Jump to content


Photo

Purchasing from Lehigh Defense's website


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 ArmedWithKnowledge

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 17

Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:21 PM

I was planning on purchasing a couple boxes of Lehigh Defense - Xtreme Defense in .380 but I couldn't find a place on their website to submit a photo of my FOID/DL. While looking I came across their shipping policy page and for Cook County, IL (where I live) it literally says "No ammo without FFL". What freakin nonsense is this? Not only is there no restriction (other than sending in your FOID/DL and it being shipped to the address listed on your ID), but there has NEVER been a law/bill/statute requiring ammo to be sent to an FFL. Have any of you successfully purchased from Lehigh Defense before (via their website or otherwise), or tried and were not successful? I sent an email to their customer service/sales rep to ask about this policy they have listed, but I thought I'd toss out another line here to see if anyone else has encountered this.

Thanks



#2 spaceman spiff

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined: 12-July 15

Posted 31 August 2017 - 08:01 PM

Never heard of this before. I've come accross some online retailers that won't ship to Cook County as well as others that will not ship to zip codes starting with 600,606, etc. My go to site for ammo is www.sgammo.com they have very fair prices and fast shipping.


NRA Member

ISRA Member


#3 tkroenlein

    OFFICIAL MEMBER

  • Members
  • 8,117 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:31 AM

Underwood Ammo loads Lehigh Defense bullets. They will sell to you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#4 ArmedWithKnowledge

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 17

Posted 01 September 2017 - 08:29 AM

I heard back from Lehigh (very fast response time, I'm impressed). I was told I'm correct and to place the order, then send an email with my DL/FOID attached and reference the order number. I'll be placing my order today. If nothing else, they're off to a great start with their prompt and friendly customer service.



#5 Jeffrey

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,123 posts
  • Joined: 10-January 08

Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

I heard back from Lehigh (very fast response time, I'm impressed). I was told I'm correct and to place the order, then send an email with my DL/FOID attached and reference the order number. I'll be placing my order today. If nothing else, they're off to a great start with their prompt and friendly customer service.

That is great that they fixed the problem for you.  Hopefully they will fix the wording on their site for all.


...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#6 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:12 PM

I was planning on purchasing a couple boxes of Lehigh Defense - Xtreme Defense in .380 but I couldn't find a place on their website to submit a photo of my FOID/DL. While looking I came across their shipping policy page and for Cook County, IL (where I live) it literally says "No ammo without FFL". What freakin nonsense is this? Not only is there no restriction (other than sending in your FOID/DL and it being shipped to the address listed on your ID), but there has NEVER been a law/bill/statute requiring ammo to be sent to an FFL. Have any of you successfully purchased from Lehigh Defense before (via their website or otherwise), or tried and were not successful? I sent an email to their customer service/sales rep to ask about this policy they have listed, but I thought I'd toss out another line here to see if anyone else has encountered this.

Thanks

 

I have tested extensively both Lehigh Defense's versions of their Xtreme Defense and Underwood Ammo's version of the Lehigh projectile, in both gelatin and, more important, in pig carcasses along with various barriers and protection.

 

Hands down, the hotter versions that Underwood produces, in .380 through .45, do more tissue damage and have better penetration than the Lehigh versions. Not that the latter are bad, by any means, but Underwood has maximized the terminal ballistic performance of almost all of Lehigh's projectiles.

 

Plus, they are an Illinois-based company, and they are very easy to order from. They also have great prices for their ammunition.


“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#7 ArmedWithKnowledge

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 17

Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

Just a quick update while I happen to be here...

Lehigh Defense's .380 Auto 65gr Xtreme Defense rounds performed flawlessly in my Sig P238. I had zero feeding issues and they were highly accuracy. Tore some nice ragged holes in the target too. On a side note, they left a large amount of copper dust inside my gun which I found surprising considering they are solid copper (rather than plated/jacketed). But since they aren't target rounds anyway, it's a non-ssue.

So to sum up, 100 rounds with zero issues and I'm confident carrying them as my .380 SD rounds.



#8 tkroenlein

    OFFICIAL MEMBER

  • Members
  • 8,117 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:13 PM

I gotta try those. A 380 in a pocket ain't much, but it's a whole lot more than nothing when it's all you can carry. I've been eyeing up Mag Guts +1 mag spring and follower kits. It'll turn my little Kahr into a 7+1 or 8+1 pocket gun. With two of the big mags a fella could carry 17 rounds with only his pocket gun and one tiny spare mag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#9 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:29 PM

I gotta try those. A 380 in a pocket ain't much, but it's a whole lot more than nothing when it's all you can carry. I've been eyeing up Mag Guts +1 mag spring and follower kits. It'll turn my little Kahr into a 7+1 or 8+1 pocket gun. With two of the big mags a fella could carry 17 rounds with only his pocket gun and one tiny spare mag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I suggest that you get the Underwood loadings of that round, which are 1,400 fps compared to 1,150 fps for the Lehigh loadings. It makes a WORLD of difference with that additional 250 fps. Not only are the Underwoods only $27.99 compared to $30.50 for the ones from Lehigh, they perform literally close to twice as well in actual bodies (pigs, at the very least), plus they will go through at least an Level II vest. However, as Underwood says on their site for that loading:

 

The .380 Xtreme series went through a design change in the summer of 2015 to provide consistent feeding and compatibility in all .380 handguns. However, a small amount of customers are experiencing feeding problems in Kahr .380s and Sig P238s. Take into consideration, most customers with the same handguns are running the Xtreme series just fine.

 

If you are a Kahr or Sig P238 owner, we would highly recommend purchasing a small amount to function test before a larger purchase is made.

 

I'd suggest springing for a box of them to test, then if they work in your particular firearm, and you load, see about getting loading data from Underwood along with buying the components from them and trying to duplicate what they do as closely as possible. That would be the best of both worlds. But, even so, you can't go wrong with just getting them from Underwood itself.


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 04 October 2017 - 08:31 PM.

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#10 tkroenlein

    OFFICIAL MEMBER

  • Members
  • 8,117 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:38 PM

I gotta try those. A 380 in a pocket ain't much, but it's a whole lot more than nothing when it's all you can carry. I've been eyeing up Mag Guts +1 mag spring and follower kits. It'll turn my little Kahr into a 7+1 or 8+1 pocket gun. With two of the big mags a fella could carry 17 rounds with only his pocket gun and one tiny spare mag.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
I suggest that you get the Underwood loadings of that round, which are 1,400 fps compared to 1,150 fps for the Lehigh loadings. It makes a WORLD of difference with that additional 250 fps. Not only are the Underwoods only $27.99 compared to $30.50 for the ones from Lehigh, they perform literally close to twice as well in actual bodies (pigs, at the very least), plus they will go through at least an Level II vest. However, as Underwood says on their site for that loading:
 
The .380 Xtreme series went through a design change in the summer of 2015 to provide consistent feeding and compatibility in all .380 handguns. However, a small amount of customers are experiencing feeding problems in Kahr .380s and Sig P238s. Take into consideration, most customers with the same handguns are running the Xtreme series just fine.
 
If you are a Kahr or Sig P238 owner, we would highly recommend purchasing a small amount to function test before a larger purchase is made.
 
I'd suggest springing for a box of them to test, then if they work in your particular firearm, and you load, see about getting loading data from Underwood along with buying the components from them and trying to duplicate what they do as closely as possible. That would be the best of both worlds. But, even so, you can't go wrong with just getting them from Underwood itself.


Yes, I would go for the Underwood version. Their 90gr XP is listed at 1100, almost as fast as Lehigh's 65gr XD. Even Underwoods standard pressure 65gr XD is listed at 1300. That's cookin for a 380.

#11 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:09 PM

 

I gotta try those. A 380 in a pocket ain't much, but it's a whole lot more than nothing when it's all you can carry. I've been eyeing up Mag Guts +1 mag spring and follower kits. It'll turn my little Kahr into a 7+1 or 8+1 pocket gun. With two of the big mags a fella could carry 17 rounds with only his pocket gun and one tiny spare mag.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
I suggest that you get the Underwood loadings of that round, which are 1,400 fps compared to 1,150 fps for the Lehigh loadings. It makes a WORLD of difference with that additional 250 fps. Not only are the Underwoods only $27.99 compared to $30.50 for the ones from Lehigh, they perform literally close to twice as well in actual bodies (pigs, at the very least), plus they will go through at least an Level II vest. However, as Underwood says on their site for that loading:
 
The .380 Xtreme series went through a design change in the summer of 2015 to provide consistent feeding and compatibility in all .380 handguns. However, a small amount of customers are experiencing feeding problems in Kahr .380s and Sig P238s. Take into consideration, most customers with the same handguns are running the Xtreme series just fine.
 
If you are a Kahr or Sig P238 owner, we would highly recommend purchasing a small amount to function test before a larger purchase is made.
 
I'd suggest springing for a box of them to test, then if they work in your particular firearm, and you load, see about getting loading data from Underwood along with buying the components from them and trying to duplicate what they do as closely as possible. That would be the best of both worlds. But, even so, you can't go wrong with just getting them from Underwood itself.


Yes, I would go for the Underwood version. Their 90gr XP is listed at 1100, almost as fast as Lehigh's 65gr XD. Even Underwoods standard pressure 65gr XD is listed at 1300. That's cookin for a 380.

 

 

Also, I happen to know that the Underwood versions of those work *very* well on two-legged targets. Two of my self-protection students who have had defensive shootings used them, out of a Browning 1911-380, and they performed exactly as advertised. I imagine that they would do as well out of any other good .380, as well.


“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#12 ArmedWithKnowledge

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 17

Posted 05 October 2017 - 07:05 PM

I would have to disagree with the recommendation to use the Xtreme Penetrator, and certainly not the hotter Underwood load considering just as the name says, it's designed for high penetration (something you don't want in a SD round). The Xtreme Defense round however is specifically designed to create a larger permanent wound cavity than the XP round without overpenetrating (or underpenetrating for that matter) and thus risking any innocent "non-combatants" behind an assailant. But ultimately you'll have to make that decision for yourself.

#13 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:51 PM

I would have to disagree with the recommendation to use the Xtreme Penetrator, and certainly not the hotter Underwood load considering just as the name says, it's designed for high penetration (something you don't want in a SD round). The Xtreme Defense round however is specifically designed to create a larger permanent wound cavity than the XP round without overpenetrating (or underpenetrating for that matter) and thus risking any innocent "non-combatants" behind an assailant. But ultimately you'll have to make that decision for yourself.


The .380 version does not overpenetrate nearly as much as you would expect. Almost ideal penetration for that caliber specifically. However, my results with Underwood's Xtreme Defender do show that they create a bigger wound path and more high-speed fling-off and bone splinters. With this design, the more speed the better, and with the larger flutes, the rotational transfer due to the hydraulic force and flung out materials is magnified.

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#14 ArmedWithKnowledge

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 17

Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:58 AM

I would have to disagree with the recommendation to use the Xtreme Penetrator, and certainly not the hotter Underwood load considering just as the name says, it's designed for high penetration (something you don't want in a SD round). The Xtreme Defense round however is specifically designed to create a larger permanent wound cavity than the XP round without overpenetrating (or underpenetrating for that matter) and thus risking any innocent "non-combatants" behind an assailant. But ultimately you'll have to make that decision for yourself.


The .380 version does not overpenetrate nearly as much as you would expect. Almost ideal penetration for that caliber specifically. However, my results with Underwood's Xtreme Defender do show that they create a bigger wound path and more high-speed fling-off and bone splinters. With this design, the more speed the better, and with the larger flutes, the rotational transfer due to the hydraulic force and flung out materials is magnified.
Sounds like we're in agreement on the XD vs XP rounds. To be honest one probably can't go wrong with either load of the XD (Lehigh or Underwood).

#15 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 07 October 2017 - 12:59 AM

 

 

I would have to disagree with the recommendation to use the Xtreme Penetrator, and certainly not the hotter Underwood load considering just as the name says, it's designed for high penetration (something you don't want in a SD round). The Xtreme Defense round however is specifically designed to create a larger permanent wound cavity than the XP round without overpenetrating (or underpenetrating for that matter) and thus risking any innocent "non-combatants" behind an assailant. But ultimately you'll have to make that decision for yourself.


The .380 version does not overpenetrate nearly as much as you would expect. Almost ideal penetration for that caliber specifically. However, my results with Underwood's Xtreme Defender do show that they create a bigger wound path and more high-speed fling-off and bone splinters. With this design, the more speed the better, and with the larger flutes, the rotational transfer due to the hydraulic force and flung out materials is magnified.
Sounds like we're in agreement on the XD vs XP rounds. To be honest one probably can't go wrong with either load of the XD (Lehigh or Underwood).

 

 

The Xtreme Penetrator rounds are definitely a great field/woods round, especially in 10mm or my new top-dog, .460 Rowland. However, Underwood has a new version, which appears to be something like a combination of both:

 

The Xtreme Hunter

 

The 10mm of the XH round is 150 grain compared to the 140 grain of the Xtreme Penetrator. The difference in meplat and flute geometry, as well as the heavier weight I expect will cause even more damage than either the XP or XD for the caliber. I really would like to see that in the .460 Rowland, so I have sent Underwood a letter to see if they are planning to offer it. I also plan to test some in pig carcasses sometime in the future, to see how the compare against the XD and XP.


“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users