MIrwin Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:09 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:09 PM We have probably all seen them, the no weapons signs, I know that they arent the legal, but if a business has one is it enforceable? Can you tell someone carrying concealed they have to leave? And if they refused, what are the options? I ask because I work for a company with one posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevepk Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:32 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:32 PM The sign must be the one approved by the ISP. Enforceable? You bet big time! Do a search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeghl Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:33 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:33 PM That's been a good question for a couple of years now. The signs don't have force of law, so IF arrested under actions of that sign, your lawyer could embarrass the local state's attorney into leaving the state and you walk free after scoring a huge win for freedom and the law. OR....the judge might consider private property rights to be sacrosanct, and since even 'illegal' signs suggest the property owner's intent....you could lose big time and have to spend the money to appeal and appeal and appeal until you get to a judge that thinks the sign is illegal. You pays your money and you takes your chances. In either case, should anyone get charged under an 'illegal sign with no force of law', I'm sure it would be followed all over the state for the precedent it would set. As far as your company's sign? Too little info there.....is the company owner worried about increase insurance rates if he/she doesn't post? Is there even an iota of legal requirement to post? (several sub-tiers of suppliers below State or Federal supplier/vendor requirements to worry about?) Some jackwagon scare-talked the owner into posting? Can you talk to the manager and try to convince him/her to take it down? Lots of options, all we can really go on is saying "Good luck". It would be better if you could get the sign removed....it's happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:47 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:47 PM We have probably all seen them, the no weapons signs, I know that they arent the legal, but if a business has one is it enforceable? Can you tell someone carrying concealed they have to leave? And if they refused, what are the options?I ask because I work for a company with one posted Asking a person to leave because they're exercising a protected right is like asking them to leave because of race or gender to my way of thinking. But, our society doesn't value the Second Amendment as much as others so, if you're asked and you don't leave, there could be trespass charges if they wanted to make a big deal of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIrwin Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:56 PM Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 08:56 PM The sign must be the one approved by the ISP. Enforceable? You bet big time! Do a searchSo the generic no weapons sign is enforceable?I don’t like the fact they don’t want legal concealed carry, but we have A majority of customers who are not legal to own as they are felons, We also have a lot of gang members, I wanna be able to Do my job and protect everyone, I am not gonna be able to change Policy of no weapons, just wondering if I can enforce it with current signage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomG Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:35 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:35 PM The sign must be the one approved by the ISP. Enforceable? You bet big time! Do a searchSo the generic no weapons sign is enforceable?I don’t like the fact they don’t want legal concealed carry, but we haveA majority of customers who are not legal to own as they are felons,We also have a lot of gang members, I wanna be able toDo my job and protect everyone, I am not gonna be able to changePolicy of no weapons, just wondering if I can enforce it with current signage. It is enforceable if they ask you to leave or disarm and you refuse. Then you are trespassing, but still not breaking the CCL law. You are only breaking the CCL law if they post a state approved GFZ sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenryill Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:45 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:45 PM What does your company policy or contract state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIrwin Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:49 PM Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:49 PM Company policy is ask them to leave, I know that they can be trespass from site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIrwin Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:49 PM Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 09:49 PM Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:01 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:01 PM The relevant question is: Does a no weapons allowed sign express the intent of the property owner to not have weapons carried onto the premises? NOTE: whether you consider the sign âillegalâ or whether the sign meets the requirements of the Illinois concealed carry act is really IRRELEVANT, well, perhaps not totally irrelevant but relevant ONLY to what one might be arrested for and charged with. Carrying onto premises posted with a sign that does not meet the specific requirements specified by the FCCL Act simply makes it such that one cannot likely be charged with violating THAT Act. HOWEVER, one can be charged with Criminal Trespass to Real Property. Reference whatâs shown below. Specifically (a) 2. Simply put, despite what everybody might think, or believe, or wish carrying under the auspices of the FCCL does NOT make one exempt from all of the other laws and statutes of the state. The signage specified under the act (the âlegalâ signs) apply ONLY to licensees under the act and carry specific meanings UNDER THE ACT. The other signage (the âillegalâ signs) can apply to everybody. So, by all means, if you âthinkâ the sign âillegalâ go right ahead and âcarry onâ. Just make sure you are prepared to suffer the consequences should you be discovered..... The outcome very well may not be what youâd wish for.... As for me, you post a sign, any sign, saying you donât want me there then I wonât go there.... Illinois Statutes Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses § 5/21-3. Criminal trespass to real property §â21-3. âCriminal trespass to real property. (a)âA person commits criminal trespass to real property when he or she: (1)âknowingly and without lawful authority enters or remains within or on a building; (2)âenters upon the land of another, after receiving, prior to the entry, notice from the owner or occupant that the entry is forbidden; (3)âremains upon the land of another, after receiving notice from the owner or occupant to depart; (3.5)âpresents false documents or falsely represents his or her identity orally to the owner or occupant of a building or land in order to obtain permission from the owner or occupant to enter or remain in the building or on the land; (3.7)âintentionally removes a notice posted on residential real estate as required by subsection (l) of Section 15-1505.8 of Article XV of the Code of Civil Procedure before the date and time set forth in the notice; âor (4)âenters a field used or capable of being used for growing crops, an enclosed area containing livestock, an agricultural building containing livestock, or an orchard in or on a motor vehicle (including an off-road vehicle, motorcycle, moped, or any other powered two-wheel vehicle) after receiving, prior to the entry, notice from the owner or occupant that the entry is forbidden or remains upon or in the area after receiving notice from the owner or occupant to depart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:14 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:14 PM I know a place in Elgin that has the sign that's 100% legal.... in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:20 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:20 PM I know a place in town that has an illegal sign. It is corprorate policy that the businesses are posted, but the local manager is very pro-2nd. So, she posted a no gun sign that she knew was not legal in Illinois, but she could tell corprorate that she had posted per their requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:21 PM Share Posted January 15, 2019 at 10:21 PM "I wanna be able to do my job and protect everyone" If you therefore are a law enforcement officer, the scenario does change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted January 16, 2019 at 12:33 AM Share Posted January 16, 2019 at 12:33 AM So, by all means, if you think the sign illegal go right ahead and carry on. Just make sure you are prepared to suffer the consequences should you be discovered..... The outcome very well may not be what you'd wish for.... As for me, you post a sign, any sign, saying you don't want me there then I won't go there.... There are no consequences to ignoring a generic "no weapons" sign, unless you are asked to leave and you refuse, which I doubt any of us would do. I ignore signs like that all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted January 16, 2019 at 03:07 AM Share Posted January 16, 2019 at 03:07 AM The sign must be the one approved by the ISP. Enforceable? You bet big time! Do a searchSo the generic no weapons sign is enforceable?I don’t like the fact they don’t want legal concealed carry, but we haveA majority of customers who are not legal to own as they are felons,We also have a lot of gang members, I wanna be able toDo my job and protect everyone, I am not gonna be able to changePolicy of no weapons, just wondering if I can enforce it with current signage. It looks like you should consider talking to a lawyer for professional advise. Most of the answers here appear to be from the responsibility of a legal CCer. You are asking as an agent of the establishment. You do have the option of calling the police, if you know that someone on the premises is illegally carrying. They are violating the law whether they are on the premises or walking down the street. That certainly may not be prudent for your own safety. Your "obligation" to protect everyone has its limits. Again, seek a lawyer's advice. Employment elsewhere should be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted January 16, 2019 at 03:33 AM Share Posted January 16, 2019 at 03:33 AM And let us not forget... no matter what the outcome, even if you were to be found out, arrested and you won, that doesn't protect you from being fired. Illinois is an "at will" State and you can be fired for just about anything. If found out, they may just say "go see Human Resources for your exit interivew" and boom... out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreen Posted January 16, 2019 at 09:39 PM Share Posted January 16, 2019 at 09:39 PM I think a business owner pretty much has the right to ask anyone to leave for more or less any reason...or no reason at all. But that doesn't mean you've committed any crime. Honestly, avoiding a crime is my only concern. My question is...how does a business owner or manager know you're carrying? If you're doing it right, they'd have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted January 16, 2019 at 10:03 PM Share Posted January 16, 2019 at 10:03 PM Re non complaint signs, I recall the Jewel food store discussion. The sign was a notice to employees and vendors to not carry, customers were welcome to legally carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 17, 2019 at 09:14 AM Share Posted January 17, 2019 at 09:14 AM The sign must be the one approved by the ISP. Enforceable? You bet big time! Do a search So the generic no weapons sign is enforceable? I don’t like the fact they don’t want legal concealed carry, but we have A majority of customers who are not legal to own as they are felons, We also have a lot of gang members, I wanna be able to Do my job and protect everyone, I am not gonna be able to change Policy of no weapons, just wondering if I can enforce it with current signage. If someone is a convicted felon and illegally possessing and carrying a firearm in your business, whether you post a sign or not is utterly irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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