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Your CCL is linked to your vehicle in Illinois!


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#1 Big Red Mist

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:17 PM

Just an FYI. If a vehicle is registered to a CCL holder LEO's will know it by the time they get out of their vehicle.

 

My son was pulled over in my truck because a log chain was dangling through the bottom of the tailgate. The first thing the officer asked from the rear of the vehicle was, "Do you have your conceal carry?" My son answered, "No sir." Officer asked again, "Are you sure you don’t have your conceal carry?" My son again replied, "No sir." The traffic stop then proceeded normally. As my son handed the officer his driver’s license he told the officer he was too young to carry. During the traffic stop my son voiced his opinion that military personnel should be allowed to carry at any age. The officer agreed and sent him on his way.

 

That being said, if law enforcement runs a plate on a vehicle that is registered to a CCL holder it could potentially make the driver a target, CCL holder or not. When you apply for a CCL and submit your driver’s license number, it is linked in a database with vehicles registered in your name as well. The truck my son was driving will be re-titled into the corporation name within the next few months.


Edited by Big Red Mist, 03 March 2015 - 07:19 PM.


#2 RacerDave6

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:21 PM

CCL is not linked to the vehicle. It is common practice for LEO to request 'registered owner' information on a traffic stop. In some jurisdictions is't done automatically as protocol.

It doesn't make you a target.

The cops on the street, for the most part, do not have a problem with CCL. They are not out there looking to pull someone over just because they have a CCL. They have better things to do.


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#3 lawman

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:21 PM

How is this going to make the driver a target?  All LEOs are trained to treat everyone at a traffic stop as being potentially armed.  They would now simply know that the driver is potentially armed, but has a license to do so.



#4 gangrel

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:30 PM

1)  We have had CCW in Illinois for over a year now, and I have not heard of a single law enforcement interaction that has been less than friendly.

2)  Despite the dire warnings about LEOs "targeting" CCW licensees by license plate, there has been no evidence to support this.  Even if this were the case, the rampant rumors before licenses were issued that LEOs would disarm licensees and prone them out on the ground while running their license have also proven to be...ahem...overblown.

3)  I can tell you from all of the stories I have heard, including my own two interactions since I have had a license, after disclosing your FCCL and telling the officer where your defensive firearm is, it seems much more likely that the officer will thank you for telling him and let you off with a warning.  I have lived in this state for all of my 41 years, and the only time I have ever been let off with a warning on a traffic stop was about three months ago, after telling the officer about my license and following his instructions.

4)  As for running a drivers license potentially bringing up the FCCL....in other breaking news, dogs are furry, grass is green, and those white things up in the sky?  Those are called "clouds".


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#5 GlockShooter

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:31 PM

FWIW, I listen to the scanner a lot.  You are correct about your plate being linked to your DL, which is linked to your CCL.  They do know.  Every time I've heard dispatch inform the officer that the vehicle is registered to a CCL holder, the response has been either "10-4" and you never hear another word about it, or someone else was driving and it didn't matter.

 

There have been plenty of members here reporting that when being pulled over, they were never even asked about it, even though the officer probably knew.  That officer may have been over zealous, but I don't think that is the norm.


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#6 es503IL

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:42 PM

The FCCL is linked to the DL, not the Registration. If the DL is linked to the Registration (and not all are), when the Registration is run, the DL comes back with the Registration. If the DL is not linked to the Registration it does not come back. That being said, it is not that difficult to find the registered owner(s) through Soundex.

 

Also, from an Officer Safety point of view, everyone is armed until proven otherwise. Even then, there is always at least one firearm present in every single LEO encounter.


Edited by es503IL, 03 March 2015 - 07:44 PM.


#7 BShawn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:01 PM

1)  We have had CCW in Illinois for over a year now, and I have not heard of a single law enforcement interaction that has been less than friendly.

2)  Despite the dire warnings about LEOs "targeting" CCW licensees by license plate, there has been no evidence to support this.  Even if this were the case, the rampant rumors before licenses were issued that LEOs would disarm licensees and prone them out on the ground while running their license have also proven to be...ahem...overblown.

3)  I can tell you from all of the stories I have heard, including my own two interactions since I have had a license, after disclosing your FCCL and telling the officer where your defensive firearm is, it seems much more likely that the officer will thank you for telling him and let you off with a warning.  I have lived in this state for all of my 41 years, and the only time I have ever been let off with a warning on a traffic stop was about three months ago, after telling the officer about my license and following his instructions.

4)  As for running a drivers license potentially bringing up the FCCL....in other breaking news, dogs are furry, grass is green, and those white things up in the sky?  Those are called "clouds".

 

Exactly ^this^. My friend and I both speculate that I received a "warning" instead of a "real ticket" because the officer knew I had a CCL. So if anything, having a CCL may render the exact OPPOSITE outcome many around here have expected. And rather than turning your 'average stop' into a "felony stop", you may actually just get a warning. Because the officer already knows you have a CCL, which does mean you're a "good guy", other than whatever petty little thing he has you pulled over for. If you do wind up laying on the ground like an airplane, THEN the officer is a rabid anti (or you deserve it).

 

The FCCL is linked to the DL, not the Registration. If the DL is linked to the Registration (and not all are), when the Registration is run, the DL comes back with the Registration. If the DL is not linked to the Registration it does not come back. That being said, it is not that difficult to find the registered owner(s) through Soundex.

 

Also, from an Officer Safety point of view, everyone is armed until proven otherwise. Even then, there is always at least one firearm present in every single LEO encounter.

 

I was thinking more about this since the last time I registered a vehicle the person helping me literally made me enter my DL info for the registration. Not that I am 100% against it (other than the fact that I was "made" to), but I also figure it really wouldn't matter anyway because the officer will know sooner or later anyway. May very well still know before the first time he/she approaches you. It wouldn't be hard for an officer to punch in your tag, get the results, even if the registration doesn't have DL, it's not like he can't get your DL# from your NAME, and STILL know all this before he ever leaves his car to approach you for the first time.

 

So my thoughts or $0.02 are, if you think the officer doesn't know just because you don't have your DL on your registration - you have another thing comin'. Or if by the off-chance they really don't figure that out until AFTER you hand them your license and they get back to their car to run it, now it's a surprise to them (which as outlined in other places around here, some people [officers] may not really like that - even if they're "pro 2A").

 

So my thoughts are, you SHOULD want and have your DL# attached to your registration. At least now I'm actually glad mine is. So now I do know for a fact any officer running my plate or pulling me over knows I have a CCL. As such it's my current "standard operative procedure" to not preemptively notify (because he/she already knows). If they ask, of course I have to then discuss, per IL law. If they don't bring it up though, it's an indication to me that they do not even care. Now, if I'm driving a vehicle not registered to me, then I will preemptively notify just so it doesn't come as a surprise when they run my DL/ID when they return to their car after having already had brief interaction with me. Respect given, is respect earned.


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#8 BShawn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:07 PM

Yes and from a safety standpoint an officer should already be assuming I may be armed anyway. At least now he'll now I am (or may be) LEGALLY.


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~ Licensed to carry since 2008
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~ IL CCL 75 days from application to in hand!
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~ I'm not the "bad guy" here, I just want to be able to defend myself and my family. Anywhere I should be permitted to carry a pencil (1st amendment), I should also be able to carry a firearm (2nd amendment) !!!!!!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Why do I carry a handgun? Well, look at it this way -- I keep a fire extinguisher in my house. I don't expect to have a fire; indeed, it's highly unlikely. But in the unlikely event of fire, not having the means to stop the fire could result in serious property loss or personal injury to myself and my family. Neither do I expect to be a victim of violent crime; indeed, it's highly unlikely. But in the unlikely event of a violent crime, not having the means to stop the criminal could lead to serious property loss or personal injury to myself and my family. It is simply a matter of common-sense prudence."
GarandFan, 2007
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Drawing any line only restricts law abiding people from crossing such a line. The "line" doesn't exist for criminals so we have to support the second amendment.
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#9 Davidl1978

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:14 PM

FWIW, I listen to the scanner a lot.  You are correct about your plate being linked to your DL, which is linked to your CCL.  They do know.  Every time I've heard dispatch inform the officer that the vehicle is registered to a CCL holder, the response has been either "10-4" and you never hear another word about it, or someone else was driving and it didn't matter.
 
There have been plenty of members here reporting that when being pulled over, they were never even asked about it, even though the officer probably knew.  That officer may have been over zealous, but I don't think that is the norm.


I'll add my $0.02, my CCL instructors who are LEOs told my class that our CCLs come up on their LEADS program. When they run your plates your CCL info is listed. Like others said, they should always presume that the driver and passengers are carrying. Again, just my $0.02 based on my training.

#10 freedoms@1791

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:36 PM

1)  We have had CCW in Illinois for over a year now, and I have not heard of a single law enforcement interaction that has been less than friendly.
2)  Despite the dire warnings about LEOs "targeting" CCW licensees by license plate, there has been no evidence to support this.  Even if this were the case, the rampant rumors before licenses were issued that LEOs would disarm licensees and prone them out on the ground while running their license have also proven to be...ahem...overblown.
3)  I can tell you from all of the stories I have heard, including my own two interactions since I have had a license, after disclosing your FCCL and telling the officer where your defensive firearm is, it seems much more likely that the officer will thank you for telling him and let you off with a warning.  I have lived in this state for all of my 41 years, and the only time I have ever been let off with a warning on a traffic stop was about three months ago, after telling the officer about my license and following his instructions.
4)  As for running a drivers license potentially bringing up the FCCL....in other breaking news, dogs are furry, grass is green, and those white things up in the sky?  Those are called "clouds".

:thumbsup:

Edited by freedoms@1791.com, 03 March 2015 - 09:38 PM.

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#11 domin8

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:46 PM

This is much simpler than its been explained already. Illinois reports your FCCL to NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). NLETS is where LEEDS gets its info. LEEDS is where everything else is combined that was mentioned earlier. Btw, I disagree about active military being able to carry at any age. And, I'm not alone in that thinking. Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.

Edited by domin8, 03 March 2015 - 09:49 PM.

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#12 Crypto

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:59 PM

This is much simpler than its been explained already. Illinois reports your FCCL to NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). NLETS is where LEEDS gets its info. LEEDS is where everything else is combined that was mentioned earlier.

Btw, I disagree about active military being able to carry at any age. And, I'm not alone in that thinking. Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.

When did they start the no pistol training thing? I had to qualify with a pistol in basic training
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#13 es503IL

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:49 PM

This is much simpler than its been explained already. Illinois reports your FCCL to NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). NLETS is where LEEDS gets its info. LEEDS is where everything else is combined that was mentioned earlier. Btw, I disagree about active military being able to carry at any age. And, I'm not alone in that thinking. Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.

 
1) Its LEADS (Law Enforcement Agencies Data System) not "LEEDS". Information is placed into LEADS, which is maintained by the State of Illinois. Some information (such as the Computerized Hot File - CHF, Warrants, Gang Hits, OOPs, Caution Files, etc) is entered into NCIC when it is placed into LEADS. NLETS is a routing service which provides access to out of State information. Simply put, NLETS accesses LEADS. Illinois does not enter information into NLETS.
2) No pistol until your an NCO? When did this start?  There is so much wrong with that statement its not even funny... What people are armed with is based upon the TO&E, not rank. As for "no weapons training if your a non-combatant", everyone who goes through Boot camp/Basic Training learns how to shoot a rifle (although I think the Navy has you qual on pistol/shotgun). Where are you getting your information from?


Edited by es503IL, 03 March 2015 - 10:56 PM.


#14 Houndawg

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 11:32 PM


Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.


There is absolutely no truth to that.

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#15 domin8

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:48 AM


Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.


There is absolutely no truth to that.

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Prove it. There's lots of truth to it. As said above your post, how many of what type of weapon issued to a unit is maintained by MTO&E. Now, break it down. Who gets the pistols, and when? At what age does that usually happen? Yes, there are exceptions, such as MPs, Corpsmen/Medics, etc, which is why my statement was very generic. Other units, such as Infantry, which is what I was in the Marines, what I said was exactly the case. If you're authorized to carry a pistol you go through additional training for it. In bootcamp you are only trained on the rifle. Furthermore, not everybody goes to bootcamp. Enlisted do, but it's different for officers, depending on the branch. In the Navy there is OCS (Officer Candidate School) and ODS (Officer Development School). While the majority of those seeking to be officers go to OCS, and obtain firearms training, the doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, Chaplains, etc go to ODS for 5 weeks. They are direct commission and already have their rank prior to ODS. They do not receive any firearms training at ODS. Now, find me an officer below the age of 21. The typical breakdown of enlisted personnel issued pistols because of MTO&E will reveal that when rifles are issued pistols are secondary and primarily issued to NCOs and above.

Edited by domin8, 04 March 2015 - 06:53 AM.

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#16 Crypto

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:19 AM

FWIW I looked it up and Army basic training still requires the recruit to train with the M-9.
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#17 brianj - now in Kansas

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:35 AM

At the risk of taking this further off-topic, in my experience the duty weapon issued was based on PMOS, not necessarily MTOE, and definitely not rank.  I enlisted as a 19K (M1 Abrams Armor Crewman), and my issued weapon was a M1911, both in basic training and at my primary duty station.  Each tank was issued a M16A2, but we never qualified with it.  When we did our bi-annual qualification, it was with the 1911.

 

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:38 AM

Was a witness for a traffic crash they ran my license. I hear the dispatcher say clear and valid Richard also has a CCL, officers response none, handed my license back to me and said thank you.


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#19 Xwing

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 08:30 AM

1)  We have had CCW in Illinois for over a year now, and I have not heard of a single law enforcement interaction that has been less than friendly.
2)  Despite the dire warnings about LEOs "targeting" CCW licensees by license plate, there has been no evidence to support this.  Even if this were the case, the rampant rumors before licenses were issued that LEOs would disarm licensees and prone them out on the ground while running their license have also proven to be...ahem...overblown.
3)  I can tell you from all of the stories I have heard, including my own two interactions since I have had a license, after disclosing your FCCL and telling the officer where your defensive firearm is, it seems much more likely that the officer will thank you for telling him and let you off with a warning.  I have lived in this state for all of my 41 years, and the only time I have ever been let off with a warning on a traffic stop was about three months ago, after telling the officer about my license and following his instructions.
4)  As for running a drivers license potentially bringing up the FCCL....in other breaking news, dogs are furry, grass is green, and those white things up in the sky?  Those are called "clouds".


Yep! Although IMO officers still aren't "likely" to let you off with a warning just because you have a FCCL, it always is in your best interest to have a good interaction with the officer pulling you over. If it's a good interaction based on mutual respect, you have a better chance of them letting a small violation slide.

And of course officers have the ability to query your FCCL status. If they query your name in LEADS (and get that based on your license plate), it shows up. This is common on many jurisdictions. But I have absolutely no problem with an officer knowing I am a licensee; in fact I prefer it. This is a good system (unlike mandatory "duty to inform" states where if it's the 2nd sentence out of your mouth instead of the 1st, you can get into hot water.)

Edited by Xwing, 04 March 2015 - 08:31 AM.

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#20 domin8

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:21 AM

FWIW I looked it up and Army basic training still requires the recruit to train with the M-9.

Marine Corps bootcamp = rifle training only. SOI (School of Infantry), no handgun training, but claymore mines, MOUT, and smoke grenades always put a smile on my face.

Navy ODS = 0 firearms training

Navy bootcamp = rifle only, unless in a special 900 unit. 900 units include SEALs and musician band.

Edited by domin8, 04 March 2015 - 09:23 AM.

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#21 TyGuy

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:22 AM

AF BMT had only rifles when I was in, but that was....2002?  Crap I'm old.


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#22 domin8

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:25 AM

I was told the Air Force has now gone to video games.

Edited by domin8, 04 March 2015 - 09:28 AM.

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#23 domin8

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:32 AM

Getting back on topic, Illinois DOES report FCCL info to NLETS. That's one of the "substantially similar" requirements.
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#24 chibooey

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:35 AM

This is much simpler than its been explained already. Illinois reports your FCCL to NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). NLETS is where LEEDS gets its info. LEEDS is where everything else is combined that was mentioned earlier. Btw, I disagree about active military being able to carry at any age. And, I'm not alone in that thinking. Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.

 

I have had many Navy and Marine Corps non-NCO's carrying side arms, granted they were all military police or on Gate Guard duty.  Grandson was issued an M9 as an E3, C17 aircrew.


Edited by chibooey, 04 March 2015 - 09:40 AM.


#25 junglebob

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:12 AM

FWIW, I listen to the scanner a lot.  You are correct about your plate being linked to your DL, which is linked to your CCL.  They do know.  Every time I've heard dispatch inform the officer that the vehicle is registered to a CCL holder, the response has been either "10-4" and you never hear another word about it, or someone else was driving and it didn't matter.
 
There have been plenty of members here reporting that when being pulled over, they were never even asked about it, even though the officer probably knew.  That officer may have been over zealous, but I don't think that is the norm.


I was in an accident last fall when a driver pulled out from a side street in front of me. She was clearly at fault. The Carbondale officer that was called to the accident scene asked for my license and insurance and asked for my FCCL. He didn't however ask if I was carrying, which I was. No cautioning me to keep my hands away from my gun or anything. He did look at my FCCL front and back. Asked me what the number on the back was, in ink on a label. I said that's my attorney's number. No further questions not related to the accident. He didn't seem to treat me differently than the other driver. Though my vehicle and the other driver's were totaled nobody was hurt.

I guess that accident was one of those times the antis warn us about that a concealed carrier is supposed to go into "road rage mode"!

Edited by junglebob, 04 March 2015 - 10:26 AM.

Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrong doers should dominate just men.  -  Augustine

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)


#26 domin8

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:21 AM


This is much simpler than its been explained already. Illinois reports your FCCL to NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). NLETS is where LEEDS gets its info. LEEDS is where everything else is combined that was mentioned earlier. Btw, I disagree about active military being able to carry at any age. And, I'm not alone in that thinking. Uncle Sam doesn't permit personnel to have a service pistol until they achieve a NCO or commissioned officer rank. Commissioned officers have a 4 year education post high school which puts their age at our above 21, and enlisted persons aren't normally promoted to an NCO rank until around a coincidental age of 21. Personnel are taught how to use rifles in bootcamp, not pistols, unless they are noncombatants according to throw Geneva Convention. In that case they get zilch for firearms training.


 
I have had many Navy and Marine Corps non-NCO's carrying side arms, granted they were all military police or on Gate Guard duty.  Grandson was issued an M9 as an E3, C17 aircrew.

We've beat this horse already.

1) That statement was generic,
2) PMOS, and
3) MTO&E.

Lastly, I'll add that not a single person paint about this subject has differentiated between defense versus offense.

Edited by domin8, 04 March 2015 - 10:24 AM.

I'm either banned, going to be banned, or just returned from being banned. The truth hurts.

#27 Houndawg

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:59 AM

Domin8, You are doing a good job of contradicting yourself. Your fist statement was that only officers and NCOs are allowed to have pistols. Then when people tell you you are wrong you argue that you are right because you said something else. The truth of the matter is that you have no idea what you are talking about. My 14 years experience in both the Marine Corps and Army says it doesn't matter what your age or rank is. It is your job that dictates what weapon you carry. Lots in the sandbox carried both pistol and rifle, regardless of rank or age. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

#28 ming

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:09 AM

 

FWIW I looked it up and Army basic training still requires the recruit to train with the M-9.

Marine Corps bootcamp = rifle training only. SOI (School of Infantry), no handgun training, but claymore mines, MOUT, and smoke grenades always put a smile on my face.

Navy ODS = 0 firearms training

Navy bootcamp = rifle only, unless in a special 900 unit. 900 units include SEALs and musician band.

 

Hey D8,

 

Didn't you even do familiarization fire with the M1911 (or the M9) either in boot camp or ITR?  I know I did it but it was so long ago I can't recall if I did it at PI or Lejeune.


Edited by ming, 04 March 2015 - 11:10 AM.

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#29 vito

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:13 AM

Back on topic, sort of. I never doubted that an Illinois LEO will know I have a CCW license. I was much more concerned about other state LEO's knowing I have such a license, and possibly using that as "probable cause" to search my car without my consent. Particularly in NJ and NY, where even having an unloaded, locked in a container handgun would result in felony charges, my concern has caused me to travel to these states totally unarmed for the entire trip, even though I could have carried legally in IL, IN, OH, and PA en-route to NY.


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#30 lockman

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:08 PM

I have not been in the LEO business for over 25 years, but it was routine to ask for a 10-28/29. That ran the plate and then ran the registered owner for warrants.


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