Talonap Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:15 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:15 PM Just wondering if any instructor has had to fail a student for IL CCL. If so, for what reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlecoilpickup Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:28 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:28 PM I'm not an instructor, but when I took the class several people did not pass the shooting qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:30 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:30 PM I have had two students not pass the qualification course the first time. In both cases, a little more live fire training was provided and I had them reshoot. Both passed the second time. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draal Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:49 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:49 PM I know that if you swept anyone during the range portion of the class, your butt was out. No refunds. Everyone in the class I attended passed I believe. Target is pretty big.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcoden Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:49 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 07:49 PM How do you not qualify? You could blind fold me, spin me around a few times, point me in the general direction and I could probably hit that bed sheet at least 70% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyg Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:00 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:00 PM Had one. Couldn't hit that bedsheet more then 50%. Even after some more practice. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:03 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:03 PM Had an older lady in my class that couldn't keep the 4 rules straight, and had a tough time with operating her firearm. Everyone else passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevepk Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:32 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 08:32 PM My wife failed to qual with her Kahr 9mm. She was jerking the trigger. The RSO watched and knew what she was doing wrong. She was not and is not familiar enough with it. That's partly my fault but she doesn't shoot enough. They dug out a 22 and absolutely nailed it. She has not carried out in public since she got her card, she knows she not ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirflyguy Posted November 8, 2014 at 09:44 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 09:44 PM No, not yet. Haven't even had to do a re-shoot yet for anyone. I think I have had no one less than 90%-ish on the range qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted November 8, 2014 at 10:42 PM Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 10:42 PM Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. So far, it seems the problems people have had have all been with the shooting portion. Anyone have trouble with the written test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ming Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:19 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:19 PM Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. So far, it seems the problems people have had have all been with the shooting portion. Anyone have trouble with the written test?written test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:32 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:32 PM Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. So far, it seems the problems people have had have all been with the shooting portion. Anyone have trouble with the written test? written test? The first day of my training was NRA Basic Pistol, which involves a written test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ming Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:58 PM Share Posted November 8, 2014 at 11:58 PM Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. So far, it seems the problems people have had have all been with the shooting portion. Anyone have trouble with the written test? written test?The first day of my training was NRA Basic Pistol, which involves a written test. yes, but it's for the instructor's information only (to see if material was covered properly). There is no pass/fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirflyguy Posted November 9, 2014 at 12:24 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 12:24 AM Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. So far, it seems the problems people have had have all been with the shooting portion. Anyone have trouble with the written test? written test?The first day of my training was NRA Basic Pistol, which involves a written test. yes, but it's for the instructor's information only (to see if material was covered properly). There is no pass/fail. Correct. It is a learning tool to reinforce important points (hence, many points are on the test twice, in both T/F and multiple choice formats). The only fail would be an inability to follow the safety rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted November 9, 2014 at 12:45 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 12:45 AM 4 for safety violations, 2 for attitude, 1 for creeping me the @$&_ out with hypothetical questions that had me a shade off from recommending a three day evaluation. Rocco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:09 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:09 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45b Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:11 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:11 AM I had a student fail the shooting portion while firing a small Keltec pistol with a score of only 17 hits visible on the target. I informed him of the score and the requirements. He asked if he had to take the class over again. I informed him that he could shoot again with his firearm, or I could supply him with a larger pistol with a more full size grip and larger sights. He shot again with a full size handgun and scored a 27. I also used this as a teaching moment that shows how small some sights are on smaller handguns and what a difference the sights and grip size can make. That is why my recommended carry guns are not the smallest, but a little larger with full size sights for easier target acquisition. Some of the smaller carry guns have minimal sights if they have sights at all and are useless at all but contact distances.IMHO Practice with your carry gun and ammunition at varying distances and even from unusual angles, like laying on your side or on your back as if you have been knocked down, and with one hand as if you have been attacked and one arm is injured or holding someone or something away from the attacker. But, by all means PRACTICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:31 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 01:31 AM That is why my recommended carry guns are not the smallest, but a little larger with full size sights for easier target acquisition. Go small or don't go at all ! http://www.illinoiscarry.com/forum/uploads/monthly_08_2013/post-3474-0-67470800-1375356363.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted November 9, 2014 at 04:56 AM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 04:56 AM We had a REALLY great Korean War Veteran that took advantage of being exempt from Day 1. On Day 2 we went through the law, drawing from the holster, and the range qualification. During the range qualification he failed to safely operate his firearm. There was no way I could sign off on his certification. He was absolutely a danger to himself and the public. He knew how to shoot well enough to both pass and to defend himself, but without safe handling, I couldn't sign off. I talked to him about it, and he understood. He agreed to come back and take Day 1 (no extra charge...just his time). After going through the safety portion, he was able to prove that he understood the 4 rules, and could safely handle his firearm. THEN we were able to pass him. Other than that, we had one pregnant woman we wouldn't allow on the range without sign off from a physician (and she'll come back to qualify sometime soon), and we had another woman who didn't tell us she'd never been on a range before...or shot a gun. She not only did great in dry-fire, but was also great during the live fire portion (2 inch group at 5 yards....great for a beginner, and good enough for defensive shooting). However, when the guy next to her started shooting a .357, she became rattled...didn't want to complete the shooting portion, and left. We spoke to her afterwards, but she didn't want to try again. Overall, we've been fortunate to have very competent and sensible students. Even the gentleman that we failed, thanked us for not just rubber stamping his certificate, and appreciated the opportunity to learn safe handling skills as well as the 4 rules we all live by. - chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarineVet Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:06 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:06 PM Interesting thread. I'm concerned about instructors helping people pass the shooting qualification especially with a different firearm than the student owns. On the other hand, I think that people are entitled to 2A rights without any class prerequisite at all. Conflicted. Maybe I'm just see how the sausage is being made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedoc Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:15 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:15 PM Sometimes students show up with a gun that they just can't handle so getting something more suited to them in their hands helps them out. Of course no one can force them off to the local gun shop after class to trade in that ilsuited gun for one that suits them better but most people seem to get it. Sometimes it is just easier to get something with less recoil in their hands so you can work with them on the shooting fundementals to get them back on track and they just need to practice the fundementals with their firearm a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:16 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 02:16 PM no - did have one student never finish the last 4 hours of class - had an 'emergency' and had to leave middle of day two several calls, e-mails nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted November 9, 2014 at 03:02 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 03:02 PM I had a student fail the shooting portion while firing a small Keltec pistol with a score of only 17 hits visible on the target. I informed him of the score and the requirements. He asked if he had to take the class over again. I informed him that he could shoot again with his firearm, or I could supply him with a larger pistol with a more full size grip and larger sights. He shot again with a full size handgun and scored a 27. I also used this as a teaching moment that shows how small some sights are on smaller handguns and what a difference the sights and grip size can make. That is why my recommended carry guns are not the smallest, but a little larger with full size sights for easier target acquisition. Some of the smaller carry guns have minimal sights if they have sights at all and are useless at all but contact distances.IMHO Practice with your carry gun and ammunition at varying distances and even from unusual angles, like laying on your side or on your back as if you have been knocked down, and with one hand as if you have been attacked and one arm is injured or holding someone or something away from the attacker. But, by all means PRACTICE. This is exactly why I bought my smaller carry piece. Sig P290 with full size night sights. That short barrel needs good sights to be accurate. This is also why I passed up any of the other fixed sight pistols. Black finish, black sights, couldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarineVet Posted November 9, 2014 at 04:34 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 04:34 PM Sometimes students show up with a gun that they just can't handle so getting something more suited to them in their hands helps them out. Of course no one can force them off to the local gun shop after class to trade in that ilsuited gun for one that suits them better but most people seem to get it. Sometimes it is just easier to get something with less recoil in their hands so you can work with them on the shooting fundementals to get them back on track and they just need to practice the fundementals with their firearm a little more.Understood. The instructors provided students a great service allowing them to demonstrate use of a better suited weapon. Yes, hopefully the students appreciate it and purchase the preferred weapon. After all, these people are entitled to 2A rights without any class prerequisite at all. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45b Posted November 9, 2014 at 05:03 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 05:03 PM When we have a student that has a problem with a firearm, if it is an equipment problem, or the firearm is just not suited to them, or they have not purchased one yet is when we loan them one to try out. I have let several students try different types of handguns, from small to larger grips sizes and revolver as well as semi-auto. I have had 14 instances of unsafe handguns when we give them a safety check before allowing them on the line. Every where from safeties that fail to operate, to parts that are missing or fell off the handgun and revolvers with defective trigger mechanisms or failing to lock up the action in use. Several handguns that we found problems with were brand new name brand firearms, that the students sent back to the factory for warranty repairs. By allowing them to try different handguns at no cost to them, we are letting them see what firearm is best suited to them, and hopefully they take the experience and buy a firearm they are more comfortable and proficient with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted November 9, 2014 at 07:06 PM Share Posted November 9, 2014 at 07:06 PM 4 for safety violations, 2 for attitude, 1 for creeping me the @$&_ out with hypothetical questions that had me a shade off from recommending a three day evaluation. RoccoHow did you deal with the creepy guy. did you tell him you failed because you are a creep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted November 10, 2014 at 01:17 AM Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 at 01:17 AM 4 for safety violations, 2 for attitude, 1 for creeping me the @$&_ out with hypothetical questions that had me a shade off from recommending a three day evaluation. RoccoHow did you deal with the creepy guy. did you tell him you failed because you are a creep? Wasn't he the little short guy elected Mayor of Chicago a few years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted November 10, 2014 at 02:20 AM Share Posted November 10, 2014 at 02:20 AM I told him that after two subtle warnings and one direct correction, that I had no choice but to remove him from the group. He said I was only kidding. I told his questions and comments had become borderline psychotic and were disrupting the class, and that frankly, I did not care if he was kidding or not at this point....he was walking back into the room to collect his belongings and he was gone. This was not a place for games. He became agitated and demanded a refund. I reiterated that he was instructed at the start of the workshop that questions that "creep me the #### out" would not be tolerated.......and I ENCOURAGE LEGAL HYPOTHETICALS ON THE LEGAL USE OF FORCE! I insist they ask questions. This person was broken.He was not being funny.He was not just inconsiderate, rude, unsafe, or disruptive.There was something wrong. He left. Every fibre of my being was screaming that that jackass was looking to kill someone. I have been training for a long time.....and I have seen a lot that has angered me, disgusted me, exasperated me.... This was different. I love what I do, but that day was a challenge. Rocco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztic Posted November 10, 2014 at 07:16 PM Share Posted November 10, 2014 at 07:16 PM 4 for safety violations, 2 for attitude, 1 for creeping me the @$&_ out with hypothetical questions that had me a shade off from recommending a three day evaluation. RoccoI'd love to hear details on the attitude folks and the creepy dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinAgains Posted November 12, 2014 at 07:08 PM Share Posted November 12, 2014 at 07:08 PM In the class I took there was a gentleman who did not pass the shooting qualification part. He was going to retake it later for no fee. And there was also a guy who kept sweeping around with his gun and was actually given 2 warnings before being asked to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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