Jump to content


Photo

Wisconsin's brand new 137 year old carry law


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
4 replies to this topic

#1 raiven

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,123 posts
  • Joined: 22-March 07

Posted 13 March 2009 - 08:46 AM

Perhaps you have been following the developments in Illinois lately. Seems like the land of Obama may try to pass a concealed carry law soon. Good for them. I recently got an email from a friend who lamented to me that it leaves Wisconsin as the only state without a carry law. Not true Kimosabi. Wisconsin passed itsí carry law back in 1872 beating Illinois by about 137 years, give or take a year or two. Unfortunately, most people who were alive when the carry law was passed are no longer here to explain it to us today but since Iím an older guy, Iíll try. Think back to the founding of the country for a minute. Everyone carried a weapon of some sort, it was usually a knife. It was considered socially unacceptable to hide your weapon. The logic was if you knew I was armed and I knew you were armed, neither one of us had either an advantage or disadvantage over the other person. To hide a weapon was considered sneaky and your motives were suspect. What were you up to that you did not want to let me know that you were armed? Frankly, that has not changed much if you think about how the bad guyís carry their weapons. Less than 100 years after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, that still was the prevailing social attitude towards weapons. The Wisconsin legislature simply codified the social disdain for carrying a hidden weapon into law in 1872 saying: 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor (the penalty has been changed from the original law). Here, I must remind you that the purpose of a law is to restrict or prohibit what you are otherwise free to do. The law only restricts the carry of a concealed weapon. It was never meant to restrict the carry of your weapon openly which was the socially acceptable manner to carry a gun in 1872. The issue today is the inconsistent understanding of what this law does and what this law does not do, by local law enforcement. The Attorney General as the states top cop and law enforcer could provide much needed guidance to law enforcement statewide but he refuses to do so. Some believe the state Constitution and this law are in conflict with each other. I do not see how that could be. Wisconsin has an operating law that proscribes how you must carry your gun (openly), and the Constitution that protects your right to do so. Seems like a perfect harmony to me. Letís discuss disorderly conduct next. This is what it is. State v Douglas D 2001 WI 47, para 15.243 WIS 2d, 204,626N.W, 2d 725. Para. 15

"The State must prove two elements to convict a defendant under this statute (947.01)" First, it must prove that the defendant engaged in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unnecessarily loud, or similar disorderly conduct. Second, it must prove that the defendant's conduct occurred under circumstances where such conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance". Simply exercising your authority under state statute and wearing a visible gun does not rise to meet either of the two elements needed to prosecute a person for merely wearing a gun, for disorderly conduct. Due to confusion within the ranks of law enforcement, this law is often misapplied to create what really is an unlawful ban on your ability to lawfully carry a gun in public. The Attorney General as the states top cop and enforcer of all laws, could eliminate this confusion by local law enforcers by providing much needed guidance, but he wonít do his job. Until he does, lawful citizens will be arrested for breaking no laws and I predict the civil lawsuits that follow are not going to go well for the local governments and the arresting officers personally. Those officers who over react by responding to the sight of a lawfully armed citizen with their guns drawn and pointed at them risk being shot themselves or shooting an innocent person. This would be very tragic and needless bloodshed. The Attorney General as the states top cop and law enforcer could prevent such a tragedy if he wanted to. But so far he is unwilling to be bothered with enforcing the states 137 year old carry law. If JB gets enough emails from you, he has been known to actually read one or two. His email address is vanhollenjb@doj.state.wi.us, be firm and polite.

http://www.examiner....r-old-carry-law

#2 Smittyp83

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 08

Posted 13 March 2009 - 11:56 AM

Very interesting. Kind of like Vermont's law - "Vermont has no statutes concerning concealed carry, nor is there a specific statute that allows it. In the absence of a statute that prohibits it, then it is taken that there is no law against it."

If the statute in WI says that only carrying CONCEALED weapons are prohibited, then open cary should be legal, right?
[Posted Image

#3 ewellnitz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 08

Posted 13 March 2009 - 06:49 PM

Very interesting. Kind of like Vermont's law - "Vermont has no statutes concerning concealed carry, nor is there a specific statute that allows it. In the absence of a statute that prohibits it, then it is taken that there is no law against it."

If the statute in WI says that only carrying CONCEALED weapons are prohibited, then open cary should be legal, right?

My uncle did for years without issue.
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

#4 SmershAgent

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,376 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 04

Posted 13 March 2009 - 06:57 PM

Very interesting. Kind of like Vermont's law - "Vermont has no statutes concerning concealed carry, nor is there a specific statute that allows it. In the absence of a statute that prohibits it, then it is taken that there is no law against it."

If the statute in WI says that only carrying CONCEALED weapons are prohibited, then open cary should be legal, right?


Open carrying is legal in WI, although you do so in urbanized, densely populated areas at your peril. It's likely that you'd be charged with disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance once someone saw and complained to the authorities.
My right to own a gun protects your right to tell me I can't

#5 ewellnitz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 08

Posted 13 March 2009 - 08:22 PM

Very interesting. Kind of like Vermont's law - "Vermont has no statutes concerning concealed carry, nor is there a specific statute that allows it. In the absence of a statute that prohibits it, then it is taken that there is no law against it."

If the statute in WI says that only carrying CONCEALED weapons are prohibited, then open cary should be legal, right?


Open carrying is legal in WI, although you do so in urbanized, densely populated areas at your peril. It's likely that you'd be charged with disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance once someone saw and complained to the authorities.

Some municipalities have a crackpot 'instlling fear in the public' ordinance for such occasions when they get a 'man with a gun' call.
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764