tplane37 Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM This thread is to be specific to the development, drafting, and implementation of local Ordinances pertaining to CCW Permits. I am working hand-in-hand with State's Attorney Jack Ahola here in Macon County to draft a universal ordinance that can be proposed in each county of the 102 counties in Illinois. Some of the language that we have discussed so far (the conversation from when Jack Ahola called me about this): -State's Attorney is the Chief LEO and Chief Attorney in a county. -Jack is aware that his support in this will have an effect on the future of his career as State's Attorney...either positive or negative...but he still plans to go full force. -2-3 pro-gun attorneys will be assigned to me specifically for this CCW ordinance. -Jack will refuse to prosecute for anyone using their Macon County CCW permit in accordance with the Ordinance. -Shall Issue CCW Permit for all those who can posses a firearm under Federal Law. -Wants to require annual fees for CCW Permit. (I am thinking maybe $20 a year??? To keep is reasonable for both the People and the County). -Proof of completion of firearm safety course (I am aiming for Hunter's Safety Course like Florida). -I am looking to allow open reciprication from all CCW permit holders (from other states and other counties.) -County Resident and non-resident permits for Illinois Residents. (different fee for non-residents...gotta have a catch to get it in). -State's Attorney will assign lawyers if Illinois sues Macon County. -Portion of the fees to go towards educating children in firearm safety in Macon County schools. (Eddie Eagle Program?? Need help with the NRA side of this one). -Open Carry Legal for anyone who can legally own a firearm, CCW to require permit. There are many other ideas, but I need some input from everyone here. We need to be as realistic as possible. I don't think we will find a better State's Attorney to help out. So let's get this one together. Abolt. I would like to have you and "Mr. Bibs" with me when I meet with the attorneys. Have "Mr. Bibs" bring his paperwork on the Firearm Safety in the class room along....I would like that in there too.
TTIN Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM When it's released,I'd like to have a copy of the universal ordinance that can be proposed in each county.
Ocellairs Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:05 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:05 AM ...when the ink is not yet dry on the paper. I will more than willingly take it before my county. I know the DA here will more than likely go for it, the county sherrif..probably not. The chief of police, will.
ilphil Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:21 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:21 AM Talk about "unintended consequences"...I wonder if Blago could have even dreamed something like this would happen when he sank that Pre-emption bill a couple years ago?
tplane37 Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:02 AM Author Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:02 AM Talk about "unintended consequences"...I wonder if Blago could have even dreamed something like this would happen when he sank that Pre-emption bill a couple years ago? Do you have the bill number for that? I'd like to have that around for reference purposes. When it's released,I'd like to have a copy of the universal ordinance that can be proposed in each county.Once we have a confirmed copy, I will post the ordinance and the associated resolution for the county board (if required) in this thread when the time comes.
Mr. Runyon Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:03 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:03 AM I really hope this goes through. I'll eat a pound of raw bacon just to see it happen!
Buzzard Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:06 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:06 AM I understood it to be that the sheriff of a county is the top LEO. The only person that has the power to arrest the sheriff is the county coroner. Now then, here are some questions: 1) Is this something that is laid out in each county's laws? 2) Does each county have it's own constitution? Tplane, as you and your State's Attorney Jack Ahola envision this, he would be issuing the permits then, is that correct? What does your sheriff think of this? Now if you are up to speed with the Winnebago county concealed carry situation, The county board is pushing the initial resolution, the sheriff says he is all for it but cannot legally do it, and the states attorney also says it cannot be done. What happens when an Illinois State Police trooper arrests someone in your county for CCW and Mr. Aloha refuses to prosecute? Will it then get pushed up to the Attorney General? I have not heard this question either asked nor answered in county concealed carry discussion.
abolt243 Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:07 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:07 AM OK, let's get started whenever they want!! I have dropped a note to Mac, if nothing else, we'll have a copy of his education bill that was on the House floor a couple of years ago. Lots of suggestions for this ordinance. I am from the KISS school (Keep It Simple for the Stupid) so I won't propose anything fancy. Bearing arms is a right, and we shouldn't have to jump through too many hoops or spend much money to exercise a right. If this goes very far, what we put together might be the basis for a state-wide CCW bill, so we want to get it as right as we can. Actually, I think the FOID card would be a good RTCL!! We can get the Winnebago ordinance from the thread here. Here're the sites for firearm laws from other states that you asked for last week: http://www.carryconcealed.net/http://www.handgunlaw.us/http://www.gunlaws.com/ Go here and order this book: http://www.gunlaws.com/travel.htm Gives you a brief, one page consensus of the laws of each state and ranks each state for "gun friendliness". Cost is $17.00, he updates it every year. Let me know when they want to meet. My business is slowing down some, so the next couple of months would be great to get this done. The more I think about it, the more excited I get!! Let's get this done and get it circulating the state!! AB
abolt243 Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:22 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:22 AM I understood it to be that the sheriff of a county is the top LEO. The only person that has the power to arrest the sheriff is the county coroner. Now then, here are some questions: 1) Is this something that is laid out in each county's laws? 2) Does each county have it's own constitution? Tplane, as you and your State's Attorney Jack Ahola envision this, he would be issuing the permits then, is that correct? What does your sheriff think of this? Now if you are up to speed with the Winnebago county concealed carry situation, The county board is pushing the initial resolution, the sheriff says he is all for it but cannot legally do it, and the states attorney also says it cannot be done. What happens when an Illinois State Police trooper arrests someone in your county for CCW and Mr. Aloha refuses to prosecute? Will it then get pushed up to the Attorney General? I have not heard this question either asked nor answered in county concealed carry discussion. Buzz, I see it explained both ways, the sheriff and/or the SA being the top LEO in the county, so not sure about that. 1) Not sure how home rule comes into play here. I think state law rules unless home rule trumps it. I'm sure Mr. Ahola can fill us in on that and has thought this out if he is interested to push it. 2) To my knowledge, each county does NOT have it's own constitution, but does make it's own ordinances re: zoning, etc. Your question on Mr Ahola's refusal to prosecute will be one of the first questions that I ask if Tplane doesn't beat me to it!! We'll see what happens!! AB
Slappy Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:34 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:34 AM Excellent! If you want the Winnebago documents, just let us know!!!
ishmo Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:36 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:36 AM Talk about "unintended consequences"...I wonder if Blago could have even dreamed something like this would happen when he sank that Pre-emption bill a couple years ago? As I recall that was part of one we compromised on and he screwed us on. Good for Blago, he's reaping what he sowed and I hope he gets a very bountiful harvest from the Rezko business.
junglebob Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:37 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:37 AM I understood it to be that the sheriff of a county is the top LEO. The only person that has the power to arrest the sheriff is the county coroner. Now then, here are some questions: 1) Is this something that is laid out in each county's laws? 2) Does each county have it's own constitution? Tplane, as you and your State's Attorney Jack Ahola envision this, he would be issuing the permits then, is that correct? What does your sheriff think of this? Now if you are up to speed with the Winnebago county concealed carry situation, The county board is pushing the initial resolution, the sheriff says he is all for it but cannot legally do it, and the states attorney also says it cannot be done. What happens when an Illinois State Police trooper arrests someone in your county for CCW and Mr. Aloha refuses to prosecute? Will it then get pushed up to the Attorney General? I have not heard this question either asked nor answered in county concealed carry discussion. I have heard that if the Sheriff is removed or can't perform his duties for some reason the County Coroner takes his place.
abolt243 Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:43 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:43 AM I understood it to be that the sheriff of a county is the top LEO. The only person that has the power to arrest the sheriff is the county coroner. Now then, here are some questions: 1) Is this something that is laid out in each county's laws? 2) Does each county have it's own constitution? Tplane, as you and your State's Attorney Jack Ahola envision this, he would be issuing the permits then, is that correct? What does your sheriff think of this? Now if you are up to speed with the Winnebago county concealed carry situation, The county board is pushing the initial resolution, the sheriff says he is all for it but cannot legally do it, and the states attorney also says it cannot be done. What happens when an Illinois State Police trooper arrests someone in your county for CCW and Mr. Aloha refuses to prosecute? Will it then get pushed up to the Attorney General? I have not heard this question either asked nor answered in county concealed carry discussion. I have heard that if the Sheriff is removed or can't perform his duties for some reason the County Coroner takes his place. A search on Wikipedia explains some of the permutations throughout the country. In some places, the sheriff is the coroner. In others, he's mostly an "administrator" with no real LEO powers other than to issue orders to his deputies. In IL, he's mentioned as the "Chief LEO", but in the next entry, the SA is called the same thing. I seem to remember the deal about the coroner taking the sheriff's place if he's unable. Again, we'll see what they say and how far they want to go. AB
SmershAgent Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:48 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 01:48 AM Talk about "unintended consequences"...I wonder if Blago could have even dreamed something like this would happen when he sank that Pre-emption bill a couple years ago? Do you have the bill number for that? I'd like to have that around for reference purposes. The transportation preemption bill was SB2104. Rod vetoed it in 2005, the Senate overrode him, and the House came up ~4 short to complete the override.
tplane37 Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:48 AM Author Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:48 AM I understood it to be that the sheriff of a county is the top LEO. The only person that has the power to arrest the sheriff is the county coroner. Now then, here are some questions: 1) Is this something that is laid out in each county's laws? 2) Does each county have it's own constitution? Tplane, as you and your State's Attorney Jack Ahola envision this, he would be issuing the permits then, is that correct? What does your sheriff think of this? Now if you are up to speed with the Winnebago county concealed carry situation, The county board is pushing the initial resolution, the sheriff says he is all for it but cannot legally do it, and the states attorney also says it cannot be done. What happens when an Illinois State Police trooper arrests someone in your county for CCW and Mr. Aloha refuses to prosecute? Will it then get pushed up to the Attorney General? I have not heard this question either asked nor answered in county concealed carry discussion.As to the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the County" he is also the "Chief Legal Advisor for the county." I read it on ilga.gov, but can't find the exact code at the moment. This will be verified when we meet with the attorneys. Either way, we are looking to have the county Sheriff being the issuing party and therefore receiving a fair portion of the fees. Our Sheriff is for CCW, but has reservations as to the requirements. I am trying to work with him as well to get his input. Jack says he does not see anything illegal about developing a county ordinance if the people of his county are in favor of it. He shares our belief that since the criminals will have guns regardless of what anyone tries to do, it only seems right that the law abiding citizens be legally aloud to do the same. As to the State Troopers...they will be informed of the requirements in Macon County, and advised to abide by said laws and ordinances. Therefore, they will not be acting "In good faith" should they make an arrest concerning someone who if abiding by the ordinance. We have no idea how the state will try to prosecute, but jack refuses to prosecute, and Macon County/Decatur LEO's will be directed to abide as well. Jack openly admitted that he may not be able to be elected again as State's Atty because of this, but he said it will be well worth it in the end...if for nothing more than to make a statement to Springfield. Once it is written, he said he has a couple of other State's Attorneys he plans to pass this along to for their counties. The biggest issue with enforcement is that no one knows what will happen. More than likely the State will end up coming after the County and it will be challenged in court. but no one really knows. These are some of the questions that I would like to ask when the ordinance is being written up. So keep them coming.
abolt243 Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:50 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:50 AM Tplane, check your PM's. AB
tplane37 Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:08 AM Author Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:08 AM OK, let's get started whenever they want!! I have dropped a note to Mac, if nothing else, we'll have a copy of his education bill that was on the House floor a couple of years ago. Lots of suggestions for this ordinance. I am from the KISS school (Keep It Simple for the Stupid) so I won't propose anything fancy. Bearing arms is a right, and we shouldn't have to jump through too many hoops or spend much money to exercise a right. If this goes very far, what we put together might be the basis for a state-wide CCW bill, so we want to get it as right as we can. Actually, I think the FOID card would be a good RTCL!! We can get the Winnebago ordinance from the thread here. Here're the sites for firearm laws from other states that you asked for last week: http://www.carryconcealed.net/http://www.handgunlaw.us/http://www.gunlaws.com/ Go here and order this book: http://www.gunlaws.com/travel.htm Gives you a brief, one page consensus of the laws of each state and ranks each state for "gun friendliness". Cost is $17.00, he updates it every year. Let me know when they want to meet. My business is slowing down some, so the next couple of months would be great to get this done. The more I think about it, the more excited I get!! Let's get this done and get it circulating the state!! ABAB, Next couple of months? He wanted to meet TODAY! But he is open for any time next week. For me to attend, it will have to be around 4 pm (assuming they don't have me on second shift yet at work). I do agree to keep it as simple as possible. Even I should be able to make sense of this when it is finished. That's what I am after. I'll check out those sites an see what I would like to see "borrowed" for our own. I look forward to seeing where this goes. I'll look into ordering that book tomorrow so we can take it with us to meet with Jack. Thanks for being willing to help pull this off. Maybe introduce it to all 3 of Flider's counties at once??? (when it's written)
abolt243 Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:39 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:39 AM OK, let's get started whenever they want!! I have dropped a note to Mac, if nothing else, we'll have a copy of his education bill that was on the House floor a couple of years ago. Lots of suggestions for this ordinance. I am from the KISS school (Keep It Simple for the Stupid) so I won't propose anything fancy. Bearing arms is a right, and we shouldn't have to jump through too many hoops or spend much money to exercise a right. If this goes very far, what we put together might be the basis for a state-wide CCW bill, so we want to get it as right as we can. Actually, I think the FOID card would be a good RTCL!! We can get the Winnebago ordinance from the thread here. Here're the sites for firearm laws from other states that you asked for last week: http://www.carryconcealed.net/http://www.handgunlaw.us/http://www.gunlaws.com/ Go here and order this book: http://www.gunlaws.com/travel.htm Gives you a brief, one page consensus of the laws of each state and ranks each state for "gun friendliness". Cost is $17.00, he updates it every year. Let me know when they want to meet. My business is slowing down some, so the next couple of months would be great to get this done. The more I think about it, the more excited I get!! Let's get this done and get it circulating the state!! ABAB, Next couple of months? He wanted to meet TODAY! But he is open for any time next week. For me to attend, it will have to be around 4 pm (assuming they don't have me on second shift yet at work). I do agree to keep it as simple as possible. Even I should be able to make sense of this when it is finished. That's what I am after. I'll check out those sites an see what I would like to see "borrowed" for our own. I look forward to seeing where this goes. I'll look into ordering that book tomorrow so we can take it with us to meet with Jack. Thanks for being willing to help pull this off. Maybe introduce it to all 3 of Flider's counties at once??? (when it's written)I've got a copy of the book we can take to the meeting, it's 2007 but will suffice. Next week might work, e-mail details coming. AB
armueller2001 Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:15 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:15 AM I'd really like to get this moving in Jackson county.
Buzzard Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:38 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:38 AM I commend you Tplane, Mr. Aloha, Abolt, and "Mr. Bibs"!! Keep us posted, and God bless you all!!
Buzzard Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:42 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 05:42 AM WOW! Are these ever exciting times!!
Don Gwinn Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:26 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:26 AM You've got that right. I need to get to work down here!
papa Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:57 AM Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:57 AM I am also excited about what is happening in this state finally. I am glad and sad at the same time. sad because my County sheriff says he believes in concealed carry but if up to him would require a 40 hr course and a cost of 500 dollars. WE have got to get this done at a state level , but by all means please continue guy. I think this is fantastic!!!!
Slappy Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:34 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 12:34 PM Where is Macon county? if I can get down there for meetings I will... I'll bring some of the CCW buttons we are using from winnebago...
w00dc4ip Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:32 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 02:32 PM $20 every year, and has to be renewed every year. I see the point but think that makes it restrictive, too costly.
Oreyeon Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:55 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 03:55 PM Is anyone going to be working on this for Tazwell and Peoria counties?
Chris Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:31 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:31 PM Where is Macon county? if I can get down there for meetings I will... I'll bring some of the CCW buttons we are using from winnebago... Looks like a 3 hour drive from Naperville, road trip?
Ol'Coach Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:40 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:40 PM Where is Macon county? if I can get down there for meetings I will... I'll bring some of the CCW buttons we are using from winnebago... Looks like a 3 hour drive from Naperville, road trip? Decatur.
burningspear Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:53 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 06:53 PM For samples of well written laws, check out the Utah and Missouri concealed carry statutes. There is no need to "reinvent the wheel."
Chris Posted June 27, 2008 at 08:53 PM Posted June 27, 2008 at 08:53 PM Where is Macon county? if I can get down there for meetings I will... I'll bring some of the CCW buttons we are using from winnebago... Looks like a 3 hour drive from Naperville, road trip? Decatur. If there was a really large meeting that you needed bodies for I'd do my best to make a trip.
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