25 replies to this topic

[Euler]

Pistols & Bear Spray Stop Two Bear Attacks

Two pairs of archery hunters were attacked by a grizzly bear or bears in Montana, in the Gravelly Mountains. The attacks occurred within 11 hours and one mile from each other. Because of the proximity, it is suspected the same bear was involved in both attacks.
...
The bear struck one of the men as the other was reaching for his bear spray. The man fell to his hands and knees, then the bear grabbed onto his backpack.

The other man deployed bear spray at the bear. When the spray reached the bear's face, the bear let go of the first hunter and attacked the other hunter. The man continued spraying the bear's face, and the bear eventually let go and left.
...
The second attack occurred eleven hours later, about a mile away. ... We know [the victims'] names, Chris Gregersen and Donivan Campbell. The attack was very similar to the previous attack. Donivan Campbell was grabbed before he could deploy a defensive weapon.
...
Chris Gregersen wrote they used 9 mm pistols to defend themselves. He was of the opinion bear spray would not have worked in their situation. Officials conducted a search, but did not find the bear.
...
Eight days later, on the 24th of September, 2019, another hunter was attacked in the same area. He survived, but details are sparse at this time.
...
The media reports are emphasizing the effectiveness of bear spray, and mostly ignoring the effectiveness of 9 mm pistols. You have to search to determine pistols were used and effective.
...

357 Magnum mare's leg?
454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk?

For a trail gun, you're not hunting bears. You just want to survive if one decides to hunt you.

[ChicagoRonin70]

Glock30SF chambered in .460 Rowland, loaded with Underwood Ammo 200 grain Xtreme Penetrators, with a backup of a G29SF, with a KKM Precision 10mm compensated barrel, loaded with Underwood Ammo 150 grain Xtreme Hunters.

 

I'd love to get a TNW Aero Rifle in .460 Rowland with 10mm and .45 ACP conversion kits as a trail rifle platform. I'm a big proponent of pistols and rifles using the same caliber ammunition, for maximum flexibility.

Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 29 September 2019 - 10:30 PM.

[RandyP]

And as is often suggested, be sure to file down the front sights on any handgun you plan to use against a grizzly/brown bear. At least that way when the monster bear takes it and uses it as a rectal thermometer on you, it won't chafe as much.

[ChicagoRonin70]

And as is often suggested, be sure to file down the front sights on any handgun you plan to use against a grizzly/brown bear. At least that way when the monster bear takes it and uses it as a rectal thermometer on you, it won't chafe as much.

 

I consulted for a large game tracking and tagging project, with regard to the firearms that they carry. They use Glock 20s, loaded with either Underwood Ammo 10mm 220 grain hardcast or the 150 grain Xtreme Hunter loads. They have had to put down several attacking grizzlies over the past four years, some over 1,000 pounds, using those firearms and loadings. None of the people who had engaged in those incidents were injured in any way, yet the grizzlies were all killed.

 

What you wrote is a glibly foolish statement not grounded in reality in any way.

 

Defense against bear, including grizzlies, using a handgun, is 97 percent effective.

[mikew]

Then there's the pocket pistol option:

 

[RandyP]

"What you wrote is a glibly foolish statement not grounded in reality in any way."

 

What's that you say? You have somehow cleverly deduced that my comment was not based on scientific analysis as postulated in my master's dissertation on the noble ursus arctos horribilis? 

 

I stand dutifully chastised. Unless of course you'd rather simply go on Amazon and purchase a sense of humor?

[FST_Kent]

While archery deer hunting in IL on my own property?

 

Nothing, because it's against DNR regulations, except for LEO's since this summer.

[Euler]

While archery deer hunting in IL on my own property?
 
Nothing, because it's against DNR regulations, except for LEO's since this summer.

Unfortunately, bears don't obey the DNR laws.

More seriously, the question isn't about bow hunting. Bow hunting was just the context in which four guys got attacked. They certainly weren't bow hunting bears.

[Windermere]

Glock G40 in MOS

[HeavyDuty]

S&W 69.

[skrapyard]

Glock20 with a handloaded round using a 140gr Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator bullet moving about 1600fps. In a non scientific test against a wet McMaster Carr catalog the bullet cruised through the entire thing with ease and disappeared into the berm. I would assume thats better than nothing until I can upgrade to a larger caliber. 

 

I have seen quite a few of the stories where people have successfully defended themselves from bears with 9mm and 357mag but personally I want something a little larger with more power. If it werent so bulky, I would carry a 12ga. But that isnt always as easy to lug around compared to a pistol in a holster. 

[carry]

And as is often suggested, be sure to file down the front sights on any handgun you plan to use against a grizzly/brown bear. At least that way when the monster bear takes it and uses it as a rectal thermometer on you, it won't chafe as much.

What is the difference between and oral thermometer and a rectal thermometer?








The taste.



Thank my daughters pediatrician for that one.

Edited by carry, 30 September 2019 - 07:58 AM.

[RS1]

Glock G40 in MOS

Same. I know there are more perfect options but this makes the most sense to me. Along with bear spray and a friend with a Marlin 30-30 lever.

[Gator4838]

12g 1 oz slug,full size 10mm,45-70,all would get the job done shooting hard cast.the most difficult part would be making the shot on a charging bear.you can't appreciate how fast they can be on top of you until you see some video.bring the 9mm in case he's ticklish.

[luckydawg13]

Bear defenses 12ga slug

[jagt48]

It depends on the trail and how I'm feeling. Generally though it is a G20 or Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt. Always Undereood hardcasts. I use a Hill People Gear chest rig. It works great while walking, jogging, canoeing, and biking.

[lockman]

S&W model 57 - have not been in bear terratory for many years but the model 57 is what I carried.

[Bubbacs]

And as is often suggested, be sure to file down the front sights on any handgun you plan to use against a grizzly/brown bear. At least that way when the monster bear takes it and uses it as a rectal thermometer on you, it won't chafe as much.

What is the difference between and oral thermometer and a rectal thermometer?










The taste.



Thank my daughters pediatrician for that one.

And the fact he would know the answer to that would suggest he has done several research trials to be certain of his finding!
Get a new pediatrician......

[wolfcreek]

I have found that the springfield armory "Saint" pistol 5.56 with 30 round magazine plus to extra 30 round magazines seem to fill the bill.A tracer every 5th round helps keep you on target.Plus the bears don't like them.

[Max Liberty]

My reality:  If the trail is not in bear or alligator territory, a J frame or Ruger SP101 with .38 Special +P JHP will do whatever needs doing.  Carry a reload or two.  If one is hiking any distance even for an afternoon, there will also be (right?) a quart or two of water, a good light, a phone, snacks, and a small first aid kit -- weight is a factor.

 

Having said that, if I ever get out west to grizzly territory, my 6 inch .44 magnum is going with me, with very warm hardcast loads.  A decent chest rig might make that doable.

 

- Max

[Birdhunter1]

Considering most of my time outdoors is right here in IL either hunting or horseback riding I routinely carry my Springfield XD 9 mm, sometimes my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt.  Either way I do not intend on running across a bear I'm more worried about two legged attackers hopped up on meth.  Considering my outdoor partners are usually my 8 year old daughter or 10 year old son, both the least likely for one to think of as being armed, you would be very surprised what is in their saddle bags!

[DD123]

If I had to go out in the wilderness, I'm taking one gun....

 

A shotgun.  

 

It would be loaded like this, in order of how the rounds are shot - 7.5 birdshot - Slug - Slug - Slug - Slug - etc.

 

The reason why I'd load birdshot first?  If you shoot a bear in the face with birdshot, one of two things will happen, it'll lose the incentive to keep coming after you, and if not, it's easier to shoot a bear that can't see you well and is in pain than it is a hard charging bear.  

 

I think a lot of us lose sight of the fact that we have absolutely no idea how we'll react to a ton of grizzly bearing down on us.  At least with the first round being birdshot, you can have a chance at not being as accurate, but still have the potential to convince the bear to disengage, and if not, that bear just took a load of 7.5 shot to the face and upper torso so it buys you a little more time to rack in a slug and take aim.  

 

For people who think they're going to take a bear down, who is hard charging you, and have never had a large animal charging you before, with a pistol, I wish you luck.  Shooting under pressure like that is something that very few shooters ever experience.  This is one of the reason why I recommend that everyone shoots USPSA or 3 gun to see how their skills hold up under pressure.  There's a guy from the area who posts in a FB group and acts like he's an expert shooter.  I've shot with this guy before, and he's beyond awful.  He would miss so many USPSA targets that he'd effectively get zero points on every stage.  I'm sure most have seen how large USPSA cardboard targets are.  This guy would hit it once, and then miss with the second shot, and completely miss targets with both shots.  The worst part is he was shooting with an optic LOL.  His flinch was so bad that it seemed like he had a seizure every time he pulled the trigger.  The reason I'm telling this story, is because it's something I see regularly from people who overestimate their handgun abilities.  Handguns are the most difficult firearms to shoot accurately under pressure.  This is why the shotgun is the best choice.  It's much easier to accurately hit a target regardless of how fast your heart is racing since the gun is mounted to your body.  

 

ETA:  I'm not poking fun at people with that last paragraph, well maybe just that guy lol, but I thought I was awesome at shooting a pistol, until I shot in my first 3 gun match.  I quickly learned that I had grossly overestimated my abilities to perform under pressure.  

Edited by DD123, 09 October 2019 - 08:55 AM.

[RS1]

I think for some it's not that they think a handgun is the best tactical option. It is just the most practical. It's not a matter of overconfidence, though I agree most tend to overestimate their abilities.

I know for me it's a lot easier to carry a 10mm G40 in a constantly accessible position than a long gun. If I KNOW I'm going to get attacked by bear I'm bringing a long gun and 4 expert bear hunters. The rest of time I'll take reasonable precautions.


FWIW, last time I was in bear country, the greatest threat wenran into was a some dumbass kid shooting an AR-15 in .22lr over our boat. Solution? Guide letting out the loudest, longest string of expletives I've heard in a long time and aiming the boat straight where the kid was on shore. You've never seen a gang of tacticool teenagers mount their ATVs and peel out so fast. How were we so sure it was an AR in .22lr? He left it behind in the panic. It was still warm when we threw it in the boat.

[ScottFM]

Pistols & Bear Spray Stop Two Bear Attacks

Two pairs of archery hunters were attacked by a grizzly bear or bears in Montana, in the Gravelly Mountains. The attacks occurred within 11 hours and one mile from each other. Because of the proximity, it is suspected the same bear was involved in both attacks.
...
The bear struck one of the men as the other was reaching for his bear spray. The man fell to his hands and knees, then the bear grabbed onto his backpack.

The other man deployed bear spray at the bear. When the spray reached the bear's face, the bear let go of the first hunter and attacked the other hunter. The man continued spraying the bear's face, and the bear eventually let go and left.
...
The second attack occurred eleven hours later, about a mile away. ... We know [the victims'] names, Chris Gregersen and Donivan Campbell. The attack was very similar to the previous attack. Donivan Campbell was grabbed before he could deploy a defensive weapon.
...
Chris Gregersen wrote they used 9 mm pistols to defend themselves. He was of the opinion bear spray would not have worked in their situation. Officials conducted a search, but did not find the bear.
...
Eight days later, on the 24th of September, 2019, another hunter was attacked in the same area. He survived, but details are sparse at this time.
...
The media reports are emphasizing the effectiveness of bear spray, and mostly ignoring the effectiveness of 9 mm pistols. You have to search to determine pistols were used and effective.
...

357 Magnum mare's leg?
454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk?

For a trail gun, you're not hunting bears. You just want to survive if one decides to hunt you.

 

The lesson here is to stay indoors! 

[sctman800]

   When we visit my BIL in upper MN is about the only time I would be near black bears and will be out early and late walking the dogs.  I agree a shotgun is more effective for aim and power but not practical to carry.  The Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull is next in power but it is also big and heavy so I usually carry Ruger Blackhawk in 41 Mag hardcast.   Jim.

[cybermgk]

When I'm in BIG bear country, It's my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt, literally loaded for Bear with +P modern pressure loads and hardcast bullets on my side AND my Marlin 1895 GBL in 45-70 loaded with bear stoppers.   

 

If it's just Black Bear country, then the Blackhawk loaded medium (not black powder pressures, but not top pressures) but still with hard cast projrctiles.

 

THough I have been thinking of getting something in 44 Mag.

Edited by cybermgk, 07 November 2019 - 08:12 AM.