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3 gun shotgun recommendation?


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#1 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:48 AM

I would like to try 3 gun and am looking for a shotgun that will not break the bank.  Err on the side of budget friendly.  Got any recommendations?  Would love to pick something up this week and shoot it at the Zombie Shoot this coming weekend.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

 


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#2 Dx54r

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:57 AM

But if it's a zombie shoot we are talking about, you could get a pistol grip Saiga 12 with a gas powered chainsaw attachment on the end and a drum mag.

doublestar-zombie-chainsaw-ak47.jpg

 

Realistically, I think you can't go wrong with a basic Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870.



#3 thobart

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:20 AM

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.

 

Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.



#4 Windermere

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:24 AM

Don't know your budget but you can get a versa max for around a thousand bucks. Pretty much competition ready out the box

#5 thobart

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:35 AM

Don't know your budget but you can get a versa max for around a thousand bucks. Pretty much competition ready out the box

I shoot a Versamax and I can tell you it is not competition ready out of the box.  I love it and would be my personal recommendation but I did spend money on it to get it where it needs to be.



#6 solareclipse2

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:49 AM

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.

 

Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 

I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 

 

@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours. 


I WILL LOSE EVERY ARGUMENT FROM NOW ON, I WILL WALK AWAY FROM EVERY FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION, I WILL TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.

#7 thobart

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

 

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.

 

Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 

I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 

 

@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours. 

 

Port has to be enlarged 12 (you really need at least a 10) shot tube spring tension adjusted.  It's not that you cant load them it is far harder however.  Also depends on which hand you load with and how you load (quad or by two).  If you want to ever have a good quad load you will have to cut it forward to make it smooth.  If you get a chance check out Dom's Stoeger and you will see the difference right away.  Also you can make the gun much more reliable then from the factory (they are pretty good but mine next to never ever has a problem no matter how dirty).  I can shoot my gun off of my shoulder and it will cycle no problem.  You are never going to be able to do that on an inertia only gun but you can get a lot closer then you think.

 

Over all when done the difference is night and day and it is easy to get the speed you need without having to work around the port.  You may need to also adjust how it shoots slugs by bending the barrel I would not recommend you try this on your own.  I have gotten many people to try 3gun at this point and almost all of them have gone the route I have recommended for shotgun mods.  This is including people who have bought high dollar moded guns.  Just depends on how much you want to work on the shotgun load which is the 1st thing that new people have to overcome to finish at least 1/2 way up the pack.  I can get about 8 rounds into the gun in about 5 seconds which generally makes the load a non issue on shotgun stages (this is with a load 2).  Glenn can beat that by about a second with his quad load (I am talking real times here not in your bedroom for youtube).

 

Also shotgun reliability (really every gun in 3gun) is super important .  I can count on 1 hand the number of shotgun problems I have had over the last 7 years.  I have crushed even open shooters at shootoffs due to reliability.  This is with 4 or even more people using my shotgun on a squad to the tune of over a case of shells in a match and then running it again next match with no cleaning just add some lube.  I have broken and extractor and a cam pin both now replaced with benelli parts and have had no problems since.


Edited by thobart, 04 September 2017 - 12:16 PM.


#8 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:27 PM

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.
 
Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 
I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 
 
@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours.

Buying the MK3 at GAT RIGHT now. What extension do you recommend?

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#9 thobart

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:34 PM

 

 

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.
 
Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 
I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 
 
@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours.

Buying the MK3 at GAT RIGHT now. What extension do you recommend?

 

They give you a coupon for one with it.  They just dont sell it with it attached.



#10 jagt48

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 05:15 PM

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.
 
Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 
I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 
 
@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours.

Buying the MK3 at GAT RIGHT now. What extension do you recommend?

Good choice. This is what I use for the occasional 3-Gun match. I broke it in at Range at 355 with a few boxes of slugs and it now feeds bulk Winchester without any hiccups.

#11 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:05 PM

They give you a coupon for one with it.  They just dont sell it with it attached.

 

I always get delayed and did as usual today.  Hope it won't take too long to get the approval.  In the mean time, can you tell me about the coupon?  Who is it for?  I can't find anything about mag tube extensions on the Stoeger website. 

 

The MOA Precision +5 looks good on the gun.


Edited by Illinois Sucks, 04 September 2017 - 06:05 PM.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#12 Windermere

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:06 PM

Don't know your budget but you can get a versa max for around a thousand bucks. Pretty much competition ready out the box

I shoot a Versamax and I can tell you it is not competition ready out of the box.  I love it and would be my personal recommendation but I did spend money on it to get it where it needs to be.

I stand corrected. Maybe I meant competition ready from a novice point of view.

#13 thobart

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 03:21 AM

 

They give you a coupon for one with it.  They just dont sell it with it attached.

 

I always get delayed and did as usual today.  Hope it won't take too long to get the approval.  In the mean time, can you tell me about the coupon?  Who is it for?  I can't find anything about mag tube extensions on the Stoeger website. 

 

The MOA Precision +5 looks good on the gun.

 

Sorry I am wrong on this they used to have one but no longer do.  I would recommend the xrail monotube as it is one piece tube which makes it super strong.  It is also the most expensive one.  Nordic makes an extension and moa makes one that work fine but are not as strong.

 

Here is the link to the xrail

 

http://www.xrailbyrc...eger-m3000-m3k/



#14 thobart

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 03:26 AM

 

 

Don't know your budget but you can get a versa max for around a thousand bucks. Pretty much competition ready out the box

I shoot a Versamax and I can tell you it is not competition ready out of the box.  I love it and would be my personal recommendation but I did spend money on it to get it where it needs to be.

I stand corrected. Maybe I meant competition ready from a novice point of view.

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was shooting you down.  I agree with you on shotgun pick I love my versamax and could have bought anything I wanted.  I just have experienced just about everything that happens with the shotguns at 3 gun matches in the last 7 years.  Most new guys cant get shells in the gun and struggle.  For a few hundred dollars this all goes away and with a great smith the gun just runs and runs.  I have had the chance to shoot with most of the top pro's on the circuit and a few are even friends.  This really begins to show you what works and what does not.



#15 solareclipse2

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 12:56 PM

 

 

Best budget shotgun right now is the Steoger m3k.  Much better then the Mossburg and you really dont want a pump for 3gun.  You will have to have some work done on anything you buy in terms of getting it to load well.  Glenn Nyenhuis is awesome at this and does not charge an arm and a leg.
 
Most common shotguns are the m2, Versamax and then the Mossburg and Steoger.

 
I'll second the M3K. I shoot it in 3 gun and it's been great. If OP were to order it now, he could probably get the mag tube extension before the Zombie shoot. 
 
@thobart, I generally don't have a problem loading mine so I'm curious what you needed to do to yours.

Buying the MK3 at GAT RIGHT now. What extension do you recommend?

 

 

I think I went with an MOA +5 extension on mine because I wanted to stay in factory class without having to do too much thinking about did I load the max # of shots or not. 

 

I haven't had any real problems with loading or a desire to enlarge my loading port but I know it's a common thing. 

 

I also haven't had any reliability issues either. I shoot the cheap $22/box shells that Walmart sells. I've cycled several hundred of them and had zero failures. 

 

I know there's a recoil reducer for the Benelli that will fit the M3K but I haven't had much interest in it. 

 

I went from shooting my Mossberg 590A1 to the Stoeger, so I can say I'm missing the ghost ring sights. I may end up adding rear sights to the gun just so I can get a 3 dot picture. 


Edited by solareclipse2, 05 September 2017 - 12:56 PM.

I WILL LOSE EVERY ARGUMENT FROM NOW ON, I WILL WALK AWAY FROM EVERY FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION, I WILL TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.

#16 thobart

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 01:04 PM

You can have a larger tube and not get moved up in class you just cant start with more in the tube.  The cheap shells from Walmart have recently even become cheaper as they have even softer rims.  I have seen these choke just about everybody up when you run the gun hard.  The reason I recommend the monotube is I have seen people bend the tube on extensions when running into props on stages.  I have the recoil reducer on my Nova and it works well you may not need it on the Steoger.  Ghost ring sights are great for slugs but will slow you down on closer steel a lot of people go with a small rear mounted forward that you can ignore when not needed.



#17 DD123

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 01:32 PM

I just replaced the tube I had on my Stoeger and picked up a +8 tube and a cap from MOA Precision.  

 

Since I already had the adaptor nut, I didn't need to order that, but they do sell it as a kit where you get the tube, end cap, adaptor nut, and a spring.  The only thing missing is the upgraded follower.  

 

The M3K is almost ready out of the box, but it can use some tuning.  One of our buddies just bought one earlier this year, and while they don't need the amount of work an M3000 needs, they do need some tweaking particularly to the port, and some other miscellaneous areas.  

 

The only malfunction I've had with mine was when I introduced a double feed a couple of times.  Turns out if you have a shell on the lifter and accidentally hit the shell release, you get a double feed lol.  Learn how to clear those quickly.  

 

Tony mentioned Glenn being the guy to tune it, and he's the one who did mine.  I don't know all of the details regarding which parts need to be changed in the M3K, but I know that there are a couple that get swapped out for Benelli parts.  

 

You'll be happy with the shotgun.  Had I not been able to find a deal on mine, I would have ordered the M3K.  Earlier this year I toyed with the idea of getting a Benelli, but after thinking about how good this Stoeger has been, there's really no reason.  I usually let it go about 2-3 matches before I give it a cleaning, but between matches I'll run a bore snake down the bore, and squirt some oil into where the bolt enters the carrier.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#18 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 06:04 PM

Thanks for all the advice.  I ordered the +5 from MOA.  I like the idea of being able to swap out to a different size tube cheaply if needed.  I ordered the precision follower also.  Any thoughts on the Nordic Components Barrel Clamp?  Will this help prevent a bent tube as thobart mentioned?

 

The approval came through.  Time to go pick it up!


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#19 thobart

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

If you do not need the clamp do not use it.  it is just one more thing to take apart when cleaning the gun.  This is really the best option for a shotgun in the price range I would highly recommend calling Glenn and talking to him about it.  He is the expert by far.  Even if you dont have him do work on it just picking his brain on it will really give you an idea of what you want or dont want to do going forward.  He will be happy to spend the time just make sure you set up a bit of time to talk to him.  Tell him Tony sent you.
To



#20 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 06:41 PM

If you do not need the clamp do not use it.  it is just one more thing to take apart when cleaning the gun.  This is really the best option for a shotgun in the price range I would highly recommend calling Glenn and talking to him about it.  He is the expert by far.  Even if you dont have him do work on it just picking his brain on it will really give you an idea of what you want or dont want to do going forward.  He will be happy to spend the time just make sure you set up a bit of time to talk to him.  Tell him Tony sent you.
To

 

Do you have his contact info?  Forgive me if I missed it somewhere.

 

Thanks!.


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#21 DD123

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 06:46 PM

 

If you do not need the clamp do not use it.  it is just one more thing to take apart when cleaning the gun.  This is really the best option for a shotgun in the price range I would highly recommend calling Glenn and talking to him about it.  He is the expert by far.  Even if you dont have him do work on it just picking his brain on it will really give you an idea of what you want or dont want to do going forward.  He will be happy to spend the time just make sure you set up a bit of time to talk to him.  Tell him Tony sent you.
To

 

Do you have his contact info?  Forgive me if I missed it somewhere.

 

Thanks!.

 

PM'ing it to you.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#22 solareclipse2

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:13 AM

Thanks for all the advice.  I ordered the +5 from MOA.  I like the idea of being able to swap out to a different size tube cheaply if needed.  I ordered the precision follower also.  Any thoughts on the Nordic Components Barrel Clamp?  Will this help prevent a bent tube as thobart mentioned?

 

The approval came through.  Time to go pick it up!

 

I noticed a little wobble in my tube and I didn't want to take the chance on bending it or something worse. I 3d printed my own barrel clamp and used some fasteners from the hardware store to put it together. It keeps barrel in place and only cost me a few cents worth of plastic and about a buck in nuts and machine screws. The clamp is really just good for preventing the tube from getting severely out of whack. It still moves a little but you're not going to rip it off with the clamp.


I WILL LOSE EVERY ARGUMENT FROM NOW ON, I WILL WALK AWAY FROM EVERY FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION, I WILL TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.

#23 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:40 AM

For those that shoot the M3K, what shells do you shoot? Looking for cheap break in rounds, cheap practice rounds, and for competing, good birdshot good slugs and good buckshot.

Thanks for all the help on this.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#24 jagt48

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:15 AM

Since I shoot at an indoor range I broke mine in with about 50 rounds of Herters slugs. The ones Cabela's sells for $5.99/10. It kicks much less than my 1897 if you're concerned about recoil. After that I've shot whatever I can find from Walmart or the 250 round bulk packs from Cabela's. I know there's better ammo out there, but I'm just a casual competitor and don't have cycling issus or problems knocking down plates or banging the spinners around.

#25 DD123

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM

If you're looking for a barrel clamp, go with the Taccom one since it doesn't actually touch the barrel.  It's really really close to touching, but doesn't.  

 

The problem with clamping anything onto the tube that actually touches the barrel, is that it will shift your point of impact with slugs.  That's even a problem with something that comes close to touching the barrel because of how the barrel oscillates after firing a round.  That oscillation is enough to touch the clamp depending on where you place it.  The further forward you place it, the more subject it is to oscillating into the barrel clamp.   

 

I have the Taccom barrel clamp on mine, and it hasn't affected the point of impact of my slugs.  I positioned it to where if you looked at where the barrel leaves the receiver and call that 0%, and the end of the muzzle 100%, my clamp is at 40% of the way.  

 

I actually asked Glenn about this yesterday, specifically with regard to taking it off and he told me to leave it on, so on it stays lol.  


Edited by DD123, 06 September 2017 - 09:10 AM.

Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#26 DD123

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:09 AM

For those that shoot the M3K, what shells do you shoot? Looking for cheap break in rounds, cheap practice rounds, and for competing, good birdshot good slugs and good buckshot.

Thanks for all the help on this.

Once you get your shotgun broken in, people tend to use Federal Dove and target loads.  

 

What you're looking to get is 2 3/4", 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz #8 loads.  After you have about 1K-2K rounds through the shotgun, it should be able to cycle lighter loads like 2 3/4 dram.  The dram number is basically the powder charge.  

 

For slugs, you should try a few different managed/low recoil options.  A lot of people shoot the Fiocci 7/8 oz low recoil slugs.  The item number on those is 12LESLUG.  They shoot POA at 50 yards, and slightly low at 100 yards.  They're dead on as far as windage goes.  They're scary accurate.  The only issue with those is when it's cold out, sometimes they don't have enough power to cycle the action.  I haven't had a chance to test out a couple of theories that I'm working on to solve that problem, but I will get a chance this year.  I'm thinking that tossing a hand warmer in my pocket along with my slugs may heat them up enough to increase their velocity.  The powder seems to be a bit temperature sensitive so that might help along with using a thinner oil.  

 

The shells I'm using now are from a company called Clever, their Super Target Mirage.  I'm using the lighter 2 3/4 dram, but they do sell the standard full power loads.  You can find them here:  http://www.gamaliel....993767C9AA292C9

 

Those Clever shells have been great.  So far everyone that I know with a Stoeger who shoots those shells, hasn't had a problem with them.  Other people have had issues, but they also are using different shotguns.  

 

Walmart sells a bulk pack of target ammo, and last year it used to be the exact same ammo as the Dove and Target, however they changed the hull and the "brass" and the stuff is garbage.  The shells are also a bit longer than the Dove and Target, and the crimps are terrible.  For practice ammo, I think the Walmart Federal bulk packs would be fine, but I wouldn't use them in a match.  They're far too inconsistent, and the rims are too soft causing the extractor to tear into them causing malfunctions.  

 

Your best bet would be to buy a box of several different brands that are cheap and try them out.  Just make sure you're not buying steel shot because shooting steel shot at steel targets would not be a good thing, and you'll get tossed from a match.  

 

Aside from that, there are occasional calls for buckshot, and this is what almost everyone uses:  http://www.gamaliel....litecontrol.asp

 

Some people like using Turkey Loads on spinner targets, and in general people use Prairie Storms on those.  https://www.grafs.co...productId/25451

 

With regard to the Turkey loads, I wouldn't get those right away until you've had a chance to shoot a spinner with standard loads.  The worst thing that can happen is you learn how to shoot them with a turkey load, and then you go to a match where they specify that no turkey loads are allowed.  

 

It's definitely a lot of information, but it should be more than enough to get you started.  

 

Just remember....when it comes to slugs, some people shoot full power sluggers.  I don't know why, but I see it from time to time and it's pretty funny because they're punishing themselves for no good reason lol.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#27 thobart

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:56 AM

The Remington reduced recoil slugs are good as well you can get them at Gamaiel as well for 4.95 a box shipped.  Gun club and federal (not walmart federal) are pretty good as is the Clever.



#28 jagt48

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

I know you didn't ask, but I use the Invictus Practical shell caddies.

https://www.joebobou...-p/ip-s8-tl.htm

I can grab two or four at a time and load fairly quickly. I started with the cheap horizontal carriers, but I couldn't draw more than one or two at a time, and then I had to load the shells one at a time. I used them for one match and ran out of time on two out of five stages and picked up the Invictus ones. They are amazing.

#29 solareclipse2

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:02 AM

I shoot the cheap shells from Walmart. Over 400 through my gun no problem. I'll be running them Saturday at the Zombie Shoot too. I don't shoot a lot of slugs and don't get to practice with them either. I actually only have had to shoot a few of them in matches but I grabbed some Herter's from Cabela's. They cycle fine but I'm not accurate with them. 
 
For 3 gun, definitely get some shell caddies. I didn't want to spend the cash on them so I printed some with the 3d printer. 
 
 
Having the caddies is so much faster than loading from a pocket or dump pouch. 

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#30 DD123

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:33 AM

When buying 3 gun gear, there are discount codes all over the place.  

 

If you join this FB group, the pinned post is a gigantic post of discount codes:  https://www.facebook...47977835560330/

 

Always search there before ordering gear in case a code is available.  


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If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

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