56 replies to this topic

[Slappy]

Buzzard is right... we've got too many discussions going...

Lets consolidate all new Winnebago CCW discussions here and reference the previous ones.

If a visitor comes to the site and see all of these threads going they're going to have no idea where to post!!!

The line forms here!!!

[RancidWannaRiot]

I don't know this has been talked about.

Would people from other IL counties be able to apply for a Winnebago county CCW permit?

[Slappy]

RancidWannaRiot, on Jun 12 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't know this has been talked about.

Would people from other IL counties be able to apply for a Winnebago county CCW permit?

This is only for Winnebago county residences... but its the important first step for the state!!!

[Ol'Coach]

Slappy, on Jun 12 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

RancidWannaRiot, on Jun 12 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't know this has been talked about.

Would people from other IL counties be able to apply for a Winnebago county CCW permit?

This is only for Winnebago county residences... but its the important first step for the state!!!

...and as such, needs everyone's support, including us redneck downstaters!

[Kenny]

We now have a Winnebago county sub-forum lets keep all the discussion in there & let old threads die then when somthing new pops up we start a new thread. The reason Blaster did this for us is to have an outlet for Winnebago county residents that are not on this site to be able to chech 1 spot for all the info. I would like to keep it all here. Then I can start a new thread about the upcoming meeting and people don't miss it because there are a million posts after it.

[Slappy]

I just PMed blaster about moving the new consolidated thread over to that folder. I missed that...

we should still consolidate though into one thread if we can... its getting a bit out there with 5 or so active threads going...

[Buzzard]

We don't need a new thread every time there's a meeting, or a news item, or whatever. THAT is why things are getting missed is because there are now SIX threads. Example -  right here in this thread:

RancidWannaRiot, on Jun 12 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't know this has been talked about.(emphasis added)

Would people from other IL counties be able to apply for a Winnebago county CCW permit?

People are missing things due to the numerous threads this topic is being discussed in.

To reiterate:

Buzzard, on Jun 12 2008, 10:30 AM, said:

...look at the Pro2A resolution here on this board. Two threads. There is the Pro2A resources thread and the Pro2A Resolution thread itself. JUST TWO. We accomplished all that progress with TWO threads. And if someone needs to find something there's just two threads to look in.

As for the Winnebago Concealed Carry topic we now have SIX!!

We have too many threads NOW! What we need is organization.

[Mike]

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.  Active and retired law enforcement officers have the ability to carry a weapon nationally, on or off duty.  If the county board directs the county sheriff to deputize residents that apply and meet certain criteria, then anyone who was deputized would be a law enforcement officer and could legally carry in any locality or state in the country, including Chicago.

Maybe we would have to attend training and the county could end up with 5,000-10,000 unpaid deputy officers, but it's certainly do able and I can't see why it wouldn't be legal under state law.  It would certainly be a great bargaining chip to take to Springfield.  Think what would happen if all the green counties started deputizing any citizen that qualified.

Instead of anti's framing the issue that a citizen isn't as well qualified as a leo, we should be saying that with a little training, and annual qualification, same as a cop, we would be just as qualified.  You sell the story that it is a very cost efficient way to put 10,000 extra cops on the street.

Granted, none of us really want to be cops.  But it is another way to think about this.

[Chris]

Mike, on Jun 12 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.  Active and retired law enforcement officers have the ability to carry a weapon nationally, on or off duty.  If the county board directs the county sheriff to deputize residents that apply and meet certain criteria, then anyone who was deputized would be a law enforcement officer and could legally carry in any locality or state in the country, including Chicago.

Maybe we would have to attend training and the county could end up with 5,000-10,000 unpaid deputy officers, but it's certainly do able and I can't see why it wouldn't be legal under state law.  It would certainly be a great bargaining chip to take to Springfield.  Think what would happen if all the green counties started deputizing any citizen that qualified.

Instead of anti's framing the issue that a citizen isn't as well qualified as a leo, we should be saying that with a little training, and annual qualification, same as a cop, we would be just as qualified.  You sell the story that it is a very cost efficient way to put 10,000 extra cops on the street.

Granted, none of us really want to be cops.  But it is another way to think about this.

I believe the concern is that a person must be a full time officer to carry "off duty" and they are having trouble with that part of it

[Traken]

Big Chris, on Jun 12 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Mike, on Jun 12 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.  Active and retired law enforcement officers have the ability to carry a weapon nationally, on or off duty.  If the county board directs the county sheriff to deputize residents that apply and meet certain criteria, then anyone who was deputized would be a law enforcement officer and could legally carry in any locality or state in the country, including Chicago.

Maybe we would have to attend training and the county could end up with 5,000-10,000 unpaid deputy officers, but it's certainly do able and I can't see why it wouldn't be legal under state law.  It would certainly be a great bargaining chip to take to Springfield.  Think what would happen if all the green counties started deputizing any citizen that qualified.

Instead of anti's framing the issue that a citizen isn't as well qualified as a leo, we should be saying that with a little training, and annual qualification, same as a cop, we would be just as qualified.  You sell the story that it is a very cost efficient way to put 10,000 extra cops on the street.

Granted, none of us really want to be cops.  But it is another way to think about this.

I believe the concern is that a person must be a full time officer to carry "off duty" and they are having trouble with that part of it

Heh, then we could always be deputized and then "retire." ;D

[richp]

Hi,

Not quite that easy. The law that provided CC for active and retired LE officials is pretty specific on certain points, and would not cover folks who are deputized in that manner.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

[Mike]

Big Chris, on Jun 12 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

I believe the concern is that a person must be a full time officer to carry "off duty" and they are having trouble with that part of it

And I'm sure that there is something in the code that defines full time in such a way to exclude volunteers.  However, I recently saw a summon's being delivered in Rockford by an un-uniformed older gentleman that was carrying and had a badge.  The fact that he was wearing a gold rolex and a polo shirt from a local country club and driving a new lexus with his wife inside dressed to the T's makes me think he was not a retired, or current, police officer.  I'm thinking that maybe there is a way for the well connected to carry in Illinois, we just need to get it opened up to the peons.

I mentioned it to a local leo friend at the time.  He just shook his head in disgust, like he knew what was going on, but he wouldn't say anything about it.

[Traken]

Richp4797, on Jun 12 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Hi,

Not quite that easy. The law that provided CC for active and retired LE officials is pretty specific on certain points, and would not cover folks who are deputized in that manner.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

Sorry, I sometimes forget that the internet doesn't convey my sarcasm very well. Heh. I was just joking around.

[richp]

Sorry, I sometimes forget that the internet doesn't convey my sarcasm very well. Heh. I was just joking around.
[/quote]

Hi,

No problem -- looking at the post again, I should have seen the twinkle in your eye.

Actually, I see this county-level development as extremely helpful. Just like the county resolutions -- show that Cook county and corrupt Springfield politicians don't really mirror what the populace wants.  

Also, surely there would be other sheriffs south of I-80 who would support a similar measure. If this goes anywhere, it's a great springboard for other counties as well.

Have a good one.

Rich Phillips

[armueller2001]

When this gets passed in Winnebago, what would be the first step I need to take to get it started in Jackson county?

[junglebob]

Big Chris, on Jun 12 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Mike, on Jun 12 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.  Active and retired law enforcement officers have the ability to carry a weapon nationally, on or off duty.  If the county board directs the county sheriff to deputize residents that apply and meet certain criteria, then anyone who was deputized would be a law enforcement officer and could legally carry in any locality or state in the country, including Chicago.

Maybe we would have to attend training and the county could end up with 5,000-10,000 unpaid deputy officers, but it's certainly do able and I can't see why it wouldn't be legal under state law.  It would certainly be a great bargaining chip to take to Springfield.  Think what would happen if all the green counties started deputizing any citizen that qualified.

Instead of anti's framing the issue that a citizen isn't as well qualified as a leo, we should be saying that with a little training, and annual qualification, same as a cop, we would be just as qualified.  You sell the story that it is a very cost efficient way to put 10,000 extra cops on the street.

Granted, none of us really want to be cops.  But it is another way to think about this.

I believe the concern is that a person must be a full time officer to carry "off duty" and they are having trouble with that part of it

Why don't they make them deputy marshals.   Some cities and villages in Illinois have them and I believe they can carry full time, just like Chicago alderman, as they are under the same statute.   I came across a website about a fellow from Cahokia who served for 2 years as a deputy marshal at jeremychambers101.com/biography.html    I think Cahokia has something like a dozen deputy marshals who volunteer for 12 hours a month, without pay.

[Kaeghl]

Deputy Mashall? hmmmmm. Be on call for a certain set number of hours for simple LEO support or community-aid type of work such as crossing guard for the kiddies at the school nearby? Sure, I'd be all for something like that. With my schedule, that would work out pretty good anyway.

The LEO's always have two or three cars parked right by the school before and after school hours, I think to nab speeders or to 'just keep an eye on things'. This might free up one car for patroling the neighborhood.

[junglebob]

Kaeghl, on Jun 13 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

Deputy Mashall? hmmmmm. Be on call for a certain set number of hours for simple LEO support or community-aid type of work such as crossing guard for the kiddies at the school nearby? Sure, I'd be all for something like that. With my schedule, that would work out pretty good anyway.

The LEO's always have two or three cars parked right by the school before and after school hours, I think to nab speeders or to 'just keep an eye on things'. This might free up one car for patroling the neighborhood.

In Cahokia as I recall the Deputy Marshalls commit to working 12 hours a month, I don't know that there is any requirement in state statutes for this.   Maybe you could be security at high school basketball and football games.

[Board9]

Ok, I have rested up a couple of days and now I am ready to go again here. I was so lost and confused I was getting a headache. Is this NOW the place we will go to post for the Winnebago County CCW issue? If so, here I am if not, please point me home and I will have another drink and start over...On a funny note, I heard an old song today that I am going to rewrite the words to fit our mission. Give me a couple days and find us a singer and we will put it up for all to hear.

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jun 14 2008, 04:50 PM, said:

Ok, I have rested up a couple of days and now I am ready to go again here. I was so lost and confused I was getting a headache. Is this NOW the place we will go to post for the Winnebago County CCW issue? If so, here I am if not, please point me home and I will have another drink and start over...On a funny note, I heard an old song today that I am going to rewrite the words to fit our mission. Give me a couple days and find us a singer and we will put it up for all to hear.

You are in the right place!!!

[Board9]

Slappy, on Jun 14 2008, 04:54 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 14 2008, 04:50 PM, said:

Ok, I have rested up a couple of days and now I am ready to go again here. I was so lost and confused I was getting a headache. Is this NOW the place we will go to post for the Winnebago County CCW issue? If so, here I am if not, please point me home and I will have another drink and start over...On a funny note, I heard an old song today that I am going to rewrite the words to fit our mission. Give me a couple days and find us a singer and we will put it up for all to hear.

You are in the right place!!!

I am so Happy Slappy...Keep up the great work, we were the subject of "Rockford Raps" today. It is a Saturday morning talk show on WNTA mainly targeted to the minority community but I have been known to call in. The support seemd to be growing from other areas of Winnebago County as well.

[Slappy]

Board9, on Jun 14 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I am so Happy Slappy...Keep up the great work, we were the subject of "Rockford Raps" today. It is a Saturday morning talk show on WNTA mainly targeted to the minority community but I have been known to call in. The support seemd to be growing from other areas of Winnebago County as well.

Excellent! I do like the momentum we've created here... I want to pack every sub-committee meeting on this topic with a sea of green buttons!!!

[junglebob]

Mike, on Jun 12 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

Big Chris, on Jun 12 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

I believe the concern is that a person must be a full time officer to carry "off duty" and they are having trouble with that part of it

And I'm sure that there is something in the code that defines full time in such a way to exclude volunteers.  However, I recently saw a summon's being delivered in Rockford by an un-uniformed older gentleman that was carrying and had a badge.  The fact that he was wearing a gold rolex and a polo shirt from a local country club and driving a new lexus with his wife inside dressed to the T's makes me think he was not a retired, or current, police officer.  I'm thinking that maybe there is a way for the well connected to carry in Illinois, we just need to get it opened up to the peons.

I mentioned it to a local leo friend at the time.  He just shook his head in disgust, like he knew what was going on, but he wouldn't say anything about it.

Deputy marshals are considered conservators of the peace the same as mayors, alderman, village presidents and trustees, I think they can carry all the time under the same statute.  Auxillary police or auxillary deputy sheriffs can only carry while on duty, and then require cheif or sheriffs permission.  I think that the statute that may cover deputy marshals is Illinois Municipal code article 3.1 Division 15, Paragraph 25 if anyone has the law book to look it up.

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, won't bill you for my opionion.

[Gooch]

Here's a question,

         Does anyone know the specifics of the training requirements contained in the proposed resolution? Will training be provided from the county Sheriffs office? No matter where the training comes from, I'm pretty sure it won't be free.

I have heard that 40 hours of training would be required! Now, not that I am opposed to ANY kind of training, I'm thinking that 40 hours of training would quickly make it unaffordable for some people on fixed incomes (like my mother-in-law), or even most single parents for that matter.

These are some of the citizens of this county that would benefit the most. I don't believe any other of the 48 states have anything close to that kind of requirement right?

Does the proposed resolution honor non-resident permits from other states? Can I get a copy of the proposed resolution to look over?

Know anything about this Fred? (of anyone else for that matter)

[Board9]

Gooch, on Jun 15 2008, 06:02 AM, said:

Here's a question,

         Does anyone know the specifics of the training requirements contained in the proposed resolution? Will training be provided from the county Sheriffs office? No matter where the training comes from, I'm pretty sure it won't be free.

I have heard that 40 hours of training would be required! Now, not that I am opposed to ANY kind of training, I'm thinking that 40 hours of training would quickly make it unaffordable for some people on fixed incomes (like my mother-in-law), or even most single parents for that matter.

These are some of the citizens of this county that would benefit the most. I don't believe any other of the 48 states have anything close to that kind of requirement right?

Does the proposed resolution honor non-resident permits from other states? Can I get a copy of the proposed resolution to look over?

Know anything about this Fred? (of anyone else for that matter)

I will forward a copy of the resolution (DRAFT VERSION) if you will email me at fred@fredwescott.com

[Board9]

Slappy, on Jun 14 2008, 05:19 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 14 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I am so Happy Slappy...Keep up the great work, we were the subject of "Rockford Raps" today. It is a Saturday morning talk show on WNTA mainly targeted to the minority community but I have been known to call in. The support seemd to be growing from other areas of Winnebago County as well.

Excellent! I do like the momentum we've created here... I want to pack every sub-committee meeting on this topic with a sea of green buttons!!!

I know "green" means GO but I can't wear GREEN!!!!!! no way, no how....(too close to Packer colors for good ol' Freddy Bear) Now you know....the rest of the story...LOL

[Kenny]

You don't have to wory about making any buttons Fred. I have about 250 buttons now thanks to Fred Wescot. He let me use his automatic button maker. I really ripped through them. I have plenty for the next few meetings. THANKS Fred.

[junglebob]

Gooch, on Jun 15 2008, 06:02 AM, said:

Here's a question,

         Does anyone know the specifics of the training requirements contained in the proposed resolution? Will training be provided from the county Sheriffs office? No matter where the training comes from, I'm pretty sure it won't be free.

I have heard that 40 hours of training would be required! Now, not that I am opposed to ANY kind of training, I'm thinking that 40 hours of training would quickly make it unaffordable for some people on fixed incomes (like my mother-in-law), or even most single parents for that matter.

These are some of the citizens of this county that would benefit the most. I don't believe any other of the 48 states have anything close to that kind of requirement right?

Does the proposed resolution honor non-resident permits from other states? Can I get a copy of the proposed resolution to look over?

Know anything about this Fred? (of anyone else for that matter)

To be allowed to carry under the provision for mayors, alderman, village presidents, trustees and marshals and deputy marshals you need to take a 40 hour course the same as police and other law enforcement.   If this is what is required I am sure it will be the longest training course required for any concealed carry permit in the U.S.  Even if the same training course is required as for law enforcement, I bet there will still be numerous anti's opposed to the resolution.  Of course we could require they wear a blue uniform when carrying, maybe that would do it.

[Kaeghl]

Board9, on Jun 15 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

Gooch, on Jun 15 2008, 06:02 AM, said:

Here's a question,

         Does anyone know the specifics of the training requirements contained in the proposed resolution? Will training be provided from the county Sheriffs office? No matter where the training comes from, I'm pretty sure it won't be free.

I have heard that 40 hours of training would be required! Now, not that I am opposed to ANY kind of training, I'm thinking that 40 hours of training would quickly make it unaffordable for some people on fixed incomes (like my mother-in-law), or even most single parents for that matter.

These are some of the citizens of this county that would benefit the most. I don't believe any other of the 48 states have anything close to that kind of requirement right?

Does the proposed resolution honor non-resident permits from other states? Can I get a copy of the proposed resolution to look over?

Know anything about this Fred? (of anyone else for that matter)

I will forward a copy of the resolution (DRAFT VERSION) if you will email me at fred@fredwescott.com

Has the resolution changed since the original one was posted on the first Winn Co considers gun resolution? I posted that when County Board Member Olson e-mailed it to me.

[tplane37]

I agree with Slappy and Blaster...y'all have a mess going here when it comes to keeping things organized! the K.I.S.S. method should be deployed quickly when it comes to the Winnebago County CCW Ordinance conversations.

I recently heard of what is being done in Winnebago County through a brief mention elsewhere on this site. Then I became curious....that was a couple of weeks ago, and I am still not completely up to date because various posts are being added to various threads concerning the topic. I brought up the County CCW idea to Rep. Bob Flider here in the 101st District during our 2A Advisory Committee meeting on Thursday, he seemed very interested in the idea and he has asked me to keep him apprised as to the progress. So exercise caution, you may have politicians watching your movements with this!  (As if you didn't already expect that.) In addition, I am looking into a few things regarding the legality of having a county Sheriff authorizing citizens for CCW.  With that said, the only way I am going to even come close to having the time to stay up to date is just as Blaster and Slappy have said. TWO active threads at most. One for discussion, one for resources....THAT'S IT! I was part of the spreading the word and gaining support for the P2AR. But I would have been very limited if I had to go on a "treasure hunt" each time there was more information to be found concerning the Resolution. Organization is key to success, especially in this matter.

Also, until everything gets ironed out as to the organization side of this CCW ordinance, I am asking for someone to keep me updated. I have already had a couple of discussions with Mr. Wescott that involved a few of my concerns with the ordinance. and I appreciate all he has help with, and I look forward to helping out more on this matter. But long and short, this gig needs to get organized with a quickness. Getting a County CCW Ordinance passed in Illinois is going to be hard enough as it is, why should it be so difficult for everyone to discuss the "How-To's" and "What-If's." I'm on board now, but would like to be spending more time researching the important bits of this ordinance and gaining support for the same, rather than researching where to fid the discussion. I agree that discussion should remain in this topic, and resource should remain in the thread that is already active. Lock the rest of the threads concerning te topic out of you minds (if not locked out completely) and let's get a move on to the "Git-R-Dun" portion of this episode.