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Is it legal to conceal carry a micro draco?


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#1 Chicago312

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:29 PM

Some kid got shot with what witness say was an ak-47 yesterday. These rifle shootings are spreading from the back of the yards neighborhood outward. The kid was lucky enough to have a cook county trauma surgeon on hand who stabilized him until paramedics arrived. He is still fighting for his life but might not ever walk again if he pulls through. So my question is, can I legally conceal carry something with more firepower than an ordinary handgun?

#2 Glock23

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:36 PM

AR / AK pistols are exactly that... pistols, aka handguns... thus preempted under the FCCA. Magazine capacity limits may still apply, though. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

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#3 Chicago312

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:03 PM

Thanks! That's what I was thinking but didn't know the legalities. Is there a mag capacity limit in the city? Thought there wasn't anything set in stone regarding mag capacity.

#4 Glock23

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:17 PM

I think according to the latest ATF update it's 15 rounds? Not clear whether or not mags fall under the preemption... may eventually have a test case, or the FCCA clarified. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Edited by Glock23, 15 August 2017 - 01:18 PM.

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#5 Bubbacs

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:28 PM

Edit: Deleted

Edited by Bubbacs, 15 August 2017 - 01:56 PM.


#6 Chicago312

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:59 PM

Yes I managed to get everything squared up and now I'm just waiting for my ISP letter saying that they have complied with the court order. Once I receive that letter, my foid application will be submitted that same day.

#7 mic6010

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

Alright I will be the voice of dissent. Even if you may be legal to do so, I have to say that using one is a really silly idea.

 

First of all you can't actually conceal carry an AK or AR pistol very effetely.... unless you're wearing a large coat and want to be super uncomfortable. You're certainly not gonna be carrying one on you with somewhere to actually go. It might be good for just walking the dog around the block if you live in Afghanistan or certain parts of Chicago, but that's about it.

And what are you gonna do in the summer ? Carry it in a bag ? That makes it all but useless as a defensive tool.

 

Secondly, even seated in a car, you can still get a pistol off your waist and into the fight as fast or maybe faster than reaching for a larger gun under the seat or on the floor next to you.

And I think that still holds true even when you're walking down the street. A slung and hidden rifle always requires some effort to get un-slung out of hiding and into a fight. And its not as muscle memory oriented as drawing a pistol imo. Which also wastes time. Also remember that if you're limited to 15 rounds you're not gaining any capacity advantage, which of course is one of the main advantages a rifle-pistol offers besides the added stopping power.

 

Also unlike everyones favorite rappers and gang bangers who love their "mini Dracos" you aren't doing drive bys or trying to spray up "da block" without any regards to what you're hitting.

You as a legitimate member of society are legally responsible for every bullet you fire. Using high powered rifles among crowded urban areas is just asking for over penetration and possible collateral damage.

If you want more stopping power why not just step up to a larger pistol caliber and learn how to shoot it well ?  And that brings me to my last point, training. That's what separates us from the bad guys. If you have a pistol and you have trained how to use it effectively you're gonna be more effective at getting shots on target faster than the untrained guy with a rifle in the vast majority of situations.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill, if you want a rifle-pistol to keep in the car "just in case" go for it. However for many reasons I wouldn't count on a rifle pistol or train with one to be my first option. That's my two cents...or at least something to think about. Good Luck.


Edited by mic6010, 15 August 2017 - 03:35 PM.

"Living in Chicago, it used to be, 'don't go out at night,' or 'be more careful at night'. Now it's turned into a place where it doesn't matter if it's day or night."  - John Hendricks.


#8 bigdudez25

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:47 PM

Alright I will be the voice of dissent. Even if you may be legal to do so, I have to say that using one is a really silly idea.

 

First of all you can't actually conceal carry an AK or AR pistol very effetely.... unless you're wearing a large coat and want to be super uncomfortable. You're certainly not gonna be carrying one on you with somewhere to actually go. It might be good for just walking the dog around the block if you live in Afghanistan or certain parts of Chicago, but that's about it.

And what are you gonna do in the summer ? Carry it in a bag ? That makes it all but useless as a defensive tool.

 

Secondly, even seated in a car, you can still get a pistol off your waist and into the fight as fast or maybe faster than reaching for a larger gun under the seat or on the floor next to you.

And I think that still holds true even when you're walking down the street. A slung and hidden rifle always requires some effort to get un-slung out of hiding and into a fight. And its not as muscle memory oriented as drawing a pistol imo. Which also wastes time. Also remember that if you're limited to 15 rounds you're not gaining any capacity advantage, which of course is one of the main advantages a rifle-pistol offers besides the added stopping power.

 

Also unlike everyones favorite rappers and gang bangers who love their "mini Dracos" you aren't doing drive bys or trying to spray up "da block" without any regards to what you're hitting.

You as a legitimate member of society are legally responsible for every bullet you fire. Using high powered rifles among crowded urban areas is just asking for over penetration and possible collateral damage.

If you want more stopping power why not just step up to a larger pistol caliber and learn how to shoot it well ?  And that brings me to my last point, training. That's what separates us from the bad guys. If you have a pistol and you have trained how to use it effectively you're gonna be more effective at getting shots on target faster than the untrained guy with a rifle in the vast majority of situations.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill, if you want a rifle-pistol to keep in the car "just in case" go for it. However for many reasons I wouldn't count on a rifle pistol or train with one to be my first option. That's my two cents...or at least something to think about. Good Luck.

What's this about being limited to 15 rounds?



#9 bigdudez25

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

No handgun is going to "match" a rifle round's firepower. I personally would concentrate more on using common sense and practicing good situational awareness to avoid conflicts with people who go around toting choppers. If you want decent stopping power, I think you're better off with a 10mm loaded hot. Even then, liability due to over-penetration is a concern. But I guess you never know when you might need to punch through a bulletproof vest or something


Edited by bigdudez25, 15 August 2017 - 04:54 PM.


#10 kster

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:07 PM

instead of draco,  i'd start thinking HK SP5K / Zenith Z5K    with 3pt shoulder harness.   



#11 HeavyDuty

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 07:33 AM

I'm a fan of AR pistols and think they can make a nice preempted car gun for troubled times, but I can't see ever carrying one concealed.

It reeks of gamer or gangbanger, and IMO if a FCCL holder is ever involved in an even marginally questionable shoot using a concealed AR or AK pistol we'll see a big push to exempt them from preemption or even an outright ban on them at the state level.

#12 mrmagloo

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:04 AM

Imho, thinking about carrying a AR pistol is flawed thinking on many levels.  If you think you need more firepower, research a larger caliber/hotter load, and a full sized steel frame.



#13 Plinkermostly

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:25 AM

Nice toy though.



#14 stm

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:36 AM

How about an FN FiveSeveN? 20 round magazines, 5.7 mm ammo at rifle velocities, all in a standard full-sized handgun. Much smaller than an AR or AK pistol. Many people believe that the regulation of handgun magazines is preempted as are handgun regulations in Illinois. Still waiting for that test case.

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#15 Chicago312

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:45 AM

Are you guys even from the city?! Do you have any idea what's going on? A few weeks ago in my neighborhood, there was a fire fight between two gangs that fired over 90 rounds! Multiple rifles were fired and two men were wounded. One was shot in the mouth. I'm not a gamer nor a gangbanger but I've seen my share of gun violence believe me and don't want to be on the other end of the scope. And I definitely avoid conflicts with people that tote choppers, that's why I don't go by the in-laws any more. They had some kid killed in front of their house about a year ago. It just seems like this **** is on every corner you turn nowadays. I saw a picture of a kid killed in the back of the yards neighborhood that was shot in the head with an ak-47 and it literally split his head down the middle, never seen anything like it.

#16 Helpdesk9

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:00 PM

How about an FN FiveSeveN?

20 round magazines, 5.7 mm ammo at rifle velocities, all in a standard full-sized handgun. Much smaller than an AR or AK pistol.

Many people believe that the regulation of handgun magazines is preempted as are handgun regulations in Illinois. Still waiting for that test case.

And you can get 30rd mags for it

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#17 stm

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:23 PM

Are you guys even from the city?! Do you have any idea what's going on? A few weeks ago in my neighborhood, there was a fire fight between two gangs that fired over 90 rounds! Multiple rifles were fired and two men were wounded. One was shot in the mouth. I'm not a gamer nor a gangbanger but I've seen my share of gun violence believe me and don't want to be on the other end of the scope. And I definitely avoid conflicts with people that tote choppers, that's why I don't go by the in-laws any more. They had some kid killed in front of their house about a year ago. It just seems like this **** is on every corner you turn nowadays. I saw a picture of a kid killed in the back of the yards neighborhood that was shot in the head with an ak-47 and it literally split his head down the middle, never seen anything like it.

No, as a matter of fact, I am not from the city. If I was, and was witness to the kind of violence you related, I would move out of the city as soon as I could.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#18 Chicago312

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

I'm working on it but it's easier said then done and while I'm here, I just want a fighting chance against any potential threats that comes my way.
I found that pic of that kid I mentioned from the back of the yards on Facebook. His enemies taunt and poke fun at his death just to antagonize the other gang members. It's all a big game to them.

#19 RandyP

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:19 PM

I DO live in the city, on the S/W side, in what used to be a changing neighborhood, until it changed  a decade ago. I am now successfully winning a game I call "The Last Gringo for two blocks".

 

I share the sentiment that carrying a rifle/pistol is impractical on most all levels and question whether a person coming upon a two gang 'firefight' would be well served by joining in the fracas.

 

I carry a double stack polymer 9mm when venturing out of the house in my car with a .380 BUG in a pants pcocket. I don't feel even slightly 'under gunned'. Should trouble appear my first plan of action involves a speedy retreat if possible. Staying low and protected being plan "B".



#20 Bubbacs

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:04 PM

No gamers
No gangbangers
People that tote choppers.....?

So what's a chopper?
And if we're not trying to be cool or a gamer, why the far out lingo?
As for carrying a ar pistol, we've moved from reasonable and sane early '14 to late '15 and now the carry crowd has gotten weird.

Lions n Tigers n Bears oh my.........

99.9 % of us won't ever see or be involved in any of this, yet based right here in these forums peeps act like or state a level of participation above 60% or more!

Firefight, haven't heard that for years.
It's like a news cast report gone bad again in Chicago, firefight, like in a war zone? Or just a shootout or shooting with three or four Mags expended?

[/rant smh]

#21 Chicago312

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:25 PM

What do you constitute as a "firefight"? Seems like a firefight to me and I'm not trying to be cool or whatever you think. I don't know you or anyone else on this form so I can give two ***** about what you think. I just asked a logical question and I mentioned a Draco because they are the smallest ak-47's you can get. No doubt about it, I'll stick with a g19 and little back up kahr p.380 for self protection, just wanted to know if one can legally carry one. No harm done

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#22 Pep

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 07:36 PM

I myself don't know about the laws on carry of an ar/ak pistol. I grew up in Pilsen , in the really late 80's / 90's & I saw my share of what bad people can do. I live in the Bridgeport / McKinley area now & it's been a busy time just alittle south on Ashland. Criminals will always carry what the law biding citizen in most cases can't carry here in Chicago cause even if caught , no accountibility & they know this.

I really think that sometimes one puts him/her self in situations they have no business being in. I preached this to friends & family a lot. The innocent bystander , wrong place wrong time does also happen. ( get killed walking your doggie ) I would like to think that anyone that is serious about self preservation of his life & his family would take the right steps to prevent a tragedy but if it comes
have confidence in his ability to put rounds on target

Glock19 with 15rd ( golddots/hst/xtp ) w/ a 17rd reload mag ' S can put the hurt on quite a few if that should be the situation. It's what I carry with a g42 in works also.

#23 Bubbacs

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:07 PM

What do you constitute as a "firefight"? Seems like a firefight to me and I'm not trying to be cool or whatever you think. I don't know you or anyone else on this form so I can give two ***** about what you think. I just asked a logical question and I mentioned a Draco because they are the smallest ak-47's you can get. No doubt about it, I'll stick with a g19 and little back up kahr p.380 for self protection, just wanted to know if one can legally carry one. No harm done


Ouch

#24 es503IL

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:02 PM

What do you constitute as a "firefight"? Seems like a firefight to me and I'm not trying to be cool or whatever you think. I don't know you or anyone else on this form so I can give two ***** about what you think. I just asked a logical question and I mentioned a Draco because they are the smallest ak-47's you can get. No doubt about it, I'll stick with a g19 and little back up kahr p.380 for self protection, just wanted to know if one can legally carry one. No harm done

 

I'm working on it but it's easier said then done and while I'm here, I just want a fighting chance against any potential threats that comes my way.
I found that pic of that kid I mentioned from the back of the yards on Facebook. His enemies taunt and poke fun at his death just to antagonize the other gang members. It's all a big game to them.

 
1) I have no idea how you are going to be able to carry an AK pistol in any manner that is REMOTELY concealed and practical to quickly access.
2 In reference to the red text) Don't be a idiot and the likelihood of having problems drops significantly. 

#25 Black Flag

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:09 PM

I think according to the latest ATF update it's 15 rounds? Not clear whether or not mags fall under the preemption... may eventually have a test case, or the FCCA clarified. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

The ATF dictates Illinois Law? 

 

Please explain.


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#26 mic6010

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:30 PM

90 rounds fired and only two guys got wounded huh ? Yeah....sounds like you're relatively safe.

 

I stand by my previous statement, carry a pistol with a decent magazine capacity and learn how to use it.  If you're gonna be assassinated by gang members in a drive by or something you're probably not gonna see it coming anyways. Even if you did, by the time you realize you're being shot and get your gun into the fight whatever was gonna happen will have probably happened.

What do you think the scenario is gonna be like ? You're gonna get pinned behind a car or something and its gonna turn into Blackhawk Down ? Anecdotal news stories aside..reality suggests that most shootings last only a few rounds and are over within seconds. Speed of the draw and the ability to put rounds on target accurately while under stress is what counts.

Your question sounds more like a lack of confidence in your tools and your abilities and more gun isn't gonna fix that.

 

If you can't feel adequately armed walking down a street in America with a Glock 19 or something equivalent its time to move to different street like another member suggested.


"Living in Chicago, it used to be, 'don't go out at night,' or 'be more careful at night'. Now it's turned into a place where it doesn't matter if it's day or night."  - John Hendricks.


#27 InterestedBystander

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:11 AM

I think according to the latest ATF update it's 15 rounds? Not clear whether or not mags fall under the preemption... may eventually have a test case, or the FCCA clarified. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

The ATF dictates Illinois Law? 
 
Please explain.

I think that is still in the Chicago muni code. Perhaps waiting for a situation to be tested to see if mags fall within state preemtion.
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#28 Glock23

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:16 AM


I think according to the latest ATF update it's 15 rounds? Not clear whether or not mags fall under the preemption... may eventually have a test case, or the FCCA clarified. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


The ATF dictates Illinois Law? 
 
Please explain.

No, the ATF recently updated their info with applicable state and local laws, and it showed Chicago (or Cook Co, can't recall which) had a 15 round limit.

It was discussed here on the forum somewhere.

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#29 mrmagloo

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:37 AM

What do you constitute as a "firefight"? Seems like a firefight to me and I'm not trying to be cool or whatever you think. I don't know you or anyone else on this form so I can give two ***** about what you think. I just asked a logical question and I mentioned a Draco because they are the smallest ak-47's you can get. No doubt about it, I'll stick with a g19 and little back up kahr p.380 for self protection, just wanted to know if one can legally carry one. No harm done

 

This thread is taking a turn for the bizarre.  A number of experienced CC gun owners have offered a number of suggestions in response to your inquiry. Virtually ALL, has suggested that logistically, an AR pistol would be impractical for every day CC.  I mean, if you can't get your head around that, I'm not sure what else we can say? How can you possibly conceal it unless you are wearing a trench coat?  I mean, think about it? And, now you're lashing out at us?  If you don't agree with the feedback you got, I suggest you simply need go you own path and figure it out yourself.  Might think about body armor, as well.

 

The point is, no doubt we all sympathize with you.  I cannot imagine having to deal with such an environment, and it's a tragedy that more citizens don't stand up, and put these guys out of business. You cannot expect the LEO to do it, and at some point the community has to take responsibility for broken homes and latch key children with poor values and morals, that is fueling the epidemic.  Until folks come to grips with their failures, and admit their gangbanger kids are not the straight A students they delude themselves to believe, nothing will ever change.  Imho, take your neighborhood back or leave.  And, if you can't leave, I suggest you take every precaution you think is reasonable to protect yourself. 



#30 Chicago312

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:39 AM

What do you constitute as a "firefight"? Seems like a firefight to me and I'm not trying to be cool or whatever you think. I don't know you or anyone else on this form so I can give two ***** about what you think. I just asked a logical question and I mentioned a Draco because they are the smallest ak-47's you can get. No doubt about it, I'll stick with a g19 and little back up kahr p.380 for self protection, just wanted to know if one can legally carry one. No harm done

 
This thread is taking a turn for the bizarre.  A number of experienced CC gun owners have offered a number of suggestions in response to your inquiry. Virtually ALL, has suggested that logistically, an AR pistol would be impractical for every day CC.  I mean, if you can't get your head around that, I'm not sure what else we can say? How can you possibly conceal it unless you are wearing a trench coat?  I mean, think about it? And, now you're lashing out at us?  If you don't agree with the feedback you got, I suggest you simply need go you own path and figure it out yourself.  Might think about body armor, as well.
 
The point is, no doubt we all sympathize with you.  I cannot imagine having to deal with such an environment, and it's a tragedy that more citizens don't stand up, and put these guys out of business. You cannot expect the LEO to do it, and at some point the community has to take responsibility for broken homes and latch key children with poor values and morals, that is fueling the epidemic.  Until folks come to grips with their failures, and admit their gangbanger kids are not the straight A students they delude themselves to believe, nothing will ever change.  Imho, take your neighborhood back or leave.  And, if you can't leave, I suggest you take every precaution you think is reasonable to protect yourself.



Haha I don't know what you are talking about? And a trench coat, really? Have you seen how small a micro Draco is?
https://youtu.be/Jen2m-pmbmI

I noticed that every time I post something on here, there's vultures in here that exist only to taking shots and dissect every word, it's amusing to me. Guess you missed the part about sticking with a g19 and a little backup pistol.




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