56 replies to this topic

[tplane37]

Here's a few things I have dug up on ilga.gov that I may use as a backing source for a Macon County ordinance. I am waiting for a reply from the Macon County Sheriff and State's Attorney for an appointment to go in and see what they would like to see. Also, I have begun gaining support from the People of Macon County so that when everything is written up and ready to go, I will know who and where to go to to get the 1% required for the petition to have the People vote on this at the next election.

Being that:
[quote]A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony. [720 ILCS 5/7-1(a)][/quote], and

[quote]-A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. [720 ILCS 5/7-1 (a)], if:
(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent,
     riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or
      (2) He reasonably believes that such force is
     necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.[/quote]And,

[quote]-Each sheriff may appoint one or more deputies, not exceeding the number allowed by the county board of his or her county. No person who has ever been classified as a conscientious objector by a local selective service draft board may be appointed as a deputy sheriff. [55 ILCS 5/3 6008] And,
-Appointment in writing. Such appointment shall be in writing, signed by the sheriff. [55 ILCS 5/3-6009][/quote]And,


[quote]-Posse comitatus. To keep the peace, prevent crime, or to execute any warrant, process, order or judgment he or she may call to his or her aid, when necessary, any person or the power of the county. [55 ILCS 5/3/6022][/quote]

I am looking for any and all state laws that will allow for proof of legality. But the best thing I have found yet is that by going down to the circuit clerk and filing to petition the public to vote on an ordinance, and then with a majority, the county board pretty much gets bypassed (though they will still be involved from what I read). Any other info pertaining to laws and county codes that could be helpful in any county...let me know (with references please). I need to at least have a fair understanding when I go to talk to our anti-gun Sheriff and our pro-rights State's Attorney.

[Slappy]

I dont know if Posse Comitatus would apply... correct me if I'm wrong but deputation under this is an emergency power only and would be temporary at most...

[Silver Guardian]

Maricopa County in Arizona has a Posse Comitatus of 3000 armed citizens. Perhaps someone should contact Joe Arpaio and see how he did it.

[Kenny]

This was in the Rockford Red Star yesterday I think. Link



Posted Jun 24, 2008 @ 12:14 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Watson wrote about his concerns that anyone who would like to legally carry a concealed weapon would not be trained (“Restrict gun permits,” Your Views, June 23).

This is not correct. All states have strict parameters for their concealed carry programs. Anyone wishing to get a permit needs to pass a background check and safety course and also must renew their training to continue to carry a firearm.

I was a corrections officer and have been trained in Springfield on safety and use of firearms. I also had to pass  physical, psychological and written tests and was trained on the use of force. My class also spent 40 hours on the state police firing range on handgun use and safety.

Illinois is the exception, not the rule, being only one of two states that do not allow citizens the right to concealed carry.

Having passed the same qualifications as a police or corrections officer, why am I, as a private citizen, still denied the right to carry a concealed weapon and the ability to defend my family and friends in an emergency?

— Mark Chaussee,  Loves Park

[Slappy]

Quote

This is not correct. All states have strict parameters for their concealed carry programs. Anyone wishing to get a permit needs to pass a background check and safety course and also must renew their training to continue to carry a firearm.

Isn't this a state by state case? I want to say there are some states that require background checks and prints for a CCW license but not training... or am I wrong on this?

[Chris]

Slappy, on Jun 25 2008, 06:30 AM, said:

Quote

This is not correct. All states have strict parameters for their concealed carry programs. Anyone wishing to get a permit needs to pass a background check and safety course and also must renew their training to continue to carry a firearm.

Isn't this a state by state case? I want to say there are some states that require background checks and prints for a CCW license but not training... or am I wrong on this?

You are correct, it is a state by state basis, different states, different requirements.

[junglebob]

Big Chris, on Jun 25 2008, 06:34 AM, said:

Slappy, on Jun 25 2008, 06:30 AM, said:

Quote

This is not correct. All states have strict parameters for their concealed carry programs. Anyone wishing to get a permit needs to pass a background check and safety course and also must renew their training to continue to carry a firearm.

Isn't this a state by state case? I want to say there are some states that require background checks and prints for a CCW license but not training... or am I wrong on this?

You are correct, it is a state by state basis, different states, different requirements.

Of nearby states Kentucky, and also Indiana, I believe, have no training requirements.  Pennsylvania and New Hampshire do not and there are others, most of which have probably had carry for years and have had no significant problems not having a training requirement.  If they did I'm sure places like anti-gun Philadelphia would have pushed for it as they impose unlawful requirements on people they issue to, and take longer to issue(30 to 60 days) Doing things to discourage people it seems.

[Traken]

Ok, I wasn't sure where to post this but since it's related to the Winn. county CCW, I figured this would work.

There was an editorial on page A8 of today's Rock River Times (I just happened to stumble across it) that I have no idea how it got printed. It's blatantly inflammatory and full of baseless gibberish. Here's a link to it.

http://www.rockriver...d...13&id=20383

This guy needs to get chewed to pieces with logical rebuttals.

[Chris]

Traken, on Jun 25 2008, 02:20 PM, said:

Ok, I wasn't sure where to post this but since it's related to the Winn. county CCW, I figured this would work.

There was an editorial on page A8 of today's Rock River Times (I just happened to stumble across it) that I have no idea how it got printed. It's blatantly inflammatory and full of baseless gibberish. Here's a link to it.

http://www.rockriver...d...13&id=20383

This guy needs to get chewed to pieces with logical rebuttals.

Wow talk about having no clue about 48 other states, did you guys read this part?

Quote

The County Board hosted a public hearing on the idea of conceal and carry. I was unable to attend, but was not surprised to hear that only two people spoke against the resolution.

One thing about gun control, those who want more guns are armed. Those who do not want more guns, are usually unarmed. One has to be pretty brave to stand in front of a crowd of people who may be armed and tell them you don’t like their weapons of choice.

Then what with the part at the end, it was an advertisement.

[Chris]

I found some contact info for him, who wants to educate him?

For more information about anything call Stanley Campbell at (815)964-7111.

email: peaceman50@aol.com

[Traken]

I'm not going to do it, because if I do, it will involve numerous swears. So... yeah, probably best to have someone else do it.

I do think a rebuttal needs to be written to the newspaper regarding it, though. That stuff needs to be shot down, not encouraged.

[Chris]

I sent him an e-mail:

Quote

Hello,

I read your article that was in the Rock River Times and was wondering if you were attending the next sub-committee meeting discussing Concealed Carry tomorrow at 5:15.

If you are I'd love to give you some information to read regarding concealed carry in the other 48 states that have it and what has happened since they implemented it.

Thanks,
Chris

[JBomb]

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

[Traken]

JBomb, on Jun 25 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

While I'm not familiar with the paper, what did surprise me was, regardless of its leanings, that they'd publish such a biased and inflammatory article. Yeah, I know it had a big "these comments do not necessarily reflect the opinion of blah blah blah," but still...

[Board9]

JBomb, on Jun 25 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Stan Campbell has always been known as the "Rebel Without A Clue" and has wrote many peace articles in the RRT over the years. I have known him for 20+ years and if anyone remembers, he is involved in the Peace Store. Yes, the same Peace Store the 2 suspects in the assassination of Attorney Greg Clark last December worked at. Greg was a true gentleman and a good friend of mine and it is typical of the Peace movement to be violent.

[Chris]

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

JBomb, on Jun 25 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Stan Campbell has always been known as the "Rebel Without A Clue" and has wrote many peace articles in the RRT over the years. I have known him for 20+ years and if anyone remembers, he is involved in the Peace Store. Yes, the same Peace Store the 2 suspects in the assassination of Attorney Greg Clark last December worked at. Greg was a true gentleman and a good friend of mine and it is typical of the Peace movement to be violent.

Lovely, what does the "Peace Store" sell?

I piece of this and that?

[Board9]

Big Chris, on Jun 25 2008, 04:46 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

JBomb, on Jun 25 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Stan Campbell has always been known as the "Rebel Without A Clue" and has wrote many peace articles in the RRT over the years. I have known him for 20+ years and if anyone remembers, he is involved in the Peace Store. Yes, the same Peace Store the 2 suspects in the assassination of Attorney Greg Clark last December worked at. Greg was a true gentleman and a good friend of mine and it is typical of the Peace movement to be violent.

Lovely, what does the "Peace Store" sell?

I piece of this and that?

I just had a long talk with Stanley Campbell. I personally challenged him on several issues and told him what it was really like at the public meeting and that the antis that spoke were treated with respect and even some applauded them for speaking. I do think I got across to him that I was pretty riled up and disappointed in his lack of knowledge. He has had a few calls, it is time he has many more. He isn't happy however that I mentioned the Peace Store and affiliates of the same.

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

I just had a long talk with Stanley Campbell. I personally challenged him on several issues and told him what it was really like at the public meeting and that the antis that spoke were treated with respect and even some applauded them for speaking. I do think I got across to him that I was pretty riled up and disappointed in his lack of knowledge. He has had a few calls, it is time he has many more. He isn't happy however that I mentioned the Peace Store and affiliates of the same.

You need to get him a copy of Gun Facts... that should really help your debate!  

[Board9]

Slappy, on Jun 25 2008, 05:28 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

I just had a long talk with Stanley Campbell. I personally challenged him on several issues and told him what it was really like at the public meeting and that the antis that spoke were treated with respect and even some applauded them for speaking. I do think I got across to him that I was pretty riled up and disappointed in his lack of knowledge. He has had a few calls, it is time he has many more. He isn't happy however that I mentioned the Peace Store and affiliates of the same.

You need to get him a copy of Gun Facts... that should really help your debate!  

Good Idea, I will drop a copy off to him tomorrow.

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

Good Idea, I will drop a copy off to him tomorrow.

Its hard as heck to refute documented facts... lets see him try... and if he still is against us, then its purely emotional reasons and there is probably no hope of converting him... at least that been my experience...

[Chris]

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

Slappy, on Jun 25 2008, 05:28 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 25 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

I just had a long talk with Stanley Campbell. I personally challenged him on several issues and told him what it was really like at the public meeting and that the antis that spoke were treated with respect and even some applauded them for speaking. I do think I got across to him that I was pretty riled up and disappointed in his lack of knowledge. He has had a few calls, it is time he has many more. He isn't happy however that I mentioned the Peace Store and affiliates of the same.

You need to get him a copy of Gun Facts... that should really help your debate!  

Good Idea, I will drop a copy off to him tomorrow.

Make sure you guys are using the new 5.0 version

[Kenny]

I called him too. He seemed like a decent guy & he said he would read gun facts. I told him I was not putting him down but he is totally ignorant on the issue of guns and that as gun owners that is our biggest battle because once people are educated, they tend to have no problem with guns or gun people IF they are willing to learn. Then I asked him if he was willing to learn. I am sending him a copy of gun facts he said he will read it front to back then report back to me I gave him my phone # and everything. He seems more concerned with gun shop owners (like me) because we sell guns to kids & criminals. Once I explained to him how much of a penalty there was for doing that kind of thing & how much crap I had to go through to get my licence he opened up a little bit. He did not seem like your typical Anti he is just grossly misinformed & I think he will come around and write another article for our side.

[Silver Guardian]

polhms1, on Jun 26 2008, 06:33 AM, said:

I called him too. He seemed like a decent guy & he said he would read gun facts. I told him I was not putting him down but he is totally ignorant on the issue of guns and that as gun owners that is our biggest battle because once people are educated, they tend to have no problem with guns or gun people IF they are willing to learn. Then I asked him if he was willing to learn. I am sending him a copy of gun facts he said he will read it front to back then report back to me I gave him my phone # and everything. He seems more concerned with gun shop owners (like me) because we sell guns to kids & criminals. Once I explained to him how much of a penalty there was for doing that kind of thing & how much crap I had to go through to get my licence he opened up a little bit. He did not seem like your typical Anti he is just grossly misinformed & I think he will come around and write another article for our side.

That's beautiful, always try to "destroy" our enemies by turning them into a friend.

[Kaeghl]

JBomb, on Jun 25 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

It surprising to me this was written in The Rock River Times, I have read many pro-gun columns in that paper...

The only pro-gun articles in the RRT were written by a Mr Phil Pash, IIRC. Mr Pash was let go from the RRStar a while back because he wrote similiar articles for that paper, and the commie in charge editor was, and is, VERY anti-gun rights. It was her decision to ban all gun related advertising by private citizens in the want ads, and has often "Forgotten" to run paid for advertisements for the Pine Tree Pistol Club events, until a week after they were done.

Mr Pash did some very good articles for the RRTimes, but is there no longer. And since then, the paper has ignored the gun issues except for Stanely's views.

Sadly, the Times has since shown it's colors as a conspiracy-nut fringe tabloid, so to their mind, giving Mr Campbell a column is their idea of 'fair and balanced'.

Everything in Mr Campbell's latest article is gospel to hiim, because the brady campaign says so. He will never change his mind about guns or your rights as individuals. Simply because, to Stanley's mind, you have NO rights. His heros Mao, Lenin and Stalin said so. Facts will never change his mind.

[Buzzard]

I would like to gain some insight on how we abbreviate concealed carry.

Most all members posting here refer to concealed carry as CCW. Does that not translate into Carrying (a) Concealed Weapon just as UUW is the abbreviation for Unlawful Use (of a) Weapon? Doesn't some states abbreviate concealed carry as CWP, Concealed Weapon Permit (holder)?  I know there has been discussion on this a year or so ago. While we're analyzing this issue at length, I thought perhaps we could discuss this a bit. How many here view the abbreviation CCW as also being a criminal violation abbreviation?

[tplane37]

Here in Macon County, we are looking to use the term "RTCF" (Right to Conceal a Firearm"). Since in all reality, we have the right to carry Opne, but Illinois has yet to recognize that right since the SCOTUS ruling. I agree that CCW and UUW may be considered a description of illegal activities. Heck, a have a buddy who would be guilty of CCW if he has his hands in his pocket. Due to his massive amounts of martial arts training, and a case of self defense where the local authorities were notified, they classified his HANDS as a "Deadly Weapon" in the paperwork...I don't agree with it, but that does not alter the fact that they used that terminology.

[tplane37]

Oh, and I still have not received any responses as to how Winnebage County is claiming the legality of a Concealed Carry Ordinance when state law prohibits it.