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Walmart Concealed Carry prohibited sign


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#31 GcDm2010

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:10 PM

Wow are they really doing that ? Isn't that illegal to post one of those signs without permission ?

Remember, Laws don't apply to liberals, especially when it involves, in their mind, "safety" or the environment.

#32 HeavyDuty

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

Wow are they really doing that ? Isn't that illegal to post one of those signs without permission ?

Remember, Laws don't apply to liberals, especially when it involves, in their mind, "safety" or the environment.


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#33 the_prez3

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:42 PM

Wal Mart has a policy to respect the individual and that includes concealed carry laws in each state. If one is posted at a store, I would contact the corporate office and inform them. The manager may be anti gun and not following corporate policy. Some of the policies are managers discretion and some not. It wouldn't surprise me if they ban their employees from carrying, their policy is to not confront anyone and I'm sure that will carry over to this.
I certainly would make my opinion on it known.

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#34 danbrew

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:07 PM

Confirmed posted at Matteson Walmart.

It seems that the sign is trying to allow customers to carry, but reminding employees and vendors that they are not allowed to carry, but I don't think the IL signage works that way.

If an IL 430 66/65 is posted at all, then as far as I know no one can carry under the FCCA, Walmart cannot make up their own ru;es about it.

And the sign is copyright walmart, so I'm assuming it was posted by walmart.

I will try to upload/post the image I have later.

Matt


Actually, I would dispute that statement. If Walmart or anybody else puts up a sign that looks like the ILCS sign but adds text to it, "Only applies to employees" or even "Copyright Walmart" or some such, it is not a legitimate sign and can be ignored. It seems a moot point as this situation sounds as if they're saying - or trying to say - employees can't carry. That's fine. They can do that - they can fire you if you work there and you carry and you can't claim that your carry permit is the justfication for carrying.

Now I wouldn't want to be the test case... but the ISP has published the required signage. That's the signage somebody needs to put up if they don't want you carrying there. If they put up a different sign, my non-lawyer two cents says it can be ignored.

#35 mjw45

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:57 AM

Link to sign (pdf) posted in original (#1) post.

Added here also for convenience-

Walmart prohibited sign

Matt
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#36 Tvandermyde

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:25 AM

Dave and Busters doesn't post, but won't serve you alcohol if they know you are carrying. Can Walmart make a rule like this, sure. the law allows them to have a say over employees. and this is what they are doing.

But it would be a good idea to call corporate and let them know the sign is a bit confusing to some people.
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#37 larryrxtx

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

IANAL, but if the sign in it's entirety is posted, correct size and text, it is a GFZ, regardless of the text above or below, Yes?????
If the text were within the borders of the approved signage specification, that would be a different story.

Edited by larryrxtx, 07 January 2014 - 09:51 AM.


#38 Bud

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:57 AM

I believe the signs will be coming down shortly
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#39 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:59 AM

1 ) I try to avoid Walmart when ever possible.

2 ) I will go out of my way to avoid any and all businesses that restrict MY rights, and I will do my best to avoid businesses that restrict the rights of others.

3 ) We beat the topic of sign alteration to a dead horse.

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#40 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:03 AM

Dave and Busters doesn't post, but won't serve you alcohol if they know you are carrying. Can Walmart make a rule like this, sure. the law allows them to have a say over employees. and this is what they are doing.

But it would be a good idea to call corporate and let them know the sign is a bit confusing to some people.

Well if they KNOW you are carrying, you are not doing a good job of it.

Maybe "confusing" is what it is meant to be? This way some people will disarm, and if anyone complains they can say "Oh no it is for employees only." I wonder if business even consider the loss of revenue.


When will we start up a campaign of non guns = no money marches? Get a group of volunteers, create a list, issue each volunteer 20 stores, speak to store managers and pass out no guns = no money cards, and next week switch the list. I truly believe if enough people carrying make it known that the store is losing revenue due to their policy they will change their policy. I also truly believe if we choose to simply ignore the store, they might never know their loss of revenue or why they are losing.

We could also do a letter writing campaign as well. That's be pretty easy to do, but postage would get pricey fast.

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#41 Tvandermyde

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:09 AM

Well if they KNOW you are carrying, you are not doing a good job of it.


CGS I disagree. Do I work at keeping my guns concealed, yes. but I prefer a strong-side carry of an intermediate sized 1911 or certain 9mm. Does the end of the barrel sometimes stick out from under a sweatshirt that rides up? yea. Do I try to dress with shirts and jackets and things that cover them up yes. But sometimes things happen. Not to mention D&B could ask patrons if they are carrying.
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

#42 mjw45

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

3 ) We beat the topic of sign alteration to a dead horse.


Could you please point me to the relevant threads?

All that I remember seeing pertained to sign size, not changing the wording.

Thanks,

Matt
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#43 Gamma

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:14 PM

If it's a notice to employees, put it in the employee area of the store.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#44 Pipedoc

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:05 PM

I have it on good authority that this will be up a the Joliet Wallyworld within the next few days. It is not known yet if it will be at the main entrance or in an area for employees only. It came from corporate and is intended for on duty employees and vendors. I'll post more if I hear more.

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#45 GAS3987

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:23 PM

If it's a notice to employees, put it in the employee area of the store.


Nothing like advertising to the public, "Please, target our employees. They have been disarmed for your convenience."

Also, my wife observed one of these at the Plano location today.

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#46 RoadyRunner

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

[purple]I wonder if a restaurant with <50% alcohol sales being required to post the ISP sign for their liquor license could also add 'this prohibition only applies to employees of the City of Chicago' to the top.[/purple]

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#47 j2dawson

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:41 PM

...Not to mention D&B could ask patrons if they are carrying.

Is it a crime to lie to a D&B employee?

#48 +P+

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:41 PM

I personally saw these signs posted today at the walmart in Geneseo, IL. I thought about taking a picture and posting on here, but forgot to o it on my way out.

Definitely a confusing sign, and I think that if they expect to have an issue with this, then they need to make an announcement to their employees and vendors off-line, not post it on the front door.

If they keep this up, I will stop shopping at any Wal-Mart.

#49 ChiGuy420

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

According to a friend of mine, Bridgeview Wal-Mart also has this sign up.

#50 sangiovese

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:11 PM

If it's a notice to employees, put it in the employee area of the store.

This seems like a sensible solution.

#51 lockman

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

The sign appears to me as non-compliant as the extra wording is not separated from the mandated 4X6 portion. Secondly, If taken at face value it states some FCCL's will be honored and others will not. I believe their intentions are good but their hasty signage is lacking in legal clarity. Cut them some slack I am sure it will resolve shortly.

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#52 Booxone

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

The Shorewood Walmart has the sign up

#53 William8004

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:28 PM

The Shorewood Walmart has the sign up


Does Walmart own the buildings or just lease?

#54 sangiovese

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

At the risk of stating the obvious, it appears this is a coordinated move by Chicago area Wal-Marts and not just a couple overzealous managers at individual stores. While it technically doesn't affect non-employees and non-vendors, I still don't like it.

#55 Gamma

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:35 PM

I guess they can do whatever they want even if they have a sign, they still can choose to have you arrested or not.

If they post legal signage, it's a prohibited area and violators are subject to arrest and prosecution, it's not at the discretion of the store at that point. Their discretion is whether to post the sign and make it a prohibited area (if not prohibited by statute). Illinois doesn't make it trespassing, it's a criminal offense.

If they post signage that doesn't meet the legal definition it's hard to say exactly what would happen. You could easily end up as the test case in front of a judge as to whether signage besides the specified sign is legally binding.

Edited by Gamma, 08 January 2014 - 03:35 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#56 chidiver

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

I think a call to Corporate by someone is in order. Why has this been done here, when no such "employee sign" is necessary in any other state. The way they've executed this puts their customers in a bad spot. By using the official signage as part of their "employee sign" they are potentially turning customers into criminals.

This smells like regional manager stupidity. If you want to prevent employees from carrying, make a unique sign that has no force of law in Illinois. By doing it this way...I wouldn't step into the store once I can carry. Too risky.

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#57 TyGuy

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:19 PM

Or just tell your employees. Do they need signs that say "Employees caugh doing X, Y, and Z will be fired." ?
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#58 Brad O.

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

I personally saw these signs posted today at the walmart in Geneseo, IL. I thought about taking a picture and posting on here, but forgot to o it on my way out.

Definitely a confusing sign, and I think that if they expect to have an issue with this, then they need to make an announcement to their employees and vendors off-line, not post it on the front door.

If they keep this up, I will stop shopping at any Wal-Mart.


Geneseo is just to the East Of the Quad Cities where I do plenty of shopping...not liking this at all.

#59 III

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

Corporate needs to be contacted and asked for a response. Regardless of whether or not the sign is technically legal in appearance, you are still at risk of prosecution should you enter.... I know I am not gonna be the guinea pig...

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#60 TyGuy

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

Call em and let us know III
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