be having townhall meetings in each county to educate their voters before the election.
[/quote]

We desperately need a "Biting my Tongue" emoticon here!!

AB
[/quote]
This one's as close as we get at the moment... Works great along side this emoticon quite often...   And tends to lead to this... Which usually leads to both of the following (in order)...  

You can now successfully determine my thoughts on putting CCW on the ballot.

[/quote]
Maybe this issue shouldn't be on the ballot but do you have a better way of getting Springfield to do something? I am sick and tired of this sort of arm chair quarterbacking. We are doing our best to get this done in a fashion that works the system. You can't change stupid!!!! We are here on the front line taking all the negative crap and you are sitting there dishing it out. I don't see your name on a yard sign or on the ballot running for office. Very little pay for a lot of hard work. Time away from our families, special family gatherings, birthdays with kids and grandkids just to be belittled by you. I accept the responsibility with pride but crap like this hurts. Don't take me wrong, I respect your opinions but I for one am trying to do the right thing for all of you. You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes. The people who you speak of are great public servants and dedicated to our cause. I am proud to hold public office and won't give up without a fight. I just don't like fighting the people I am working for.

[Ashdump]

Nobody wakes up an expert on anything. It takes time, research, practice and patience to get anything right. I have voiced my opinions before. I will not get into the specifics anymore. I will simply state that from now on, anyone or any organization interested in pursuing anything, whether it be CC or something else, please, plan, strategize, seek those out who are experienced in the matter at hand and don't be hasty. Not to rub salt in the wound, but this mess could have been avoided by better planning. Let's think of this as a lesson for next time.

[45superman]

Board9, I don't think anyone here questions your effort or commitment, and I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of us greatly appreciate it.  More than a few of us have some real doubts about the county referendum approach, and I count myself among those folks.  However, what's done is done, and there's no point in people working for the same cause to be poking each other in the eye.

Besides, while a defeat of the referendum would be a setback for us in terms of momentum, and while the other side will undoubtedly try to exploit that as a "mandate from the people" against Right to Carry, I can't really imagine how that would be all that big a factor--nobody listens to the other side except those who are already firmly on that side, anyway.

In short, I'm asking everyone to remember that we're all on the same side, and that we'll accomplish a whole lot more by working together than by squabbling amongst ourselves.

[Weldor]

45superman, on Sep 21 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

Board9, I don't think anyone here questions your effort or commitment, and I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of us greatly appreciate it.  More than a few of us have some real doubts about the county referendum approach, and I count myself among those folks.  However, what's done is done, and there's no point in people working for the same cause to be poking each other in the eye.

Besides, while a defeat of the referendum would be a setback for us in terms of momentum, and while the other side will undoubtedly try to exploit that as a "mandate from the people" against Right to Carry, I can't really imagine how that would be all that big a factor--nobody listens to the other side except those who are already firmly on that side, anyway.

In short, I'm asking everyone to remember that we're all on the same side, and that we'll accomplish a whole lot more by working together than by squabbling amongst ourselves.

[FST_Kent]

Quote

You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes.

How about the people who put up and take down 100's of signs for many candidates, stuff envelopes, make phone calls, drive people who can't to and from their polling places, plan and work large fund raising events, etc. for nothing?

My family has been doing these things and more since the late 1920's.

[Buzzard]

FST_Kent, on Sep 21 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

Quote

You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes.

How about the people who put up and take down 100's of signs for many candidates, stuff envelopes, make phone calls, drive people who can't to and from their polling places, plan and work large fund raising events, etc. for nothing?

My family has been doing these things and more since the late 1920's.

It would be wise to keep in mind that some of us are more than just "keyboard commandos" waiting for a chance to criticize. Some of us have been part of the grassroots movement and have been doin' those things that FST Kent has described for many years! And quite often those people that you are trying to "help", expect to be consulted before any plans are made, and especially before irreversable actions have been taken!

[JBomb]

What's done is done, guys.  Instead of playing the blame game, lets figure out a way to put a positive perspective on this.  Lets put our heads together!

[Buzzard]

JBomb, on Sep 21 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

What's done is done, guys.  Instead of playing the blame game, lets figure out a way to put a positive perspective on this.  Lets put our heads together!

I agree with your suggestion that we all work together on this! It's too bad that not everyone shares the same sentiment. But how do you suggest we fix a problem, when we don't know how badly it's broken?  There are still unanswered questions, and those that know are not offering any answers. Before we try to "get the horses back in the barn, it is necessary to know how many horses are loose and how many doors are open! Suddenly, it seems this is being treated as a minor Winnebago county ballot problem.

Now dammit, I'm not squabbling, but I am again asking......

Did the Winnebago ballot wording get mailed to the other 101 counties as the "official ballot language?"

[Molly B.]

Buzzard, on Sep 21 2008, 10:02 PM, said:

it is necessary to know how many horses are loose and how many doors are open!

. . .

Did the Winnebago ballot wording get mailed to the other 101 counties as the "official ballot language?"

Step one:

Call your county board of elections and ask if the referendum is on their Nov. ballot - if so, ask for the exact wording.

Step two:

Report findings back here.  We are putting together a game plan.

[Buzzard]

Molly B., on Sep 21 2008, 11:13 PM, said:

Buzzard, on Sep 21 2008, 10:02 PM, said:

it is necessary to know how many horses are loose and how many doors are open!

. . .

Did the Winnebago ballot wording get mailed to the other 101 counties as the "official ballot language?"

Step one:

Call your county board of elections and ask if the referendum is on their Nov. ballot - if so, ask for the exact wording.

Step two:

Report findings back here.  We are putting together a game plan.

Copy that. Can do.

[tplane37]

Board9, on Sep 20 2008, 10:54 PM, said:

Maybe this issue shouldn't be on the ballot but do you have a better way of getting Springfield to do something? I am sick and tired of this sort of arm chair quarterbacking. We are doing our best to get this done in a fashion that works the system. You can't change stupid!!!! We are here on the front line taking all the negative crap and you are sitting there dishing it out. I don't see your name on a yard sign or on the ballot running for office. Very little pay for a lot of hard work. Time away from our families, special family gatherings, birthdays with kids and grandkids just to be belittled by you. I accept the responsibility with pride but crap like this hurts. Don't take me wrong, I respect your opinions but I for one am trying to do the right thing for all of you. You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes. The people who you speak of are great public servants and dedicated to our cause. I am proud to hold public office and won't give up without a fight. I just don't like fighting the people I am working for.

Maybe I have once again been misunderstood.  My intentions are not to bewilder any member of IllinoisCarry, nor anyone on our side. In fact, I regularly attempt to educate the anti's as well through my regular day to day activities.

My disappointment does come in where one county takes it upon themselves to be the voice for the rest of the state of Illinois. Don't get me wrong, I respect the enthusiasm and effort going on up in Winnebago County, but there are factual numbers that were obviously overlooked with the referendum. Simple numbers can help or hurt any cause. Patience is necessary for most of our carefully planned actions.  Their are many very educated members on this site, that is what makes us strong.

May the responses and input from this whole referendum ordeal be a lesson learned as to how things function here. Someone has an idea that is going to effect the entire movement, it is to be discussed thoroughly PRIOR to taking action. And just because a few members believe it to be a good idea does not mean that the countless others who disagree should have their opinions disregarded. There are laws on the books here in Illinois that have to be obeyed, regardless if they are right or wrong. We must work to get those laws changed/repealed before additional steps can be taken. Until that happens, we should not place the general, uneducated population at an even greater risk of loosing more rights that they barely had to begin with because of how this state functions.

If this referendum some how passes a majority vote, I will be grateful, but still opposed to any future attempts to place Civil Rights to a public vote. On the other hand, I want each and every member who has pushed so hard to get this referendum on the Ballot to promise everyone here one thing. I want the word of each and every one of you that you are going to fight just as hard (if not harder) to mend any and all fences that are damaged by this referendum should it fail. If this referendum fails, we are going to have to work 10x as hard to get CCW in Illinois, so I want 10x the effort from all of those responsible for pushing this referendum through.

So I will make a deal, if I can get that promise, I will bite my tongue on this issue so long as a future attempt is not made to repeat this referendum (ie after this referendum is voted on this time around). In addition, I ask that any and all ideas in the future pertaining to CCW in Illinois and efforts that use the IllinoisCarry name are discussed thoroughly and agreed on by the majority of the members involved in the debate/conversation before moving forward and executing the project. We need to take steps FORWARD, how ever small they are...taking steps backwards is usually illogical in any event.

[Board9]

tplane37, on Sep 22 2008, 04:41 AM, said:

Board9, on Sep 20 2008, 10:54 PM, said:

Maybe this issue shouldn't be on the ballot but do you have a better way of getting Springfield to do something? I am sick and tired of this sort of arm chair quarterbacking. We are doing our best to get this done in a fashion that works the system. You can't change stupid!!!! We are here on the front line taking all the negative crap and you are sitting there dishing it out. I don't see your name on a yard sign or on the ballot running for office. Very little pay for a lot of hard work. Time away from our families, special family gatherings, birthdays with kids and grandkids just to be belittled by you. I accept the responsibility with pride but crap like this hurts. Don't take me wrong, I respect your opinions but I for one am trying to do the right thing for all of you. You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes. The people who you speak of are great public servants and dedicated to our cause. I am proud to hold public office and won't give up without a fight. I just don't like fighting the people I am working for.

Maybe I have once again been misunderstood.  My intentions are not to bewilder any member of IllinoisCarry, nor anyone on our side. In fact, I regularly attempt to educate the anti's as well through my regular day to day activities.

My disappointment does come in where one county takes it upon themselves to be the voice for the rest of the state of Illinois. Don't get me wrong, I respect the enthusiasm and effort going on up in Winnebago County, but there are factual numbers that were obviously overlooked with the referendum. Simple numbers can help or hurt any cause. Patience is necessary for most of our carefully planned actions.  Their are many very educated members on this site, that is what makes us strong.

May the responses and input from this whole referendum ordeal be a lesson learned as to how things function here. Someone has an idea that is going to effect the entire movement, it is to be discussed thoroughly PRIOR to taking action. And just because a few members believe it to be a good idea does not mean that the countless others who disagree should have their opinions disregarded. There are laws on the books here in Illinois that have to be obeyed, regardless if they are right or wrong. We must work to get those laws changed/repealed before additional steps can be taken. Until that happens, we should not place the general, uneducated population at an even greater risk of loosing more rights that they barely had to begin with because of how this state functions.

If this referendum some how passes a majority vote, I will be grateful, but still opposed to any future attempts to place Civil Rights to a public vote. On the other hand, I want each and every member who has pushed so hard to get this referendum on the Ballot to promise everyone here one thing. I want the word of each and every one of you that you are going to fight just as hard (if not harder) to mend any and all fences that are damaged by this referendum should it fail. If this referendum fails, we are going to have to work 10x as hard to get CCW in Illinois, so I want 10x the effort from all of those responsible for pushing this referendum through.

So I will make a deal, if I can get that promise, I will bite my tongue on this issue so long as a future attempt is not made to repeat this referendum (ie after this referendum is voted on this time around). In addition, I ask that any and all ideas in the future pertaining to CCW in Illinois and efforts that use the IllinoisCarry name are discussed thoroughly and agreed on by the majority of the members involved in the debate/conversation before moving forward and executing the project. We need to take steps FORWARD, how ever small they are...taking steps backwards is usually illogical in any event.

What we really need people to understand is that the members of the Winnebago County Board and every other county board has more on their plate then this issue. You can't imagine the other items we have to sort through of a monthly basis. I know that many of you reading this are very active on certain issues and I have adopted most of you as friends. We have to divide our efforts on public safety, forest preserve, zoning, finance, public works, the court system, among just some of what we do. Agreeable, not all members are as dedicated to every topic as they should be but we all work hard no matter what party we represent. We are solid on CCW and we will pass it on the floor shortly. I think if we hold that vote off to right before the election, it will put the topic out in front of everything. I am sorry I get so wound up when I read some of the messages that criticize our efforts when it is unknown how things got to that point. I have said it before and I will say it again, I wish I had been on the sub committee for CCW. Please TPlane, contact me through personal message's if you have concerns that poit directly to the board. I would appreciate that.

[Kenny]

Go buy some yard signs & put up all over town Big Chris came up with the design & I put them on Cafepress.com. Here is the link

[Buzzard]

Is there a sub-committee meeting tonight and what is the time and place?

[Chris]

Tonight at 5:30

404 Elm St
Rockford, IL

Room 303

I will not be able to attend but this is a big meeting, I suggest you attend.

[Buzzard]

Big Chris, on Sep 23 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

I will not be able to attend but this is a big meeting, I suggest you attend.

I'm glad I did! I've never seen an out of body occurance before, but DAMN Chris, I'm sure you were there!

[Buzzard]

Big Chris, on Sep 23 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

I will not be able to attend but this is a big meeting, I suggest you attend.

I'm glad I did! I've never seen an out of body occurance before, but DAMN Chris, I'm sure you were there!

[Buzzard]

Buzzard, on Sep 24 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

Big Chris, on Sep 23 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

I will not be able to attend but this is a big meeting, I suggest you attend.

I'm glad I did! I've never seen an out of body occurance before, but DAMN Chris, I'm sure you were there!

WHOA!! That's creepy!!  I think I just did!!

[Chris]

Buzzard, on Sep 24 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

Big Chris, on Sep 23 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

I will not be able to attend but this is a big meeting, I suggest you attend.

I'm glad I did! I've never seen an out of body occurance before, but DAMN Chris, I'm sure you were there!

I got lucky and didn't have to make a work obligation after all, I was very glad I made it since I think alot got done yesterday.

[Gooch]

Maybe this issue shouldn't be on the ballot but do you have a better way of getting Springfield to do something? I am sick and tired of this sort of arm chair quarterbacking. We are doing our best to get this done in a fashion that works the system. You can't change stupid!!!! We are here on the front line taking all the negative crap and you are sitting there dishing it out. I don't see your name on a yard sign or on the ballot running for office. Very little pay for a lot of hard work. Time away from our families, special family gatherings, birthdays with kids and grandkids just to be belittled by you. I accept the responsibility with pride but crap like this hurts. Don't take me wrong, I respect your opinions but I for one am trying to do the right thing for all of you. You have no idea how things work until you actually walk in our shoes. The people who you speak of are great public servants and dedicated to our cause. I am proud to hold public office and won't give up without a fight. I just don't like fighting the people I am working for.


Hey Fred,

My "rant" was in NO way aimed at you sir. You have done an outstanding job and I am very grateful all of your support and effort. You will get my vote for ANY future office you choose to run for. I sincerely apologize for this misunderstanding.  
I think it's fair to say I was a little "disgusted" when I saw the wording of the referendum mainly because if this thing fails, it will set us back BIG TIME! Quite frankly, it is a gamble I would not prefer to take. However, I thought I had seen a post (can't find it now) that said they could change a candidates name if there were some sort of typo, but they won't re-word the CCW question? This is really the thing that sent me over the edge. Why is it that they will change a typo, but they can't change the CCW wording? Sounds to me like their motive is suspect. That is why I wanted to "have a little chat" with the responsible party.

Am I missing something here? Why can they correct a typo and not a referendum question?

I hope and pray that it passes. If it does I will eat worms. But there are a lot of sheeple in this community that are going to look at that question the way that it is worded and say "hell no" (IMHO)

I hope I am wrong.

Gooch