Serious (and limited) discussion about CCW in Winn. Cty

[SAK]

I would like to start a topic, but with some restrictions.

 

I believe that there is, right now, a very strong need for us to figure out the finer points of this resolution. Specifically, how, where, what authority, what "legal" approach the resolution will use. The sheriff, although 110% behind THE PEOPLE and their right to bear arms, did state last night that he can't do the permits unless the "lawyers" say so. By "lawyers" he means the Winnebago County States Attorney Phil Nicolosi.

 

I believe this presents a problem, or could, if we go forth with this without nailing this part down first. I would like to discuss other options. I would like to discuss strategies for this, and give the board some more things to consider before it's too late. The LAST thing we need is all of this effort to go to waste when the end result is a big goose egg.

 

One thing to keep in mind: Winnebago County does NOT have home rule.

 

Options I see:

• Have sheriff issue permits
  
• Have the county clerk issue permits
  
• Have the board themselves issue permits
  
• Health and welfare of the people
  
• Acknowledge the "state of emergency" we are in due to Illinois infringing upon the natural right of self-defense -- a right upon which the order and wellness in society depends
  
• Stand upon the Second Amendment and the OATH SWORN BY ALL TRUE PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION. The 2nd is clear in black and white -- it does not need to be "translated" because it is in perfect and simple English, it does not need to be "interpreted" by lawyers or anyone else. The board has the DUTY to finish what they started and stand upon their oaths of office to see this thing through.
  

The last is my personal favorite and I believe is the strongest stance we could take. We should, IMHO, also be sure to piggy-back this thing on the "Pro 2A Resolution" that was passed prior. This is sort of the substance (real action) behind those words of the Pro 2A Resolution.

 

The bottom-line problem is that no single elected official wants to take the fall for this thing after it happens. The sheriff doesn't want to be sued or charged with a crime by the state. The county clerk would probably feel the same. So who's going to issue the permits? Perhaps the board should do it themselves -- perhaps the CCW committee should do it. I don't know, I don't have the answer, but I'm looking for it. I've been talking to lawyers to try to figure something out. But any of us are as good as lawyers, with some reading.

 

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD TO DISCUSSION LEGAL OPTIONS, STANCES, AND STRATEGIES ONLY. PLEASE KEEP ANY OTHER CHATTER/JOKING/GENERAL STATEMENTS OF SUPPORT/ETC OUT. I REALLY THINK THIS IS SERIOUS IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE THIS THING SURVIVE THE ONSLAUGHT THAT IS SURE TO COME FROM THE STATE.

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MWG321]

The first things that come to mind are the Chicago politicians and speakers(i.e. Daly, Jackson, and even Blagojevich). If the state doesn't sue the county right away, Daly and his friends will. I know that if this ccw does pass in winnebago, there will be Chicago Residents like myself that would try to get one. And if Chicago residents get them, they may try to start fighting the city's handgun ban and to petition for ccw in the city. So of course, we know who may be first to start resisting this. Also, if someone does get a ccw permit, will it be just for in the county? That's one thing that I haven't been able to ascertain. Now SAK, I do love your idea of piggy-backing it with the Pro 2A resolution. That way, the counties can ban together, agree about the rules, and say, this is what we want. Not only that, but now the Legislature can't ignore it any longer like they have been without repercussion. I do think that no matter what, it will bring the Legislation down south to do something about this finally. Also, if the Supreme Court should rule for us before winnebago does try to pass it after, there may not be as much flak being thrown at us. In fact, it may be welcomed more by the state due to the Supreme Court's Decision(as well as elections being around the corner). Now, mind you, I'm still not going to include the city. I think we all can agree that the city will go kicking and screaming before allowing even handguns to be legal to own in the city. There are so many factors that can affect this positively as well as negatively. For all we know, the state may try to sue, then citizens go into an uproar, and then the state "finally" gives in. It's almost like a crapshoot.

[JKooL]

If the Sheriff will be selected to issue permits, what happens when an anti-2A Sheriff is elected down the line and refuses to issue the permit? Since the Sheriff is the highest LEO in the county, he can logically refuse or allow anything, right?

 

Without the states attorney on our side, I can't see how this could be considered legal. However, as long as the states attorney refuses to press charges for UUW on people with valid permits, it can be considered "de facto" legal.

[MWG321]

JKool,

 

You're right, and of course a good way to stop that is to get the state to back it, so even if a sheriff is anti-2a, they can't abuse their power because of an anti-gun stance. Again, I take this as a way to get the State to do something about it. And if they don't do what law abiding citizens want, November will be a "Nightmare on Elm Street" for them.

[Slappy]

There is not really much we can do except keep electing the right people, contacting our reps and pushing this issue...

 

Shaun, I'm not sure what you mean by having the politicians "Stand upon the Second Amendment and the OATH SWORN BY ALL TRUE PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION"

 

I mean we cannot force anyone to do anything they don't want to...

 

the best course of action is to do what we are doing... show our leaders we have a voice and we are not going away until we get our rights back...

 

 

Unless I'm totally missing the point of what you are trying to convey here...

[BigArtie]

When the State of Illinois sues,I said when,not if.Who is going to pay for Winnebago's legal expensives.I now the NRA and ISRA,will kick in,but beside them,who is going to pay-up.Donations?Sure.It could,might,will get expensive.Once the citizens of Winnebago County get wind the county board is spending their tax dollars fighting the State of Illinois for the rights of a few gun owners,they will demand that the County drop the whole CCW issue .The news media,both print and television,will jump on this in a heart beat.The local heat is one thing,but wait till the Chicago news starts running reports.The pressure will be intense.With a ever declining tax revenues,I do believe the county will drop the whole thing,if they receive enough complaints from the citizens of Winn Co,and enough negative press. Just my opinion.I,for one, am willing to donate.And I am sure there are alot of people in the state who will do the same.But will it be enough? Also,will the issue of permits be just for residents of Winn Co,or is it open to all residents of the state?

[Slappy]

When the State of Illinois sues,I said when,not if.Who is going to pay for Winnebago's legal expensives.I now the NRA and ISRA,will kick in,but beside them,who is going to pay-up.Donations?Sure.It could,might,will get expensive.Once the citizens of Winnebago County get wind the county board is spending their tax dollars fighting the State of Illinois for the rights of a few gun owners,they will demand that the County drop the whole CCW issue .The news media,both print and television,will jump on this in a heart beat.The local heat is one thing,but wait till the Chicago news starts running reports.The pressure will be intense.With a ever declining tax revenues,I do believe the county will drop the whole thing,if they receive enough complaints from the citizens of Winn Co,and enough negative press. Just my opinion.I,for one, am willing to donate.And I am sure there are alot of people in the state who will do the same.But will it be enough? Also,will the issue of permits be just for residents of Winn Co,or is it open to all residents of the state?

 

 

I spoke to a few board members last night... I know they have a lawyer lined up but I do not know the funding... I know the ISRA and NRA will jump right in as soon as the first permit is issued and the lawsuit filed...

[Traken]

When the State of Illinois sues,I said when,not if.Who is going to pay for Winnebago's legal expensives.I now the NRA and ISRA,will kick in,but beside them,who is going to pay-up.Donations?Sure.It could,might,will get expensive.Once the citizens of Winnebago County get wind the county board is spending their tax dollars fighting the State of Illinois for the rights of a few gun owners,they will demand that the County drop the whole CCW issue .The news media,both print and television,will jump on this in a heart beat.The local heat is one thing,but wait till the Chicago news starts running reports.The pressure will be intense.With a ever declining tax revenues,I do believe the county will drop the whole thing,if they receive enough complaints from the citizens of Winn Co,and enough negative press. Just my opinion.I,for one, am willing to donate.And I am sure there are alot of people in the state who will do the same.But will it be enough? Also,will the issue of permits be just for residents of Winn Co,or is it open to all residents of the state?

 

Something else we should think about, if the people of Winnebago County get irritated with their tax dollars being 'misused,' then the entire state should feel equally or more so that way towards the state gov't for squandering our tax dollars in an effort to quash the Constitutional RIGHTS we have. I think that needs to become an issue if it becomes one in Winnebago.

[MWG321]

"Something else we should think about, if the people of Winnebago County get irritated with their tax dollars being 'misused,' then the entire state should feel equally or more so that way towards the state gov't for squandering our tax dollars in an effort to quash the Constitutional RIGHTS we have. I think that needs to become an issue if it becomes one in Winnebago."

 

Exactly! Maybe the county as well as the NRA, ISRA, and gun owners can argue that we are not trying to waste the taxpayers money, and then to provide facts how every other state was able to pass ccw except for Illinois(and of course Wisconsin). This may open everyone's eyes as to how their elected "officials" really are. Or at least some people. Either way, it can be a lose-lose situation for the state since elections are coming up.

[Traken]

Exactly! Maybe the county as well as the NRA, ISRA, and gun owners can argue that we are not trying to waste the taxpayers money, and then to provide facts how every other state was able to pass ccw except for Illinois(and of course Wisconsin). This may open everyone's eyes as to how their elected "officials" really are. Or at least some people. Either way, it can be a lose-lose situation for the state since elections are coming up.

 

And even Wisconsin would have passed it, had it not been for the selfish Governor.

[MWG321]

Has anyone actually received an email from ISRA or NRA saying what they will do? I'm thinking about iming Cam on Cam and Company just to see what he will say.

[TTIN]

The first things that come to mind are the Chicago politicians and speakers(i.e. Daly, Jackson, and even Blagojevich). If the state doesn't sue the county right away, Daly and his friends will. I know that if this ccw does pass in winnebago, there will be Chicago Residents like myself that would try to get one. And if Chicago residents get them, they may try to start fighting the city's handgun ban and to petition for ccw in the city. So of course, we know who may be first to start resisting this. Also, if someone does get a ccw permit, will it be just for in the county? That's one thing that I haven't been able to ascertain. Now SAK, I do love your idea of piggy-backing it with the Pro 2A resolution. That way, the counties can ban together, agree about the rules, and say, this is what we want. Not only that, but now the Legislature can't ignore it any longer like they have been without repercussion. I do think that no matter what, it will bring the Legislation down south to do something about this finally. Also, if the Supreme Court should rule for us before winnebago does try to pass it after, there may not be as much flak being thrown at us. In fact, it may be welcomed more by the state due to the Supreme Court's Decision(as well as elections being around the corner). Now, mind you, I'm still not going to include the city. I think we all can agree that the city will go kicking and screaming before allowing even handguns to be legal to own in the city. There are so many factors that can affect this positively as well as negatively. For all we know, the state may try to sue, then citizens go into an uproar, and then the state "finally" gives in. It's almost like a crapshoot.

 

MWG321,I don't know what you are trying to say here;maybe I just misinterpered your meaning,but all the Southern counties are green.And if you look at the current CCW bills in the House,Rep. John Bradley has either sponsered or co-sponsered every one of them.Rep.Bradley is from Marion,dead in the heart of S. Il.. No we here in the sticks don't seem to have all the firearm problems that our Northern brothers/sisters have.

 

I appoligize if I misunderstood you.

[Traken]

MWG321,I don't know what you are trying to say here;maybe I just misinterpered your meaning,but all the Southern counties are green.And if you look at the current CCW bills in the House,Rep. John Bradley has either sponsered or co-sponsered every one of them.Rep.Bradley is from Marion,dead in the heart of S. Il.. No we here in the sticks don't seem to have all the firearm problems that our Northern brothers/sisters have.

 

I appoligize if I misunderstood you.

 

I think he may have meant bring it down south to Springfield, ie the state congress.

[MWG321]

Yeah sorry about that. I did mean Springfield. It's the Chicago water, I swear

[Buzzard]

I would like to start a topic, but with some restrictions.

 

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD TO DISCUSSION LEGAL OPTIONS, STANCES, AND STRATEGIES ONLY. PLEASE KEEP ANY OTHER CHATTER/JOKING/GENERAL STATEMENTS OF SUPPORT/ETC OUT. I REALLY THINK THIS IS SERIOUS IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE THIS THING SURVIVE THE ONSLAUGHT THAT IS SURE TO COME FROM THE STATE.

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And I think this is perhaps MORE serious!!

 

I would like to raise a point here. We (or the moderators will) have to rein this Winnebago Concealed Carry topic in and keep it orderly!! Why do I say that? Because look at the Pro2A resolution here on this board. Two threads. There is the Pro2A resources Thread and the Pro2A thread itself. JUST TWO. If someone needs to find something there's two threads to look in. As for the Winnebago Concealed Carry topic we now have:

 

IllinoisCarry.com > Concealed Carry > Illinois Concealed Carry > Winnebago County CCW

 

* New Winnebago county Concealed Carry thread

* Winnebago Board Meeting 6/10/08

* Winnebago Co. movement, as of 6/10/08

* Winnebago county online Petition

* Winnebago County weighs legality of gun resolution

 

IllinoisCarry.com > Concealed Carry > Illinois Concealed Carry

 

*Serious (and limited) discussion about CCW in Winn. Cty

 

That's six threads (in TWO areas) on ONE TOPIC!! How can we POSSIBLY keep any order to what we are trying to achieve, if we can't even hold the discussion to one or two threads?! I don't have the time in my day to comb through six threads to figure out what's going on. I realize everyone is excited about this, but PLEASE let's control our emotions and especially our POSTS! Just to make my point I raised this same discussion in another thread.

 

Link:

 

I don't want to dampen anyone's spirits, but I feel we must consider all possible courses of action. My question is what is our possible legal options if Winnebago county states attorney Philip Nicolosi stands firm that Winnebago county Sheriff Dick Meyers cannot lawfully issue permits. While Sheriff Meyers publically pledges his support of concealed carry, he has also stated he will not issue if told he cannot legally do so.

 

While I do not have any legal training, I have a times heard about long buried or concealed legal principals or standards that some say do not exist. Whether these legal avenues do remain hidden in law books or merely exist as legal heresay need to be researched.

 

Does the sheriff of an Illinois county hold unlimited power? Does the will of the people and their legal options end with a county resolution? If the county board passes a resolution to issue permits, but the sheriff refuses to do so, what are our legal options?

 

LET'S KEEP IT TOGETHER, PEOPLE!!

[Slappy]

Buzzard is right...

 

Started a Consolidated Thread...

 

Everyone go here now:

 

Link

[junglebob]

MWG321,I don't know what you are trying to say here;maybe I just misinterpered your meaning,but all the Southern counties are green.And if you look at the current CCW bills in the House,Rep. John Bradley has either sponsered or co-sponsered every one of them.Rep.Bradley is from Marion,dead in the heart of S. Il.. No we here in the sticks don't seem to have all the firearm problems that our Northern brothers/sisters have.

 

I appoligize if I misunderstood you.

 

I think he may have meant bring it down south to Springfield, ie the state congress.

Maybe we could get John Bradley or some other rep introduce a bill allowing counties to issue concealed carry permits valid in their county only or any other county that would give them reciprocity (I'm assuming other counties will follow Winnebago's lead) If this went through it would stop the state from doing anything. It would also assure that no one with a permit was charged with UUW for just carrying. It might even get some support by reps that wouldn't support a statewide concealed carry permit.

[SAK]

First off, since this was my thread, I'd like to try to throw it back on topic. I don't think pointing to even another thread helps at all. Those general-discussion Winn threads are very difficult to follow.

 

The purpose of this thread was to discuss "LEGAL" wording. What wording needs to go into this resolution so that it can hold a little weight when it INEVITABLY winds up in the courts.

 

I think Junglebob has a good idea about a statewide law. I see no reason why we couldn't pursue this simultaneously. Perhaps the people downstate and far away from Winnebago who can't make it all the way the heck up here for the meetings could work on this angle. I think this idea might work, although it will be difficult.

 

However, still going ahead (and this thing is DEFINITELY going ahead), we need to get lawyers and figure wording out for this resolution. Perhaps some more "WHEREAS..." statements in the beginning to incorporate some of the ideas we've discussed. I'm also very concerned that although the sheriff is totally on our side, HE HAS TOLD US HE WON'T ISSUE PERMITS IF THE STATE'S ATTORNEY TELLS HIM HE CAN'T

 

So we need to work on him OR pursue a different angle I think. No need in having this thing hit a brick wall after it's passed, right?

 

 

PS -- moderator please move this thread to Winnebago county sub-forum. Thank you.

[Don Gwinn]

That's a question for a lawyer to answer.

[flagtag]

I contacted Lori DeYoung - Vermilion County Board member (running for Bill Black's seat) about this issue. She hasn't responded yet. She is one of those who pushed the 2A Resolution here. I hope she will check it out and talk to the rest of the Board.

[lockman]

First off, since this was my thread, I'd like to try to throw it back on topic. I don't think pointing to even another thread helps at all. Those general-discussion Winn threads are very difficult to follow.

 

The purpose of this thread was to discuss "LEGAL" wording. What wording needs to go into this resolution so that it can hold a little weight when it INEVITABLY winds up in the courts.

 

I think Junglebob has a good idea about a statewide law. I see no reason why we couldn't pursue this simultaneously. Perhaps the people downstate and far away from Winnebago who can't make it all the way the heck up here for the

 

meetings could work on this angle. I think this idea might work, although it will be difficult.

 

However, still going ahead (and this thing is DEFINITELY going ahead), we need to get lawyers and figure wording out for this resolution. Perhaps some more "WHEREAS..." statements in the beginning to incorporate some of the ideas we've discussed. I'm also very concerned that although the sheriff is totally on our side, HE HAS TOLD US HE WON'T ISSUE PERMITS IF THE STATE'S ATTORNEY TELLS HIM HE CAN'T

 

So we need to work on him OR pursue a different angle I think. No need in having this thing hit a brick wall after it's passed, right?

 

 

PS -- moderator please move this thread to Winnebago county sub-forum. Thank you.

 

Under (720 ILCS 5/21-6) Sec. 21-6. Unauthorized Possession or Storage of Weapons. The Sheriff would be the one who can give permission to have weapons on county land and buildings. His "CCW" permit is a codified written permission to such autorization.

 

But either way if he issues the permits, he gets sued. If he does not issue the permits, he gets sued. I think the whole point is to open the question to public debate in the legislative chambers of the county board and if passed into the courts. Civil rights can not lose. We either move forward or we stay in place.

[tplane37]

Please move conversation from this thread to the "General Discussions" thread.

 

SAK, I appreciate your enthusiasm, though I often question your methods. We have been very succuessful here at IllinoisCarry in making progress with our Second Amendments rights here in Illinois. But we could never have made it as far as we have if it were not for our members remaining humble and organized. The more time a member has to spend to bounce around from thread to thread to find information on one particular topic (this instant case being the Winnibago County CCW Ordinance/Resolution), the less time each of us has to research how to get the job done. So in order to expedite and execute the deployment of County specific CCW in Illinois, please step back on this thread and move the conversation to the "General Discussions" thread. I ask all other members to do the same. It is greatly appreciated.

[vito]

I was at the hearing, but have not heard or seen anything in the media since then about any progress on this issue. And I know I will be chastised for saying this, but a number of the supporters who showed up for the committee hearing at Memorial Hall were what the general public would consider "wierdos" from their appearance. Why is it that many 2A supporters feel it is our interest to come to an event like this looking like the meanest, toughest biker that they can? I am a motorcyclist as well as a 2A and concealed carry proponent, and I know that if the public thinks that concealed carry and scary bikers are one and the same, we will get less than good support from the community.

[Slappy]

I was at the hearing, but have not heard or seen anything in the media since then about any progress on this issue. And I know I will be chastised for saying this, but a number of the supporters who showed up for the committee hearing at Memorial Hall were what the general public would consider "wierdos" from their appearance. Why is it that many 2A supporters feel it is our interest to come to an event like this looking like the meanest, toughest biker that they can? I am a motorcyclist as well as a 2A and concealed carry proponent, and I know that if the public thinks that concealed carry and scary bikers are one and the same, we will get less than good support from the community.

 

 

We did our best on here to all dress business casual and present a uniformed appearance but it was a public forum and people are who they are!

 

I hear you though... I kind of cringed at the woman in all camo with the peace signs on her face... lol...

 

[Ashdump]

I contacted Lori DeYoung - Vermilion County Board member (running for Bill Black's seat) about this issue. She hasn't responded yet. She is one of those who pushed the 2A Resolution here. I hope she will check it out and talk to the rest of the Board.

 

I had thought of that, but I think it may be best to first let the Winnebago thing run it's course. It will set the precedent that other counties will want to follow.

[Kenny]

I contacted Lori DeYoung - Vermilion County Board member (running for Bill Black's seat) about this issue. She hasn't responded yet. She is one of those who pushed the 2A Resolution here. I hope she will check it out and talk to the rest of the Board.

 

I had thought of that, but I think it may be best to first let the Winnebago thing run it's course. It will set the precedent that other counties will want to follow.

 

NO WAY Ashdump we need all the other counties to get their's rolling now so as soon as Winnebago county passes theirs several other counties can follow suit as soon after as possible. What will the state do if after 2 weeks of Winnebago passing it there are 30 more counties that passed theirs too. That is what we want to happen.

[flagtag]

I contacted Lori DeYoung - Vermilion County Board member (running for Bill Black's seat) about this issue. She hasn't responded yet. She is one of those who pushed the 2A Resolution here. I hope she will check it out and talk to the rest of the Board.

 

I had thought of that, but I think it may be best to first let the Winnebago thing run it's course. It will set the precedent that other counties will want to follow.

 

Yeah, I asked her to check it out so that she would know what is going on. She has so much on her plate right now, I hope she can find the time.

[Board9]

Did anybody see this LTE in RRSTAR.com today? I can't believe that people don't read everything. Have we NOT discussed this very point in detail? See the letter below.

 

RRSTAR.COM

Posted Jun 22, 2008 @ 11:25 PM

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supporters of concealed carry have not addressed any training or fitness standards for carrying a concealed weapon.

 

I am a police officer in this county and I, along with the rest of my colleagues, had to undergo a battery of testing and qualifications to carry and use lethal force on the job.

 

The County Board and the sheriff need to address this. To carry a firearm, I had to complete a physical and written test, a psychological test and a polygraph examination. Not to mention that we spend countless hours (before hitting the streets) on use of force, use of lethal force and civil liability courses.

 

There is more to carrying a weapon than driving to the local gun shop and purchasing a firearm with ammunition and throwing it in your glove compartment. I fear that this is the expectation that the general public has toward concealed and carry laws.

 

Being able to conceal and carry should be the exception, not the norm for the general public.

 

The NIU argument is a moot point. The shooter had a FOID card and legally purchased the weapons on his own — if he had the FOID card, why not a concealed carry permit?

 

I cringe to think of the even deadlier crossfire situation if several armed civilians sitting in an auditorium decided to shoot back over other innocent bystanders.

 

— David Watson, Rockford

[Kaeghl]

Okay, as to the 'battery of tests and qualifications', remember that as an LEO, you're taking the city into a legal mine field every time you report for work. So for any after action court room scene, they have to have all their I's dotted and T's crossed. That means the city has to be able to provide proof that you were trained in proper responses. That way the city can excuse themselves from any wrongfull death cases in case you make a mistake, and leave you to face the suit, yourself. It is not now, nor was it ever any concern for 'proper training with a lethal object' for the police officer's safety. What gives it away for anyone reading that is the 'civil liability' comment.

 

Would anyone here actually carry their gun in the glove compartment when they are driving? Lot of good that would do you during an active carjacking. "Sure thing, Mr crackhead carjacker. Just wait right there while I unbuckle my seat belt and reach across here to get my gun outta the glove compartment, first, okay?" Yeah right.

 

The dreaded 'crossfire scenario at NIU' raised it's head again. Try looking at it from a physical point above the whole place, like you're an angel laying against the ceiling, looking down. One bad guy, on the platform, shooting out in a fan pattern. One, two or more shooters in the auditorium, at random places, all shooting IN to the 'handle' of that same 'fan pattern', NOT across the fan at each other. I don't see a crossfire, do you?

 

And if this officer was so adamant, and this opinion so prevelent in the police departments around this county, why didn't he get official permission to do his shift at the county board meeting and speak against it as an official LEO position? Possibly because it didn't jive with the opinions and knowledge of other LEO's in this county? I've only talked with two LEO's about this, in casual manner, and they were both for it. Anyone else hear about some LEO institutional 'common sense' saying that civilians aren't qualified to carry?

[Ashdump]

Did anybody see this LTE in RRSTAR.com today? I can't believe that people don't read everything. Have we NOT discussed this very point in detail? See the letter below.

 

RRSTAR.COM

Posted Jun 22, 2008 @ 11:25 PM

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supporters of concealed carry have not addressed any training or fitness standards for carrying a concealed weapon.

 

I am a police officer in this county and I, along with the rest of my colleagues, had to undergo a battery of testing and qualifications to carry and use lethal force on the job.

 

The County Board and the sheriff need to address this. To carry a firearm, I had to complete a physical and written test, a psychological test and a polygraph examination. Not to mention that we spend countless hours (before hitting the streets) on use of force, use of lethal force and civil liability courses.

 

There is more to carrying a weapon than driving to the local gun shop and purchasing a firearm with ammunition and throwing it in your glove compartment. I fear that this is the expectation that the general public has toward concealed and carry laws.

 

Being able to conceal and carry should be the exception, not the norm for the general public.

 

The NIU argument is a moot point. The shooter had a FOID card and legally purchased the weapons on his own — if he had the FOID card, why not a concealed carry permit?

 

I cringe to think of the even deadlier crossfire situation if several armed civilians sitting in an auditorium decided to shoot back over other innocent bystanders.

 

— David Watson, Rockford

 

It's as simple as this, this police officer is an eliteist. He thinks all non LEO's are just a bunch of stupid rubes. I was not born to please the police. I was born a free man with certain inalianble rights. He can go piss-off. JMHO, we are making too much out of this training thing in the first place. We are trying to find a solution for a problem that does not exist. I have had the PA permit for quite some time now. It does not require training. I have carried quite a bit, thank goodness I have'nt had to use it, but I am not stupid. I will know if I ever need to. I have even thought out the kind of ammo I use to CC. I use JHP rather than FMJ because I want the rounds to loose all of their energy in the perp. I will not draw unless I am in immediate danger and I know that I am close enough to the perp that I won't miss. I have even purchased a Laser Grip to further ensure my round hits it's intended target. I do not take any of this lightly.