80 replies to this topic

[Kaeghl]

Okay, the tight feeling in the chest has disappeared. The County CCW is going to happen, and hopefully happen soon. This referendum on the ballot in November is just a sort of poll to show the State that we're serious about this. Gotcha.

Now all we need to do is start canvassing the county with bulletin board notices, handouts, flyers and leaflets to explain the facts to the voting public. I might suggest making all these colorfull and eye-catching, but at the same time, emphasizing the fact that we are local people, a hometown grassroots movement, not some slick "City-Slicker PR firm with all our outta-town attitudes" as the Anti's would employ.

And don't doubt for a moment that the Anti's aren't brainstorming on how to kill this on the ballot, and would more than likely pull out all the stops. I'd not be surprised to see (NOT!!!) Rev J Jackson and (NOT!!!) Rev Phleger doing TV and Radio Propaganda infomercials. For some reason, gun rights questions seem to bring all the anti-rights crowd out of the woodwork, even when they aren't especially needed.

Hell, a couple years ago, Rep. Jefferson (very anti, very much in Daley's pocket) had a four color brochure mailed to every voting address in his district highlighting his anti-rights stance before an election. And he was un-opposed!!!

Any chance on getting some factual and educational PSA's filmed and broadcast before the election? This referendum won't mean a lot to the CCW law here, but it's the possible public relations debaucle that would endue should it be close or even be get a lot of votes against it in Nov.

[Board9]

Traken, on Jul 11 2008, 01:44 PM, said:

I just want to reiterate what Kenny said again, as well. The vote on the ballot isn't asking the citizens to pass CCW. That will be decided on by the board. The vote is merely to hopefully show the state that the county wants CC for the entire state.

If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me, but that was the impression I've had from talking to board members and whatnot.

Your impression is correct!!!!!!!!

[Board9]

Kaeghl, on Jul 11 2008, 02:32 PM, said:

Okay, the tight feeling in the chest has disappeared. The County CCW is going to happen, and hopefully happen soon. This referendum on the ballot in November is just a sort of poll to show the State that we're serious about this. Gotcha.

Now all we need to do is start canvassing the county with bulletin board notices, handouts, flyers and leaflets to explain the facts to the voting public. I might suggest making all these colorfull and eye-catching, but at the same time, emphasizing the fact that we are local people, a hometown grassroots movement, not some slick "City-Slicker PR firm with all our outta-town attitudes" as the Anti's would employ.

And don't doubt for a moment that the Anti's aren't brainstorming on how to kill this on the ballot, and would more than likely pull out all the stops. I'd not be surprised to see (NOT!!!) Rev J Jackson and (NOT!!!) Rev Phleger doing TV and Radio Propaganda infomercials. For some reason, gun rights questions seem to bring all the anti-rights crowd out of the woodwork, even when they aren't especially needed.

Hell, a couple years ago, Rep. Jefferson (very anti, very much in Daley's pocket) had a four color brochure mailed to every voting address in his district highlighting his anti-rights stance before an election. And he was un-opposed!!!

Any chance on getting some factual and educational PSA's filmed and broadcast before the election? This referendum won't mean a lot to the CCW law here, but it's the possible public relations debaucle that would endue should it be close or even be get a lot of votes against it in Nov.

What we need is a simple bullet point pamphlet that is to the point and factual...post cards work great for that and take every chance we can to be on local talk show and not let up for the next 4 months.

[TTIN]

Ok just to clear my not-so-smart mind,the Nov. referendum is really to take a poll of the voters in Winnebego Co. to see if the rest of Illinois should be a CCW state?

[Board9]

thetimeisnow, on Jul 11 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Ok just to clear my not-so-smart mind,the Nov. referendum is really to take a poll of the voters in Winnebego Co. to see if the rest of Illinois should be a CCW state?

You have the idea....It is to put the burden on Springfield to act on the bill sitting idle. The Winnebago County Board will continue our efforts for CCW in our county.

[TTIN]

Board9, on Jul 11 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

thetimeisnow, on Jul 11 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Ok just to clear my not-so-smart mind,the Nov. referendum is really to take a poll of the voters in Winnebego Co. to see if the rest of Illinois should be a CCW state?

You have the idea....It is to put the burden on Springfield to act on the bill sitting idle. The Winnebago County Board will continue our efforts for CCW in our county.

Thanks for clearing that up for me,Fred.

[SAK]

1) Carry Resolution will be passed first

2) Referrendum to be sent to Springfield will be passed later at the Nov. election and will urge the entire STATE to go the way of our wise county

3) Supposedly a third resolution is from the board and simply urges the state to pass currently proposed legislation for concealed carry for the entire state



All separate.  #1 is the most important and is plowing ahead full steam baby

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jul 11 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

thetimeisnow, on Jul 11 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Ok just to clear my not-so-smart mind,the Nov. referendum is really to take a poll of the voters in Winnebego Co. to see if the rest of Illinois should be a CCW state?

You have the idea....It is to put the burden on Springfield to act on the bill sitting idle. The Winnebago County Board will continue our efforts for CCW in our county.

Thanks for the clarify Fred!

[Mr. Runyon]

Board9, on Jul 11 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

thetimeisnow, on Jul 11 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Ok just to clear my not-so-smart mind,the Nov. referendum is really to take a poll of the voters in Winnebego Co. to see if the rest of Illinois should be a CCW state?

You have the idea....It is to put the burden on Springfield to act on the bill sitting idle. The Winnebago County Board will continue our efforts for CCW in our county.

I was confused as well. Thanks for clearing that up Fred.

[Ashdump]

I'm like Abolt. I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but, remember, we are a republic, not a democracy. The difference is...A republic is a society that elects it's leaders to make sure that rule of law (including Constitution and Bill of Rigts) is being observed. A democracy is basically majority, or "mob" rule. Referendums pertaining to civil rights are IMO both dangerous and unconstitutional. I can tell you that once November creeps in close, the ICHV, brady bunch and etc will be stepping up their "campaign" and scare tactics. Their pockets are deep too. Our grass roots simply cannot match their kind of financial funding. I suppose it is too late to remove the referendum, but I highly disagree with it. If it fails, the anti's will most definately make a big deal out of it. They will say, "see, most people do not want more guns on the street!" Springfield will say "the people have spoken, they DO NOT want CC!" This could really be a set back for us that could cost us years. I hate to be negative, but I am just a realist.

[Buzzard]

Do NOT put this on a referendum!! Perhaps we had overwhelming approval at the public forum, but this is a bad idea to put this on a referendum. Most people do not have a clue about what concealed carry means, how many states already have it, that it has reduced crime or any of the positive effects. What will happen is the misinformed, brainwashed voting public will see the word GUN and vote NO as they bolt running like scared animals. They have been conditioned and brainwashed to believe guns are bad and you can blame the mainstream media for that. Just as we're seeing the non-coverage of the Second Amendment Freedom Rally.

Dump the referendum.

[Board9]

I believe an educated voter will vote in favor of CCW in Winnebago County. We have support from all sides of the political fence and I feel the leaders of all organizations will put the positive message to the people. I am not afraid of the outcome of a referendum because I see it as a win for CCW. I could better understand your concerns if we were a county closer to Chicago or Springfield but we're not. I trust the people of Winnebago County to support this referendum and my prediction is a 70% in favor and I believe that to be a very conservative figure. We do have to use PROMOTION not Emotion to win this battle. Thanks for your concerns.

[Ashdump]

Board9, on Jul 12 2008, 02:04 PM, said:

I believe an educated voter will vote in favor of CCW in Winnebago County. We have support from all sides of the political fence and I feel the leaders of all organizations will put the positive message to the people. I am not afraid of the outcome of a referendum because I see it as a win for CCW. I could better understand your concerns if we were a county closer to Chicago or Springfield but we're not. I trust the people of Winnebago County to support this referendum and my prediction is a 70% in favor and I believe that to be a very conservative figure. We do have to use PROMOTION not Emotion to win this battle. Thanks for your concerns.

I hope you're right, Fred, but my stomach tells me that it would'nt pass in my county, and it's more rural than yours, but I digress . You people have handled this situation in a remarkably wonderful way so far and it's all in your lap, so I will continue supporting you. IMO,starting immediatly, you folks need to get a task force together, ASAP to deal with canvassing towns and neighborhoods printing and distributing literature and etc. Leather on the ground, and lot's of it is what it is going to take to get it done. I am sure you can count on Illinoiscarry to help with ideas, donations and muster the troops. Remember, the brady's and others of their ilk don't have to do anything. They have the media in their hip pocket and they have got the resources to buy lot's of air-time to spread their propaganda, we will not have that luxury, ours will all be neighbors telling neighbors and working together, going to chilli suppers and ball games and etc, etc, etc. Thanks again for all you are doing Fred! I wish we'd had folks lie you leading the charge years ago!

[Board9]

Ashdump, on Jul 12 2008, 02:17 PM, said:

Board9, on Jul 12 2008, 02:04 PM, said:

I believe an educated voter will vote in favor of CCW in Winnebago County. We have support from all sides of the political fence and I feel the leaders of all organizations will put the positive message to the people. I am not afraid of the outcome of a referendum because I see it as a win for CCW. I could better understand your concerns if we were a county closer to Chicago or Springfield but we're not. I trust the people of Winnebago County to support this referendum and my prediction is a 70% in favor and I believe that to be a very conservative figure. We do have to use PROMOTION not Emotion to win this battle. Thanks for your concerns.

I hope you're right, Fred, but my stomach tells me that it would'nt pass in my county, and it's more rural than yours, but I digress . You people have handled this situation in a remarkably wonderful way so far and it's all in your lap, so I will continue supporting you. IMO,starting immediatly, you folks need to get a task force together, ASAP to deal with canvassing towns and neighborhoods printing and distributing literature and etc. Leather on the ground, and lot's of it is what it is going to take to get it done. I am sure you can count on Illinoiscarry to help with ideas, donations and muster the troops. Remember, the brady's and others of their ilk don't have to do anything. They have the media in their hip pocket and they have got the resources to buy lot's of air-time to spread their propaganda, we will not have that luxury, ours will all be neighbors telling neighbors and working together, going to chilli suppers and ball games and etc, etc, etc. Thanks again for all you are doing Fred! I wish we'd had folks lie you leading the charge years ago!

We are hitting the ground running. As a candidate for re-election myself, I will be pounding the streets handing out my fliers which will include CCW facts as well as my support for the referendum. I will give this issue and all constitutional issues my total commitment. What's right is right. Letting YOU down will be letting down my father and every man and woman who fought to protect our rights. I was raised to be a Patriot and I take that very seriously. Thank You for your support!!!!

[MARKHOLSTRUM]

I think if the referendum is at the county level only then it will be ok if everyone hists the streets.....statewide it will destroy all the work thats been done when chicastro goes crazy over this.


Rights shouldnt require referendum....they are inherent and unalienable.

[Board9]

MARKHOLSTRUM, on Jul 12 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

I think if the referendum is at the county level only then it will be ok if everyone hists the streets.....statewide it will destroy all the work thats been done when chicastro goes crazy over this.


Rights shouldnt require referendum....they are inherent and unalienable.

We understand that our rights are infringed upon however we have no avenue to win this other then with the voice of the people. We are not asking for a state wide referendum, we want it to be county by county and nothing more. We understand that Cook would be the spoiler in our efforts. If you know a better way, why have we not heard it? Get on your County board members and make them push for this as we are and if you can't get anywhere with them, send me all the names and contact information or have them call me at 815-708-6006 or email me at fred@fredwescott.com

[abolt243]

Board9, on Jul 12 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

MARKHOLSTRUM, on Jul 12 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

I think if the referendum is at the county level only then it will be ok if everyone hists the streets.....statewide it will destroy all the work thats been done when chicastro goes crazy over this.


Rights shouldnt require referendum....they are inherent and unalienable.

We understand that our rights are infringed upon however we have no avenue to win this other then with the voice of the people. We are not asking for a state wide referendum, we want it to be county by county and nothing more. We understand that Cook would be the spoiler in our efforts. If you know a better way, why have we not heard it? Get on your County board members and make them push for this as we are and if you can't get anywhere with them, send me all the names and contact information or have them call me at 815-708-6006 or email me at fred@fredwescott.com

Gentlemen,

I've already given my thoughts on this, I won't bore you by repeating them.  All I can say is, please read the links that 45Superman posted earlier in this thread from John Ross in MO.  Then, Google Tim Oliver, Learn to Carry and read the ordeal that MO went through to get CC and then to save it after they got it!!   And this from a state that is infinitely more "gun friendly" than IL ever thought about being!!  

Use the experiences of the other states that have already been successful and avoid the pitfalls that plagued them rather than go down the same roads and fall in the same holes!!!  

To quote John Ross, again...... " You don't put civil rights measures to popular vote.  If America had done that in 1964, blacks would still be eating out in the parking lot by the back door to the restaurant's kitchen."

The passage of CC in Winnebago county by the county board is a great thing and could be very helpful in getting the RTC for the rest of the state.  I fear the that the county wide referendum on the RTC question will not be as helpful.

I hope I'm wrong.

AB

[Board9]

abolt243, on Jul 12 2008, 11:36 PM, said:

Board9, on Jul 12 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

MARKHOLSTRUM, on Jul 12 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

I think if the referendum is at the county level only then it will be ok if everyone hists the streets.....statewide it will destroy all the work thats been done when chicastro goes crazy over this.


Rights shouldnt require referendum....they are inherent and unalienable.

We understand that our rights are infringed upon however we have no avenue to win this other then with the voice of the people. We are not asking for a state wide referendum, we want it to be county by county and nothing more. We understand that Cook would be the spoiler in our efforts. If you know a better way, why have we not heard it? Get on your County board members and make them push for this as we are and if you can't get anywhere with them, send me all the names and contact information or have them call me at 815-708-6006 or email me at fred@fredwescott.com

Gentlemen,

I've already given my thoughts on this, I won't bore you by repeating them.  All I can say is, please read the links that 45Superman posted earlier in this thread from John Ross in MO.  Then, Google Tim Oliver, Learn to Carry and read the ordeal that MO went through to get CC and then to save it after they got it!!   And this from a state that is infinitely more "gun friendly" than IL ever thought about being!!  

Use the experiences of the other states that have already been successful and avoid the pitfalls that plagued them rather than go down the same roads and fall in the same holes!!!  

To quote John Ross, again...... " You don't put civil rights measures to popular vote.  If America had done that in 1964, blacks would still be eating out in the parking lot by the back door to the restaurant's kitchen."

The passage of CC in Winnebago county by the county board is a great thing and could be very helpful in getting the RTC for the rest of the state.  I fear the that the county wide referendum on the RTC question will not be as helpful.

I hope I'm wrong.

AB

Bottom line is....YOU ARE GETTING BOTH....Winnebago County Board will pass the resolution and I see the electorate voting for it as well.

[Board9]

One more thing, We seem to be going down the path that is counter productive here. We need to focus on the solution and not the way we get to it. The Winnebago County Board will succeed with both the resolution and referendum if we can get help from you. One thing we have against us is the editorial board of the RRSTAR....read today's editorial board's opinion by clicking the following link.
RRSTAR Editorial Board Link

[Board9]

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

One more thing, We seem to be going down the path that is counter productive here. We need to focus on the solution and not the way we get to it. The Winnebago County Board will succeed with both the resolution and referendum if we can get help from you. One thing we have against us is the editorial board of the RRSTAR....read today's editorial board's opinion by clicking the following link.
RRSTAR Editorial Board Link

FIXED RRSTAR LINK

[abolt243]

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 08:17 AM, said:

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

One more thing, We seem to be going down the path that is counter productive here. We need to focus on the solution and not the way we get to it. The Winnebago County Board will succeed with both the resolution and referendum if we can get help from you. One thing we have against us is the editorial board of the RRSTAR....read today's editorial board's opinion by clicking the following link.
RRSTAR Editorial Board Link

FIXED RRSTAR LINK

This will be just the opening salvo of negative media attention that the referendum will recieve.  Your admonition for them to get a copy of Gun Facts and get educated on the issue will fall on deaf ears.  They believe only what they want to believe, facts be damned!!!  They've already converted the Pro 2A Res to a CC resolution (which it is not!) and cite that CC legislation has been around only since 1990.  Vermont's had it as long as they have been a state (1791) and Indiana passed their law in 1935.  I can't speak for the other 5 states that had CC prior to 1986.  

I'll ask one more thing, then I'll shut up and let you all run your business in your county.  

Can anyone cite one instance since 1986 (when the modern CCW movement really started) that a popular vote was cast on the CCW question that it passed and helped the passage of CCW law??    I believe that there is at least one instance where the question was voted down by the public and it was about 9 years before the law was passed.  I'm waiting on confirmation on that.

Again, I hope I'm proven wrong on this referendum thing, but I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for a big fight and a huge dissapointment.

AB

[cberan]

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 08:17 AM, said:

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

One more thing, We seem to be going down the path that is counter productive here. We need to focus on the solution and not the way we get to it. The Winnebago County Board will succeed with both the resolution and referendum if we can get help from you. One thing we have against us is the editorial board of the RRSTAR....read today's editorial board's opinion by clicking the following link.
RRSTAR Editorial Board Link

FIXED RRSTAR LINK

Very nice comment Fred.

[Ashdump]

Folks, it looks as if the referendum horse has already left the barn. We have got our work cut out for us. It will be almost a miracle to undo the 40 years of brainwashing and conditiong in a few short months. Winnebago folks are going to have to live for the cause, and nothing else, 24/7 until the election is over. It has taken us here on Illinoiscarry literally years just to organize rallies and events. All we have managed to do at the capitol is hold our ground. We have lost little in the last few years, but gained nothing. We have worked relentlessly just to break even. Changing minds and making progress requires hard work and time. You folks do not have the time, so your efforts must be a change in lifestyle. You must live the cause. There will be no time to take a break. Please realize this if you are serious about getting involved. You have literally got to convince hundreds of thousands of voters to vote for CC. This is no cake walk.

[Board9]

Ashdump, on Jul 13 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

Folks, it looks as if the referendum horse has already left the barn. We have got our work cut out for us. It will be almost a miracle to undo the 40 years of brainwashing and conditiong in a few short months. Winnebago folks are going to have to live for the cause, and nothing else, 24/7 until the election is over. It has taken us here on Illinoiscarry literally years just to organize rallies and events. All we have managed to do at the capitol is hold our ground. We have lost little in the last few years, but gained nothing. We have worked relentlessly just to break even. Changing minds and making progress requires hard work and time. You folks do not have the time, so your efforts must be a change in lifestyle. You must live the cause. There will be no time to take a break. Please realize this if you are serious about getting involved. You have literally got to convince hundreds of thousands of voters to vote for CC. This is no cake walk.

We are prepared to work for this. One thing I must keep passing on, we are NOT like other counties. Both sides of the political fence are in favor of this. We can't let up nor will we. Every candidate that walks his or her precinct will be also talking about the positives of CCW. From my stand point, it is a 10 to 1 ratio as we speak so we must never let the anti's one up us.

[Buzzard]

If this kind of "reporting" continues, the battle will be very difficult, to say the least.

Quote

RRSTAR.COM STAFF REPORTS
Posted Jul 12, 2008 @ 11:14 PM

"There are two efforts to allow you to carry a gun. The advisory referendum passed Thursday is part of a statewide effort. The Illinois Pro Second Amendment Resolution says 82 of 102 counties have signed on, six counties have said no, 13 are undecided and one, Boone, is considering the proposal."

As Abolt pointed out, the Illinois Pro Second Amendment Resolution is not a concealed carry resolution. And the Rockford Register Star, by publishing this falsehood, is not only impeding the Winnebago county concealed carry effort, it is also undermining the hard earned progress we've made with the Pro2A resolution! I have personally invested considerable time and money into the passage of the Pro2A resolution in my area counties. And it boils me to no end to see the Rockford Register Star turn it's meaning upside down to argue against concealed carry, which clearly illuminates their anti-gun agenda.

[Board9]

Buzzard, on Jul 13 2008, 12:34 PM, said:

If this kind of "reporting" continues, the battle will be very difficult, to say the least.

Quote

RRSTAR.COM STAFF REPORTS
Posted Jul 12, 2008 @ 11:14 PM

"There are two efforts to allow you to carry a gun. The advisory referendum passed Thursday is part of a statewide effort. The Illinois Pro Second Amendment Resolution says 82 of 102 counties have signed on, six counties have said no, 13 are undecided and one, Boone, is considering the proposal."

As Abolt pointed out, the Illinois Pro Second Amendment Resolution is not a concealed carry resolution. And the Rockford Register Star, by publishing this falsehood, is not only impeding the Winnebago county concealed carry effort, it is also undermining the hard earned progress we've made with the Pro2A resolution! I have personally invested considerable time and money into the passage of the Pro2A resolution in my area counties. And it boils me to no end to see the Rockford Register Star turn it's meaning upside down to argue against concealed carry, which clearly illuminates their anti-gun agenda.

I hope you stated your case to the RRSTAR editorial board as well as you did here.

[TTIN]

Well let's think outside the box for a minute.The media is screwing up the meaning of the 2A,but can't we use this to our advantage?Let's just assume that most people are already thinking or will think thanks to the bias media that the 2A DOES mean RTC.If I am right here,then most people know about the Heller ruling,and MOST law-abiding people will assume that whatever SCOTUS says should be the law of the land.

I'm thinking that all the bias media could actually HELP us if they preach along these same lines.Thoughts?

[Board9]

thetimeisnow, on Jul 13 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

Well let's think outside the box for a minute.The media is screwing up the meaning of the 2A,but can't we use this to our advantage?Let's just assume that most people are already thinking or will think thanks to the bias media that the 2A DOES mean RTC.If I am right here,then most people know about the Heller ruling,and MOST law-abiding people will assume that whatever SCOTUS says should be the law of the land.

I'm thinking that all the bias media could actually HELP us if they preach along these same lines.Thoughts?

Finally, a creative idea instead of arm chair quarter backing. Let's go after the media for the negative , not at us who are doing something positive. I wont be discouraged but some might.

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jul 13 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

thetimeisnow, on Jul 13 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

Well let's think outside the box for a minute.The media is screwing up the meaning of the 2A,but can't we use this to our advantage?Let's just assume that most people are already thinking or will think thanks to the bias media that the 2A DOES mean RTC.If I am right here,then most people know about the Heller ruling,and MOST law-abiding people will assume that whatever SCOTUS says should be the law of the land.

I'm thinking that all the bias media could actually HELP us if they preach along these same lines.Thoughts?

Finally, a creative idea instead of arm chair quarter backing. Let's go after the media for the negative , not at us who are doing something positive. I wont be discouraged but some might.

Well then maybe the referendum question should be something like "Should Winnebago County uphold the US Constitution and Supreme Court ruling that the right to bear arms is guaranteed for the individual and force Illinois to recognize what 48 states do already"

I see ballet questions in Cook County all the damn time that say things like "For the safety of family and children, should be we ban .50 caliber assault weapons?"


Why not use it to our advantage for once?

[TTIN]

I left a little comment myself. on the RRSTAR editorial page.