Jump to content


Photo

CCL Holder Accidentally Shoots Self - Morton Grove


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#1 kwc

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 13

Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:39 PM

See report here:

https://patch.com/il...ts-self-blotter

ACCIDENTAL SHOOTING

A concealed carry permit holder reported on Sept. 25 that he had accidentally fired his gun and shot himself in the hand while inside his vehicle in a parking lot in the 6700 block of Dempster Street. Police confirmed he was in legal possession of the gun.


I wouldnt be surprised if he was disarming in the car before entering a posted (CPZ) business.
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)

#2 Gamma

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 13

Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:23 PM

I wouldnt be surprised if he was disarming in the car before entering a posted (CPZ) business.

Agreed. Forcing people to handle loaded guns in public is a very dangerous policy choice. Anti's know this and frankly like the accidents.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#3 ScottFM

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 604 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 17

Posted 08 October 2018 - 10:29 PM

I dunno, if you cannot manage to handle a loaded gun in a way to not shoot yourself, maybe you get some more training. 

He may have been disarming, but what was his finger doing on the trigger? That is one possible reason the gun was fired. Another could be that he was removing the weapon in a way that had something else able to activate the trigger. I make sure that since disarming to go into certain places is required that I have a safe way to do so. For example I remove the gun while it is in the holster. That way the trigger is never exposed and the risk to an accidental discharge is basically zero! 


--

Beer, it's the reason I get out of bed every afternoon!

 

 


#4 spec5

    Nuclear Member

  • Members
  • 4,671 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 09

Posted 08 October 2018 - 10:40 PM

I wouldnt be surprised if he was disarming in the car before entering a posted (CPZ) business.

Agreed. Forcing people to handle loaded guns in public is a very dangerous policy choice. Anti's know this and frankly like the accidents.

This.
NRA Member Life Member
ISRA Member
Illinois Carry
Pershing Nuclear Missile 56th Field Artillery Brigade Veteran
1/41 Field Artillary Germany

#5 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,412 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:14 PM

I dunno, if you cannot manage to handle a loaded gun in a way to not shoot yourself, maybe you get some more training. 

He may have been disarming, but what was his finger doing on the trigger? That is one possible reason the gun was fired. Another could be that he was removing the weapon in a way that had something else able to activate the trigger. I make sure that since disarming to go into certain places is required that I have a safe way to do so. For example I remove the gun while it is in the holster. That way the trigger is never exposed and the risk to an accidental discharge is basically zero! 

 

Perhaps the holster that he was removing the firearm from to disarm before going into the Criminal Murder Facilitation Zone was not one that he could remove easily, and so had to take the firearm out of it and expose the trigger. If it is a non-modified Glock or other firearm (including a revolver) with no external safety, something such as his shirt or a protrusion in the seat area could have caught the trigger and caused the firearm to go off.

 

The problem here is not that he took the firearm out and the trigger was accidentally pulled, it was that he was FORCED by a stupid law to engage in behavior that makes it vastly more likely (i.e., infinitely more likely than if he could have left his firearm on and concealed) that the trigger could be exposed and accidentally pulled.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#6 DomG

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,081 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 14

Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:17 PM

My loaded gun and holster come off my body as one unit to avoid a negligent discharge. Unholstering in a car, regardless of the reason, is dangerous.

"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges." - Tacitus"
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." -Tacitus

NRA Life Member
ISRA

GOA
USCCA
IL CCL
AZ CWP
VFW Life Member
USAF Retired (So I guess that makes me a Life Member)


#7 ScottFM

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 604 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 17

Posted 09 October 2018 - 12:25 AM

My loaded gun and holster come off my body as one unit to avoid a negligent discharge. Unholstering in a car, regardless of the reason, is dangerous.

That is my point. 

 

If you set up is one that is difficult, then change your set up to a safer one or remove the firearm in a safe manner. 

 

And....

 

Practice disarming!!! 


Edited by ScottFM, 09 October 2018 - 12:28 AM.

--

Beer, it's the reason I get out of bed every afternoon!

 

 


#8 Hipshot Percussion

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,007 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 09 October 2018 - 05:13 AM

I would think it happened while he was re-holstering.  I use to carry in waistband with a leather holster (TCP 380) and it was such a pain to  re-holster.  The muzzle would go in, but the leather would collapse at the trigger guard.  Taking the holster off was not an option (fat guy and the clip had a rounded bottom edge making it very dfficult to get off).  I stopped using that holster because of it.

 

Now?  I put put the pistol in a lock box and when i come to the car i stand in the open door and reholster.  If someone sees it?  To bad.  I am in an around the vehicle.  For me, its the only safe way to to do it.


“I have fought the good fight to the end; I have run the race to the finish: I have kept the faith."  Timothy Chapter 4 verse 7

 

"Legitimate self-defense has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal misuse of guns."   Gerald Vernon, veteran firearms instructor

 

New Gunner Journal

 


#9 cybermgk

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,916 posts
  • Joined: 10-October 17

Posted 09 October 2018 - 08:17 AM

More likely he did it while re-arming after leaving a GFZ.


ISRA Member

NRA Member

U.S.A.F Veteran

Single Father of 2


#10 soylentgreen

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,327 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 15

Posted 09 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

It could happen to anyone. Please be careful. I'm sure he was holstering or unholstering when it happened as others have suggested.

I completely agree with the sentiments here. Unnecessary disarming to enter a GFZ is an accident waiting to happen.



#11 Bitter Clinger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 09 October 2018 - 08:52 AM

I flip the saftey on my Shield before unholstering and then flip it off after reholstering.

My only concern with doing this is to make sure I don't forget to flip it off after reholstering.  I once caught myself forgetting which could have been an issue if I needed to use the gun.



#12 MSD

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Joined: 24-July 12

Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:01 AM

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.



#13 IH8IL

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 13

Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:33 AM

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.


I think this is a better idea since you might one day forget. I take my gun and holster off as one. Holsters are cheap and you should find one that works for your situation. I’m also a kind of fat guy and can do it while sitting in the car. Sounds like this guy was messing with his gun and had his finger on the trigger. I see new people do it all the time. They grab a gun and their finger automatically goes to the trigger. Thank god it has always been an unloaded gun at the gun shop.

#14 cybermgk

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,916 posts
  • Joined: 10-October 17

Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:39 AM

 

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.


I think this is a better idea since you might one day forget. I take my gun and holster off as one. Holsters are cheap and you should find one that works for your situation. I’m also a kind of fat guy and can do it while sitting in the car. Sounds like this guy was messing with his gun and had his finger on the trigger. I see new people do it all the time. They grab a gun and their finger automatically goes to the trigger. Thank god it has always been an unloaded gun at the gun shop.

 

As long as he wasn't saying "pew pew pew" while he did.;


ISRA Member

NRA Member

U.S.A.F Veteran

Single Father of 2


#15 Chip74

  • Members
  • 19 posts
  • Joined: 25-September 18

Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:29 PM

Yikes! This stuff makes all of us look bad. I disarm with my gun and holster together, but I can see how that would be really difficult with other set ups(I pocket carry). I can’t imagine putting an IWB holster on and off in the car; it’s way too cumbersome.

#16 MSD

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Joined: 24-July 12

Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:33 PM

 

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.


I think this is a better idea since you might one day forget. I take my gun and holster off as one. Holsters are cheap and you should find one that works for your situation. I’m also a kind of fat guy and can do it while sitting in the car. Sounds like this guy was messing with his gun and had his finger on the trigger. I see new people do it all the time. They grab a gun and their finger automatically goes to the trigger. Thank god it has always been an unloaded gun at the gun shop.

 

Completely agree.  Even when I carry the 1911, I use a holster that I can remove with the pistol in it if necessary.  I was just making the point there is no reason to not use a safety if it is there and to mess with it while disarming, especially in tight quarters, is inviting problems.



#17 bmurph44

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 527 posts
  • Joined: 06-December 17

Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:45 PM

I wouldnt be surprised if he was disarming in the car before entering a posted (CPZ) business.

Agreed. Forcing people to handle loaded guns in public is a very dangerous policy choice. Anti's know this and frankly like the accidents.

Only if you’re incompetent.

#18 gangrel

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,081 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11

Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:58 PM

I dunno, if you cannot manage to handle a loaded gun in a way to not shoot yourself, maybe you get some more training. 
He may have been disarming, but what was his finger doing on the trigger? That is one possible reason the gun was fired. Another could be that he was removing the weapon in a way that had something else able to activate the trigger. I make sure that since disarming to go into certain places is required that I have a safe way to do so. For example I remove the gun while it is in the holster. That way the trigger is never exposed and the risk to an accidental discharge is basically zero! 

You're right...and so are they. Yes, more training and familiarity, and instilling the right mindset are crucial to avoiding NDs, and is using a rig that comes off of the belt as one unit. But even so, the risk of an ND goes up nearly infinitely when the pistol is being handled, and the pistol is at its safest when left untouched. Laws that require people to disarm for "safety" are by definition stupid. Perhaps they are written with a lack of understanding of firearm safety. Perhaps they are written in the cynical hope of causing accidents (NDs) to fuel further restrictions. But there is no intelligent argument that compelling people to handle loaded firearms is safer than allowing those firearms to remain safely on the licensee's hip. Period.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


NRA Life Member

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

NRA Certified Instructor - Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety
ISP Approved Firearm Concealed Carry Instructor

Utah CCW Instructor


#19 gangrel

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,081 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11

Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:00 PM

I would think it happened while he was re-holstering.  I use to carry in waistband with a leather holster (TCP 380) and it was such a pain to  re-holster.  The muzzle would go in, but the leather would collapse at the trigger guard.  Taking the holster off was not an option (fat guy and the clip had a rounded bottom edge making it very dfficult to get off).  I stopped using that holster because of it.
 
Now?  I put put the pistol in a lock box and when i come to the car i stand in the open door and reholster.  If someone sees it?  To bad.  I am in an around the vehicle.  For me, its the only safe way to to do it.

If he shot himself in the thigh, I'd agree with you. But he shot himself in the hand. Sounds like unholstering to store to me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


NRA Life Member

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

NRA Certified Instructor - Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety
ISP Approved Firearm Concealed Carry Instructor

Utah CCW Instructor


#20 gangrel

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,081 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11

Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:02 PM

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.

Some safeties are taken off with an upward strike, some with a downward. If someone has both, how do they incorporate this mindset?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


NRA Life Member

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

NRA Certified Instructor - Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety
ISP Approved Firearm Concealed Carry Instructor

Utah CCW Instructor


#21 Hipshot Percussion

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,007 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:41 PM

I've said here before, if a holster maker wanted to make a mint, they would make a kydex holster in a holster.  Your gun goes into a holster, which then slips into a 'sleeve' holster, which snaps into place - like a retention holster.  Then you can draw without worrying about the holster coming out with the gun.  To unholster for safe keeping, maybe  you press a button with your index finger - maybe on the holster on top of the slide, then pull out the gun with the safety sleeve on it.  Place in in your box, then to reholster, just slip your holstered gun back into the sleeve till it snaps.

 

Or something like that. :)


“I have fought the good fight to the end; I have run the race to the finish: I have kept the faith."  Timothy Chapter 4 verse 7

 

"Legitimate self-defense has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal misuse of guns."   Gerald Vernon, veteran firearms instructor

 

New Gunner Journal

 


#22 soylentgreen

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,327 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 15

Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:49 PM

I've said here before, if a holster maker wanted to make a mint, they would make a kydex holster in a holster.  Your gun goes into a holster, which then slips into a 'sleeve' holster, which snaps into place - like a retention holster.  Then you can draw without worrying about the holster coming out with the gun.  To unholster for safe keeping, maybe  you press a button with your index finger - maybe on the holster on top of the slide, then pull out the gun with the safety sleeve on it.  Place in in your box, then to reholster, just slip your holstered gun back into the sleeve till it snaps.

 

Or something like that. :)

 

This is a great idea. It could be made so that the kydex shell snaps onto a belt clip that stays in place.

Either way...I switched from a 1911 with a hair trigger to a Glock. I will not modify the trigger for a lighter pull and don't recommend anyone do so for a daily carry weapon. 



#23 KingWalleye

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 11

Posted 09 October 2018 - 06:21 PM

Trying to remove a double clip hybrid holster while seated in a vehicle is a PIA. Or carrying owb.

I carry a Remora in my truck for times when I have to disarm. 

The safety rules always apply. Finger off of the trigger from start to finish and no flagging any body parts. 



#24 CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 466 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 08

Posted 09 October 2018 - 06:45 PM

Does anyone know what the charges were if any at all? 



#25 soundguy

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 5,614 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 05

Posted 09 October 2018 - 06:58 PM

 

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.

Some safeties are taken off with an upward strike, some with a downward. If someone has both, how do they incorporate this mindset?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

 

Practice, awareness, mindfulness.

Carrying guns that operate the same would be smart.

Why ever be confused?

 

The safety release of my Hi Power, equipped with SFS (Hammer Down Cocked & Locked), sometimes catches on my holster when inserting the gun. Before I am finished re-holstering, I always make sure the hammer is down (safe position) by pressing it down. It's part of the routine and I will not forget.

 

Re-holstering my Sig P938 or CZ Compact cocked and locked is a different routine. I prefer the Hi Power to either of them.

 

Should I ever venture to the 1911 realm, an SFS kit would be the first thing I would add.

 

If you carry different guns, it may be wise if your EDC summer, winter and Sunday BBQ guns all operate the same way.


Life is a cooperative venture... That's what makes it work.

#26 HeavyDuty

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,115 posts
  • Joined: 01-October 13

Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:17 AM

I choose to only put on and take off my holstered gun. It’s simple risk mitigation.

#27 Gamma

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 13

Posted 10 October 2018 - 09:40 AM

I've said here before, if a holster maker wanted to make a mint, they would make a kydex holster in a holster.  Your gun goes into a holster, which then slips into a 'sleeve' holster, which snaps into place - like a retention holster.  Then you can draw without worrying about the holster coming out with the gun.  To unholster for safe keeping, maybe  you press a button with your index finger - maybe on the holster on top of the slide, then pull out the gun with the safety sleeve on it.  Place in in your box, then to reholster, just slip your holstered gun back into the sleeve till it snaps.
 
Or something like that. :)

I've envisioned something very similar actually. Basically a thin kydex pocket carry holster, that would snap into a slightly larger hybrid holster.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#28 gangrel

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,081 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11

Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:16 AM


 

Try training to flip the safety as a part of a draw so you can keep the safety on.  I trained myself that way because I sometimes carry a 1911.  I find myself actually flipping  a non existent safety when using other firearms.  No biggie.

Some safeties are taken off with an upward strike, some with a downward. If someone has both, how do they incorporate this mindset?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 


 
Practice, awareness, mindfulness.
Carrying guns that operate the same would be smart.
Why ever be confused?
 
The safety release of my Hi Power, equipped with SFS (Hammer Down Cocked & Locked), sometimes catches on my holster when inserting the gun. Before I am finished re-holstering, I always make sure the hammer is down (safe position) by pressing it down. It's part of the routine and I will not forget.
 
Re-holstering my Sig P938 or CZ Compact cocked and locked is a different routine. I prefer the Hi Power to either of them.
 
Should I ever venture to the 1911 realm, an SFS kit would be the first thing I would add.
 
If you carry different guns, it may be wise if your EDC summer, winter and Sunday BBQ guns all operate the same way.

You apparently didn't notice that I was responding directly to someone who advised getting in the habit of always taking the safety on the draw stroke, even when carrying a gun with no safety. The inherant assumption there is that thumb safeties are thumb all the same or similar. I am challenging that line of thought.

I appreciate your insight, but I was not asking a question to which I did not already know the answer.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


NRA Life Member

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

NRA Certified Instructor - Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety
ISP Approved Firearm Concealed Carry Instructor

Utah CCW Instructor


#29 vito

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,781 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 04

Posted 25 October 2018 - 08:30 AM

Another good reason to consider a good pocket holster. I take the gun out, holster and all, and never have to expose the trigger to accidentally engaging it. The only time the gun would leave my pocket without the holster is if I am drawing the weapon with the intention of firing it. Being a bit thicker around the midsection that I should be, IWB holsters are universally uncomfortable for me. Sometimes I use an OWB holster, and if I had to remove it before entry into a prohibited location I just undo my belt and slide the holster and gun off the belt for storage in my car. But most of the time I pocket carry and never have come even close to being in a position where an accidental firing was possible. 


Retired U.S. Army and Veteran of the Vietnam conflict

NRA Life Member

Fully retired!

 


#30 2smartby1/2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 414 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 18

Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:51 AM

For those that pocket carry....what do you carry?

 

That is starting to make more sense.....my IWB was annoying with a Shield9.   

 

Maybe a Ruger LCP?  That is what my instructor had recommended. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users